Pelton Gave Our Off-Season a B (so far)

[boscel33]

If we had tanked two years ago, who would you have taken ahead of Smart? The only guy I would say is Wiggins, but other than that you have Parker (torn ACL - let's see how he comes back), Gordon (hasn't shown much other than an athletic defender with some explosion), Exum (nothing about him makes me think he'll be a better pro that Smart), and a guy a lot of people here wanted in Embiid (who may never play in this league).

That's a fascinating point. I would probably still prefer Parker and Wiggins, but Smart is as good of a prospect at this point as the other guys on that list.

Smart is a bit of a spaz on drives, but at least he is not passive. Is it easier to correct passivity or help a player see the game slower and react more in control?

I think it is a lot closer between Parker and Smart than many would have thought it would be at this point. Sure it's easy to say now given the injury to Parker, but this is why you don't tank. To me, Embiid is a player I want nothing to do with. The foot injuries he's had are not much different than guys like Yao Ming and Bill Walton to name a few. Those guys were NEVER the same after their initial break. Now are are talking two without every playing in the NBA. Again, that's why you don't tank.

In regards to being passive or spastic, let me ask you this. Russell Westbrook is a very spastic. Deron Williams is a very passive player. Talent level aside, whose personality is better suited to the NBA? Give me Westbrook all day. Now don't get me wrong, Smart isn't Westbrook, but he's a lot closer to Westbrook than he is Williams in terms of personality. Many rookies play "too fast" early on. That's part of the game. From my experience, slowing down is a lot easier than speeding up.

I would still have gone Parker, in only the fact that I believe our biggest weakness is still a scoring SF.  It was back then and still is now.  They could have then spun around and grabbed Tyler Ennis as the PG to solve any problems with moving Rondo later in the year. 

[Evantime34]

Seems generous.

I don't think Danny deserves that much credit for simply treading water while maintaining future flexibility.

Aren't Lee and Johnson upgrades though? I think treading water deserves a C, but adding guys who make you better now while retaining flexibility bumps it up to a B.

[krich1187]

How are guys getting injured a referendum on tanking? It's not like anyone could predict that Jabari would get severely injured and Smart wouldn't.

What I am trying to say is tanking is a HUGE risk. You're alienating your current players, coaches, fans, and management. All for a CHANCE at a once-in-a-generation player. Tanking in itself doesn't always result in the top pick (hello Cleveland). I would much rather see the team put out its best product possible, and let the chips fall as they may. That way instead of relying on ONE player, you have a ROSTER of capable players. Sure the Spurs have Duncan, but outside of him, where did they draft everyone else? How about the Warriors? The Hawks?

Take a look back at the last 20 years '95-'15 - how many championships between those #1 picks? Duncan and LeBron are really the only draft picks that result in championships. Duncan is the only one who did it with the team who drafted him. Granted, guys on their could still win as they are still early in their careers. If the goal is a championship, and tanking is the route that you're going to take, the ONLY acceptable result is a championship. Now not all teams in the last 20 years tanked, but here they are...tell me who was/is worth tanking for?

'95 Joe Smith, '96 Allen Iverson, '97 Tim Duncan, '98 Michael Olowokandi, '99 Elton Brand, '00 Kenyon Martin, '01 Kwame Brown, '02 Yao Ming, '03 LeBron James, '04 Dwight Howard, '05 Andrew Bogut, '06 Andrea Bargnani, '07 Greg Oden, '08 Derrick Rose, '09 Blake Griffin, '10 John Wall, '11 Kyrie Irving, '12 Anthony Davis, '13 Anthony Bennett, '14 Andrew Wiggins, '15 Karl Towns.

Let's ignore from '14 - '15 because it's too early on those guys. Anthony Davis might be the only guy on that list aside from Duncan and LeBron who were worth tanking for.

[PhoSita]

Seems generous.

I don't think Danny deserves that much credit for simply treading water while maintaining future flexibility.

There he is! I was wondering when you were going to show up PhoSita! 

If the Celtics win more games than last year and their young players show improvement, would that be more than treading water?

I tend to think that would have been the outcome even if Danny had really just kept what he had before, i.e. did nothing but re-sign Bass, Jerebko, and Crowder and use his picks where they were originally slotted in the draft.

Signing Amir instead of Bass and trading for Lee probably improves the team a little bit, but not in any lasting way.  The young guys may or may not improve, but that won't be due to anything Danny did this summer.

