We shouldn't cut/trade James Young for 2nd round picks or expiring contracts

[ahonui06]

Trading Young or cutting him would be sub-optimal, but realistically it might be the best option.  The C's have 16 players under guaranteed contract.  Someone has to get cut.

But here's the thing the pro-Young crowd has to realize: if you don't cut him, presumably you're picking up his option for next season, which has to be exercised in October.  And we have probably three more first round picks next season, a bunch of seconds, and eight other players with guaranteed deals next season.  So if he doesn't develop this year, you're running into the same problem next year, except now Young has zero trade value.

In my opinion, if you can't trade a big, then Young has to earn his spot.  If he can't beat out PJ3 for the spot, oh well.  We have a lot of picks forthcoming -- some aren't going to work out.  We should get used it.  On the flipside, hopefully we get some gems in there too, but we shouldn't keep Young around for two more seasons just because he was a 1st round pick last year.

Of course, I'd love for Young to show up to training camp and seize that roster spot, and a spot in the rotation.  But if he can't do it, then it's best to ship him to somewhere that has more patience for whatever they'll give us.

The one bad thing about James Young is his contract is guaranteed since he is a first round pick. That would be a cap hit for Boston. Another reason why he most likely wouldn't get cut outright.

We have 16 guaranteed players.  Cutting any one of them will be a "cap hit."  But we have to, since you can only have 15 players.  So that point is moot.

PJIII is a guaranteed contract but he isn't being paid by Boston. The Thunder are basically paying his contract. This is another financial reason PJIII seems most likely to be cut.

This is incorrect.  OKC sent Boston some money to cover a portion of PJ3's contract (not all of it), but he isn't being paid by OKC.  Boston has OKC's money.  They have to pay all 16 players on their roster barring a trade, and it's up to them to decide which of the 16 they release.

Semantics. You know what I meant. Boston is essentially paying nothing for PJIII and doesn't take a cap hit if they cut him.  All other 15 players currently on the roster would have financial repercussions for the team compared to PJIII.

If PJIII impresses in training camp and preseason Ainge will push harder for a trade, but in the end if nothing can be found, he will ultimately cut PJIII.

[Jon]

It's poor management to hold onto someone just because of their draft position. 

It's poor management to draft an 18 year old you know is going to be a project and then cut / dump him after only a year because he's not an every day NBA player yet.

Exactly.  While it's true as saltlover pointed out that some first rounders don't pan out, it's wildly premature to say that about Young.  The last thing we want to do is cut him and then let him blossom elsewhere. 

If anyone needs to be cut, it's someone who isn't part of the future and whose value isn't going to grow.  Someone like Evan Turner. 

[saltlover]

Trading Young or cutting him would be sub-optimal, but realistically it might be the best option.  The C's have 16 players under guaranteed contract.  Someone has to get cut.

But here's the thing the pro-Young crowd has to realize: if you don't cut him, presumably you're picking up his option for next season, which has to be exercised in October.  And we have probably three more first round picks next season, a bunch of seconds, and eight other players with guaranteed deals next season.  So if he doesn't develop this year, you're running into the same problem next year, except now Young has zero trade value.

In my opinion, if you can't trade a big, then Young has to earn his spot.  If he can't beat out PJ3 for the spot, oh well.  We have a lot of picks forthcoming -- some aren't going to work out.  We should get used it.  On the flipside, hopefully we get some gems in there too, but we shouldn't keep Young around for two more seasons just because he was a 1st round pick last year.

Of course, I'd love for Young to show up to training camp and seize that roster spot, and a spot in the rotation.  But if he can't do it, then it's best to ship him to somewhere that has more patience for whatever they'll give us.

The one bad thing about James Young is his contract is guaranteed since he is a first round pick. That would be a cap hit for Boston. Another reason why he most likely wouldn't get cut outright.

We have 16 guaranteed players.  Cutting any one of them will be a "cap hit."  But we have to, since you can only have 15 players.  So that point is moot.

PJIII is a guaranteed contract but he isn't being paid by Boston. The Thunder are basically paying his contract. This is another financial reason PJIII seems most likely to be cut.

This is incorrect.  OKC sent Boston some money to cover a portion of PJ3's contract (not all of it), but he isn't being paid by OKC.  Boston has OKC's money.  They have to pay all 16 players on their roster barring a trade, and it's up to them to decide which of the 16 they release.

Semantics. You know what I meant. Boston is essentially paying nothing for PJIII and doesn't take a cap hit if they cut him.  All other 15 players currently on the roster would have financial repercussions for the team compared to PJIII.

