couldn't disagree more.

Doc didn't play young players unless he had no choice in the matter.  Every single case of a young player getting minutes under Doc is because Doc didn't have a vet to put on the floor instead.

This topic came up constantly when Doc was here and I'd always ask the people defending Doc the same question that could never be answered --> name a veteran player who was sat on the bench behind a young player so they would get playing time.  never happened.

Shockingly Brad Stevens has not managed to develop the next Larry Bird in a whole 2 years of coaching.

It may take a while to see where these guys end up, but Evan Turner and Tyler Zeller looked much better under Stevens than under previous coaches. Even guys like Isaiah Thomas and Jae Crowder were at least allowed to play to their strengths to a greater degree.

It would be nice to see more development from the guys we drafted. I think it's fair to ask how Stevens handles player development if you have a guy like Smart who doesn't seem to exactly fit in to the type of player Stevens wants. It seems like the C's organization sometimes tries to force guys into a mold.

Honestly Sullinger seemed to improve the most in his first season preinjury, when Doc was the coach, but I think that has the most to do with his complacency. That could be the coach or the player or a combination.

It should be said that the system Brad Stevens employs does not exactly lend itself to individual players consistently putting up really flashy numbers.

Brad may also be the kind of coach who is really good at getting the most out of the pieces you put in front of him collectively, but who does not necessarily excel at building up prospects into star players.

I was reading a comment on Jeff’s front page post about what big names could the Celtics be targeting.  The comment was on player development and how Brad Stevens has done a much better job of this than Doc did.

I think I have to completely disagree.  Here are some players that were developed under Doc:
Rondo (21st overall) – 4x all star
Kendrick Perkins (27th overall) – starting center on a championship team type player
Al Jefferson (15th overall) – in his third (and last) season with us, he was averaging 16/11 on 51% shooting.  Went on to average 21ppg his next season in Minn.
Tony Allen (25th overall) – starter on a championship contender type player
Delonte West (24th overall) – serviceable role player

Doc actually did an excellent job developing these “purgatory picks” into solid NBA talent.  Names like Delonte, Tony, Kendrick might not overwhelm you, but often times guys in that range of picks don't even get a second NBA contract.

Who has Brad Stevens developed?  I have to give Brad more time, but in two years, I haven’t seen nearly the amount of development in Sullinger, Olynyk, AB, or Smart that I’d like to have.  When you have 4 players like that picked in the 6-20 range and all the playing time in the world to hand out to them, you’ve gotta develop at least one of them into a player who a non-celtic fan would bet even money on having at least one all-star appearance in his career.

That said, I’m still hopeful that in more time the Celtics organization will develop some of this young talent.  But I don’t think it’s accurate to say that Brad is better at developing young talent Doc was.  Doc had a reputation for not playing young players, but maybe it made them work their butts off for that playing time (AB, Glen Davis) which helped them become more than they originally would have.

Al Jefferson was injured in his first two years and often out of shape while still showing flashes of of what he could be. Kendrick Perkins was on the bench 90%  of the time (probably an exaggeration, but that's what it felt like) of the first 3 years of his career. It wasn't until Clifford Ray showed up prior to the 06-07 season that they really started to develop their game. Though Perkins did work on shaping his body throughout those first three years, and Jefferson publicly noted to change his diet and hired a personal chef to improve his physical conditioning prior to his breakout season. So, I don't give credit to Doc for that.

Perkins only broke into the starting lineup because their was no one else to put there after Mark Blount was gone when the Big Three era began. Rondo was able to develop in his rookie year when injuries forced Doc to play him bigger minutes, and he continued to develop enough by his second season to start on a team with three future Hall of Famers (but still had limited control during games because Doc could only trust him so much). By the time Doc had his championship team, both of those guys knew Doc's system, and were smart enough to learn Thib's defense, and were able to follow the lead of three guys who were at the top of their games. So for them, I would say it was a right place at the right time.

But they did develop under Doc to some degree.

CBS has done a great job of putting a team on the court that can play in his system as a team and within their game. His development style is to show them what they need to work on, and have them focus on those areas in the offseason or in D-League. Is James Young a success? Not yet, and he may not be. But CBS can only show the players what they need to do, he can't do it for them. The same goes for Sully, KO, Smart, Zeller, and the new rookies. But he does put them in a position to succeed if they work for it. They all have a chance to earn a spot.

He has guidance for all of them and depending on how hard they work, and how well they play in practice and in games, he will give them bigger roles. Zeller earned his role last year. So did Smart. Sully did too before his weight caused him to miss games (the broken foot issue). KO did in stretches but his issues were as much mental as physical, and he would be too passive on his shot. Sully has immaturity issues that CBS cannot fix, that has to come from Sully. James Young has confidence issues in real games. He had size issues as well as defensive lapses. But he is working on his game so the jury is still out on him.

Under Doc, earning a spot required a level of veteranship. They had to pay their dues AND earn their spot in practice. CBS does not have that, perhaps because he never played professionally.

So, to sum up I do think that CBS is good at developing talent. He just needs talent to develop, and time to develop it.

All indications are that Brad can develop talent.

First, look at his Butler runs. That right there is proof the guy can develop talent.

Now look at the rosters for the last 2 years and the stats of the players.  Just about every single player under Brad has had career years or played better then they had the previous year not under Brad.

Too early to tell but every indication is yes, he can develop talent, and more importantly, he knows how to get the most out of players.

Quote from: slamtheking on July 14, 2015, 11:25:17 AM

This topic came up constantly when Doc was here and I'd always ask the people defending Doc the same question that could never be answered --> name a veteran player who was sat on the bench behind a young player so they would get playing time.  never happened.

Happened all the time. Sam Cassell, Eddie House, Michael Olowokandi, and Troy Murphy, to name a few. In fact, it's probably harder to name young players they didn't get minutes that they deserved to play.

The fact remains that most of the high-profile prospects from the Doc Rivers regime ended up serviceable NBA players, so he must have been doing something right.

iirc, Cassell got a lot of playing time at PG over Rondo down the stretch of games that year.
Eddie House got plenty of time -- who was the young player you're claiming got minutes ahead of him? 
Kandiman was toast and shouldn't have been collecting a paycheck at all but who's the young player taking minutes from him?
Murphy got a ton of playing time he didn't deserve in the hopes he still had something left.  he wasn't being sat in favor of anyone young when he was acquired.

Let me ask you a question, why pose this question? Why ask if Brad is good at developing talent? Fact, Brad is one of the best coaches in the league and will be with the Celtics as long as he desires. Why question Brad's developmental skills, what is to gain from this? If someone on this blog agrees that Brad is not good at developing talent..nothing will change. If someone on this blog disagrees and thinks Brad is good at developing talent..nothing changes. Why was this thread started? Just trying to find another negative path to go down? Brad is one of the few things the Celtics have going for them right now, why do you have to try and ruin it?