Indeed, if Danny fails to move some of the excess -- Bradley, Turner, Sullinger -- his inaction might hinder the development of the younger players more than it helps it.



From my viewpoint, nothing Danny did this summer really changed the status of the team, he just maintained, while picking up a couple of veterans on larger 1 year contracts who may help the team win a few more games or serve as salary matching pieces on the off-chance a major deal happens.

Overall, I wouldn't call it a bad off-season exactly, because I don't think Danny hurt the team when all things are considered. 

I do question the wisdom of prioritizing adding big "expiring" contracts and remaining "respectable" (i.e. mediocre).  My preference, as I have stated plenty of times before, would have been to double down on youth and prepare for another development year, with the likely  reward of a top 10 draft pick.

[krich1187]

Seems generous.

I don't think Danny deserves that much credit for simply treading water while maintaining future flexibility.

Aren't Lee and Johnson upgrades though? I think treading water deserves a C, but adding guys who make you better now while retaining flexibility bumps it up to a B.

I don't see how making the playoffs, and improving on that team, while adding young potential is treading water.

Is there an easy button for convincing a team to trade their best player? Or one for them not to match offers on restricted free agents? Milwaukee got Monroe because they built a team that is better than ours. They've also had a longer period of not being competitive that helped them to do so. As far as the draft, he attempted to move up. Didn't happen even with a pretty ridiculous offer. If you're selling something, you need someone buying. That hasn't happened. I think Danny is prepared for a lot of different scenarios. Ideally, I believe he is hoping for a James Harden type scenario.

[krich1187]

Seems generous.

I don't think Danny deserves that much credit for simply treading water while maintaining future flexibility.

There he is! I was wondering when you were going to show up PhoSita! 

If the Celtics win more games than last year and their young players show improvement, would that be more than treading water?

I tend to think that would have been the outcome even if Danny had really just kept what he had before, i.e. did nothing but re-sign Bass, Jerebko, and Crowder and use his picks where they were originally slotted in the draft.

Signing Amir instead of Bass and trading for Lee probably improves the team a little bit, but not in any lasting way.  The young guys may or may not improve, but that won't be due to anything Danny did this summer.

Indeed, if Danny fails to move some of the excess -- Bradley, Turner, Sullinger -- his inaction might hinder the development of the younger players more than it helps it.



From my viewpoint, nothing Danny did this summer really changed the status of the team, he just maintained, while picking up a couple of veterans on larger 1 year contracts who may help the team win a few more games or serve as salary matching pieces on the off-chance a major deal happens.

Overall, I wouldn't call it a bad off-season exactly, because I don't think Danny hurt the team when all things are considered. 

I do question the wisdom of prioritizing adding big "expiring" contracts and remaining "respectable" (i.e. mediocre).  My preference, as I have stated plenty of times before, would have been to double down on youth and prepare for another development year, with the likely  reward of a top 10 draft pick.

You can look at development in two ways. Who has developed with the 76ers? They gutted their team in order to play their young guys, and it hasn't worked AT ALL. MCW is gone. Noel is still an offensive liability. Embiid hasn't been in the NBA. Saric hasn't played in the NBA. Who on the 76ers is teaching guys how to succeed in the NBA?

Sometimes developing a player can be about playing time as much as it can be about exposing them to what makes a successful NBA player. Showing up on time, practicing hard, being a professional. Lee by all accounts was a professional when he was replaced by Draymond Green. Had he not been, they may not have won that championship. Amir Johnson is noted as one of the harder workers in the league. Those things matter just as much to development as playing time. With Brad, he doesn't appear to play vets over young guys. A guy like Smart earned his, a guy like James Young didn't, yet. Kawhi Leonard was a 15th pick - he was brought along in a winning culture, slowly. Now he is one of the top young players in the league.

[PhoSita]

Seems generous.

I don't think Danny deserves that much credit for simply treading water while maintaining future flexibility.

Aren't Lee and Johnson upgrades though? I think treading water deserves a C, but adding guys who make you better now while retaining flexibility bumps it up to a B.

See what I wrote above, but simply doing no harm doesn't earn better than a C for me, and while I think Lee and Amir make the team a bit better in the short term, that's a double edged sword. 