If PJIII impresses in training camp and preseason Ainge will push harder for a trade, but in the end if nothing can be found, he will ultimately cut PJIII.

Lets try this again.  The Celtics have to pay the full salary of each of their 16 players currently on their roster unless they trade someone away.  It has no more "financial repercussion" to release PJ3 than it does Young than it does Amir Johnson, frankly.  In each case, the Celtics would be paying someone not on their roster, but the amount of money they pay those 16 players in total wouldn't change.  It doesn't matter that cash was sent with PJ3.  You could easily consider that cash as compensation for the Celtics paying a player that they have to release because they got Jones.  Money, as they say, is fungible.

A hard decision will be made in October potentially.  I do think a trade happens with someone at the end of the day, but I do not think that Jones will be released because the C's got money with him.  That is somewhat indicative of the quality of player the league thinks PJ3 is, and should factor into expectations of his October performance.  But if PJ3 exceeds those expectations, then good for him, and the Celtics should keep the best 15 players.  And if that happens, my gut says Young will not be in those 15.

[ahonui06]

Trading Young or cutting him would be sub-optimal, but realistically it might be the best option.  The C's have 16 players under guaranteed contract.  Someone has to get cut.

But here's the thing the pro-Young crowd has to realize: if you don't cut him, presumably you're picking up his option for next season, which has to be exercised in October.  And we have probably three more first round picks next season, a bunch of seconds, and eight other players with guaranteed deals next season.  So if he doesn't develop this year, you're running into the same problem next year, except now Young has zero trade value.

In my opinion, if you can't trade a big, then Young has to earn his spot.  If he can't beat out PJ3 for the spot, oh well.  We have a lot of picks forthcoming -- some aren't going to work out.  We should get used it.  On the flipside, hopefully we get some gems in there too, but we shouldn't keep Young around for two more seasons just because he was a 1st round pick last year.

Of course, I'd love for Young to show up to training camp and seize that roster spot, and a spot in the rotation.  But if he can't do it, then it's best to ship him to somewhere that has more patience for whatever they'll give us.

The one bad thing about James Young is his contract is guaranteed since he is a first round pick. That would be a cap hit for Boston. Another reason why he most likely wouldn't get cut outright.

We have 16 guaranteed players.  Cutting any one of them will be a "cap hit."  But we have to, since you can only have 15 players.  So that point is moot.

PJIII is a guaranteed contract but he isn't being paid by Boston. The Thunder are basically paying his contract. This is another financial reason PJIII seems most likely to be cut.

This is incorrect.  OKC sent Boston some money to cover a portion of PJ3's contract (not all of it), but he isn't being paid by OKC.  Boston has OKC's money.  They have to pay all 16 players on their roster barring a trade, and it's up to them to decide which of the 16 they release.

Semantics. You know what I meant. Boston is essentially paying nothing for PJIII and doesn't take a cap hit if they cut him.  All other 15 players currently on the roster would have financial repercussions for the team compared to PJIII.

If PJIII impresses in training camp and preseason Ainge will push harder for a trade, but in the end if nothing can be found, he will ultimately cut PJIII.

Lets try this again.  The Celtics have to pay the full salary of each of their 16 players currently on their roster unless they trade someone away.  It has no more "financial repercussion" to release PJ3 than it does Young than it does Amir Johnson, frankly.  In each case, the Celtics would be paying someone not on their roster, but the amount of money they pay those 16 players in total wouldn't change.  It doesn't matter that cash was sent with PJ3.  You could easily consider that cash as compensation for the Celtics paying a player that they have to release because they got Jones.  Money, as they say, is fungible.

A hard decision will be made in October potentially.  I do think a trade happens with someone at the end of the day, but I do not think that Jones will be released because the C's got money with him.  That is somewhat indicative of the quality of player the league thinks PJ3 is, and should factor into expectations of his October performance.  But if PJ3 exceeds those expectations, then good for him, and the Celtics should keep the best 15 players.  And if that happens, my gut says Young will not be in those 15.

The major difference is that PJIII only has 1 year remaining on his deal of $2.0M

The other potential bubble candidates for being cut are Young who is due $1.8M this year with team options for the next 2 years. I don't see Boston giving up on Young after 1 season especially considering his age.

PJIII will be 24 when the season starts and Young will only be 20. 4 years is a big difference.

[PhoSita]

It's poor management to hold onto someone just because of their draft position. 