They take playing time that could be given to younger guys who may have a future with the team (or with a team that likes them and trades for them), and they hurt the Celts' draft pick.


If Ainge's draft picks outperform where they were selected and Danny uses Lee and / or Amir's deals to swing a trade that upgrades the roster long term, then I'll change my assessment. 

Simply winning a handful more games without hurting the cap sheet beyond this year doesn't do it for me.  That's the criteria I would use for a team that already has a strong core group in place and has designs on contention, not one rebuilding and still searching for a long term blueprint.

[max215]

The Nets are a Brook Lopez injury away from being one of the worst teams in the league.

I hate rooting for an injury, but...

IMO they're a Brook Lopez injury away from being THE worst team in the league.

[D Dub]

The Nets are a Brook Lopez injury away from being one of the worst teams in the league.

I hate rooting for an injury, but...

IMO they're a Brook Lopez injury away from being THE worst team in the league.

Haven't you been following the Lakers offseason?  Man are they terrible, it's great. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

The Nets are a Brook Lopez injury away from being one of the worst teams in the league.

I hate rooting for an injury, but...

IMO they're a Brook Lopez injury away from being THE worst team in the league.

Haven't you been following the Lakers offseason?  Man are they terrible, it's great. 

I don't think the Lakers will be any good, but I think you're vastly underrating that team... and that's saying something considering that I don't think they'll be any good.

The X-Factor will be Kobe of course more than anything.

But they have Roy Hibbert that will help defensively, they have Brandon Bass who should be solid for them, they acquired the 6th Man of the Year in Lou Williams

I think they can put together a 7-8 deep team that should be somewhat competent. But in the end it'll depend on Kobe, and I can't say anything with certainty when he's regarded.

[max215]

The Nets are a Brook Lopez injury away from being one of the worst teams in the league.

I hate rooting for an injury, but...

IMO they're a Brook Lopez injury away from being THE worst team in the league.

Haven't you been following the Lakers offseason?  Man are they terrible, it's great.

With Lopez, the Nets are better, without Lopez, the Nets are worse. The only other C on the Nets roster is a man by the name of Jerome Jordan; I have never heard of him before in my life. Odds are, if Lopez goes down, they're starting Bargniani at the 5. I think it's safe to say that any team startimg Andrea Bargniani likely has the worst roster in the leage. Furthermore, the Nets probably have the single most shallow roster in the NBA already.

[The One]

Don't have insider...they make enough money.


Does it include the Perry Jones trade?

I thought he might have liked that.

[D Dub]

The Nets are a Brook Lopez injury away from being one of the worst teams in the league.

I hate rooting for an injury, but...

IMO they're a Brook Lopez injury away from being THE worst team in the league.

Haven't you been following the Lakers offseason?  Man are they terrible, it's great. 

I don't think the Lakers will be any good, but I think you're vastly underrating that team... and that's saying something considering that I don't think they'll be any good.

The X-Factor will be Kobe of course more than anything.

But they have Roy Hibbert that will help defensively, they have Brandon Bass who should be solid for them, they acquired the 6th Man of the Year in Lou Williams

I think they can put together a 7-8 deep team that should be somewhat competent. But in the end it'll depend on Kobe, and I can't say anything with certainty when he's regarded.

From what I've seen of Kobe these last three years, he hurts them just as much on the floor as he does on the DL.  His defense no longer exists, will never rotate and then scream at the next guy in the rotation as if its part of the LA's scheme to never let him guard on-ball. 

But what really kills that team, in my opinion, is their coaching and lack of basketball identity. 

They are pretty much an isolation team full of lazy defenders, but this year they let their two best defenders go (Davis, Johnson).  Roy Hibbert is going to hate life trying to close out on who ever is drawing Lou Williams, Nick Young, Kobe, Clarkson or even the rookie on defense.  Randle is another one who can't switch on D.  When it comes down to it, Brandon Bass probably becomes their de facto small forward.  I think even bad NBA offenses will light them up. 
 
Seems like a rudderless ship at the moment. 

[clover]

http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/13289657/nba-pelton-eastern-conference-offseason-grades

He noted that Mickey looked like our best rookie, and he is not sure how Lee works in our "suddenly crowded" frontcourt. He also likes the Crowder signing.

Pelton does not like the Nets off-season and tends to think they will be in the lottery next year .

I agree with that grade (so far). We have made the most of our picks and salary for the time being.

I don't know if Mickey's the best but I think it's fair to say he looked just as solid as Rozier and Hunter.

Nets are a lottery team.  been saying that right along.  anyone thinking otherwise just because they made the playoffs isn't paying attention to the rest of the Eastern conference.  (same could be said for people claiming the C's to be a playoff team).

Crowder signing was a no-brainer.  thin at SF and could ill afford to have our best one (even though he's a bench-quality SF) leave.

Lee's an upgrade over who we have.  question is how much of an upgrade, is he worth the cost and who loses minutes in a rotation that only lost Bass, added Amir and still has Sully, KO, Zeller and Jonas.  Nevermind adding Mickey.

This. The Nets lost Williams, Teletovic, Blake, Plumlee, and Anderson and added Bargnani, Robinson, Larkin, and RHJ. Not exactly revamping the roster. I'm flabbergasted by the fans here who actually think the Nets will make the playoffs but the Celtics won't. I'm not 100% confident the Celtics will make the playoffs again this season because the east should be better, but I know darn well they'll be better than the Nets. Not to mention the Nets' season hinges on Brook Lopez staying healthy. If he gets hurt, there goes the season, and that pick becomes a top 5 pick in the draft.

However, I think the team in the east that has had the worst off-season is Charlotte. All of their moves in my eyes were puzzling at the very least.
-Trading Stephenson for Spencer Hawes. I know Stephenson was a bad apple on the Hornets, but you can pay him to stay away from the team and then decline his team option for next year and he's gone, but instead the Hornets opted to trade him for someone who was also pretty bad last year whose contract is 3/4 as bad and twice as long.
-Rejecting the Celtics monster offer to draft Frank Kaminsky. If they had taken Winslow that would have been fine, but Kaminsky to me is your ideal 3rd big on a championship team and that's if he pans out. You'd pass up 6 1st-round draft picks for that? Winslow on the other hand could be your starting wing on a championship team. Not to mention the Hornets have Jefferson, Hawes, and Zeller already playing Kaminsky's position. Where's he going to find minutes?
-Trading Vonleh and Henderson for Batum. I understand Vonleh was a disappointment last year but players in the past have shown they aren't ready their first year in the league and then take off a few years down the line. I'm not saying Vonleh will do that but there's no need to give up on a rookie so soon. More importantly why trade him for a guy who was also a disappointment last year with Batum? Even if Batum has a rebound season, he's expiring after this year and will get paid handsomely if he does thanks to the cap rising. Whose to say he won't leave Charlotte if that happens? Also, if you want a wing so badly, WHY NOT JUST GET WINSLOW AT 1/10TH OF THE PRICE?!!!

They made all these moves in the hopes of returning to the playoffs. Whoopty frikkin doo. So, just to summarize, the Hornets passed up on developing potential studs like Noah Vonleh and Justice Winslow to overpay Spencer Hawes and rent Nicolas Batum.

The Charlotte Hornets everybody!

Could be worse though. They could be the Sacramento Kings. Then again, the Kings atleast have a top-10 player in Cousins to make up for their front office woes.

agree with a lot of this.

Nets won't be close to the playoffs regardless of Lopez' health.  C's will be better than them - question is will they be good enough to fight for an 8th seed.  C's aren't better than anyone that finished better than them last year (that's 6 teams right there).  Miami is a better team with everyone healthy.  that's 7.  Question is did Indy (or possibly Detroit or even Charlotte) do enough to improve to pass the C's.  I think at least one of them will. 

Charlotte's run by a bunch of idiots.  thought they'd do better than the C's until the Batum trade.  Hawes for Stephenson I get just to clear the lockerroom.  If they're all healthy there, they could possibly be better than the C's. 
The Kaminsky pick is reeks of Jordan's incompetence in the draft. 
- the guy will be lucky to be as good as KO
- winslow and turner were still available and both figure to be much better players than kaminsky
- 6 (!!) picks turned down.  that's just stupid.  Kaminsky may be considered readier to make an impact this season but they could have had Portix/Rozier and Hunter and they all look like they're ready to play some rotation minutes.  They could have had Mickey too not to mention the future picks.  unbelievably dumb.  who knows, maybe kaminsky slides all the way to 16 if Charlotte doesn't pick him.

Giving up on Vonleh was crazy--he's younger than James Young.

[KG Living Legend]

I give Pelton an F!