It's poor management to draft an 18 year old you know is going to be a project and then cut / dump him after only a year because he's not an every day NBA player yet.

Exactly.  While it's true as saltlover pointed out that some first rounders don't pan out, it's wildly premature to say that about Young.  The last thing we want to do is cut him and then let him blossom elsewhere. 

If anyone needs to be cut, it's someone who isn't part of the future and whose value isn't going to grow.  Someone like Evan Turner.

[PhoSita]

Yes, but it's poorer management to make a bad decision now for the purpose of not acknowledging another bad decision you made last year.

How in the world can they know it was a bad decision just a year later?  This isn't a Fab Melo situation.  Young is . . . . young.  We knew that from the start.  We drafted a guy who barely learned anything about playing basketball, or anything else, in college.  He's not even 20 yet.  We won't know if it was a pick worth making until his rookie deal is almost up.

Drafting a guy like Young is an acknowledgement that you won't know for sure what you're getting until a few years later.  You've got to be prepared to ride out the development process, or else you might as well not make the pick in the first place.

It would be idiotic to dump him now in favor of a 21 year old beanpole with no clear role or position.

[adam.jones614]

I think there will be a trade so it won't matter. Ultimately I think it will most likely be Morris the way things are shaking out.

But if no trade were to occur, Perry Jones is just flat out more talented than young and hasn't had a chance to develop in OKC so I think he gets the nod

[loco_91]

Sure, he's still young. But I would've liked to see a lot more development out of him at this point, after a year with professional coaching. He was downright awful in SL-- and not just because his shots were falling, he was just bad. And last season, even at the end of the season, he was bad. I don't think we should give him up for nothing, but realistically the odds that he becomes a starting-caliber player are not great at this point, and people who still think he can be a star are just dreaming. Let's get value for him while we still can.

[MJohnnyboy]

I think there will be a trade so it won't matter. Ultimately I think it will most likely be Morris the way things are shaking out.

But if no trade were to occur, Perry Jones is just flat out more talented than young and hasn't had a chance to develop in OKC so I think he gets the nod

  Based off of what exactly? A three game stretch?

Technically Young has had less time to develop here than Jones did in OKC.

I'd wait until pre-season to determine who is better than whom, and this is coming from someone whos optimistic about PJII.

[greece66]

It's poor management to hold onto someone just because of their draft position. 

It's poor management to draft an 18 year old you know is going to be a project and then cut / dump him after only a year because he's not an every day NBA player yet.

Exactly.  While it's true as saltlover pointed out that some first rounders don't pan out, it's wildly premature to say that about Young.  The last thing we want to do is cut him and then let him blossom elsewhere. 

If anyone needs to be cut, it's someone who isn't part of the future and whose value isn't going to grow.  Someone like Evan Turner.

Hey that was my signature gif!

[greece66]

Btw, the conversation here has gone bonkers.

IMHO there is no way Young is getting cut, but there is no reason to bypass basic politeness when interacting with fellow Celtics.

[2short]

A trade is going to solve the problem anyways.  Young could be part of it.  Yes young is young and has potential.  This years sl he was bad.  Think of all the young guys albeit older than James who looked so much better.  His one positive skill set from last year his outside shooting was bad. 

He might not get cut but he has to play much better and show something positive. 

[adam.jones614]

I think there will be a trade so it won't matter. Ultimately I think it will most likely be Morris the way things are shaking out.

But if no trade were to occur, Perry Jones is just flat out more talented than young and hasn't had a chance to develop in OKC so I think he gets the nod

  Based off of what exactly? A three game stretch?

Technically Young has had less time to develop here than Jones did in OKC.

I'd wait until pre-season to determine who is better than whom, and this is coming from someone whos optimistic about PJII.

I'm not even saying he is "better". I just IMO believe he has more talent than james young and far more potential even though he is older

[Lucky17]

Everyday I keep seeing ideas in this forum for trading James Young or cutting him because he's a scrub.

Really? Guess I've been frequenting here during the wrong times of the day. Until this thread, I've never seen anyone suggest dumping Young for a 2nd or cutting him outright. Straw man?

[rollie mass]

as well as perry111 potential ,size and athleticism, young has competition from rj
-if rj has a good camp and with all the upcoming future draft choices if young is used in trade with someone isn't that the best result-
there seem to be  quite a few shooters from that draft that have been moved around, of course at this point they are older
-so rj and pj might be the depth charges that shape the roster-or maybe young will take his career into his own hands and have an excellent pre season