Yes or No? Marcus Smart Our Next Superstar?

[LarBrd33]

Fwiw, Julius Randle looked ok out there today considering he's coming off an injury (10 points in 20 minutes... looking fluid).   Interesting to note that DeAngelo Russell and Karl Towns played ok, but the game was dominated by Zach LaVine (24 points) and Jordan Clarkson (23 points)...  Gee... that almost seems to back up my theory that returning to summer league after a year playing against NBA competition tends to result in better stats.  Who woulda thunk.

C'mon.  Randle was awful. 

I'm going to repeat myself one last time.  Randle's per-minute numbers in both summer league and preseason were better than Smart last year.  Ainge considered taking him over Smart in spite of the fact Rondo was likely out the door and we already had two young PF's in Olynyk and Sully.   Ainge admitted that Randle was more talented.  Ainge tried trading for Randle even after his injury.    I'm NOT suggesting that Randle is better than Smart right now.  Randle is coming off a BROKEN LEG and was just cleared for 5 on 5 drills a couple weeks ago.  But a year from now, I don't think it's a guarantee that Marcus Smart will be more valuable than Julius Randle.   Randle is a beast.  He's going to be a really good player in this league.   I had him above Smart on my board last year.  We'll see what happens.  Obviously, I hope Smart ends up vastly superior.  I'm not losing my mind over 2 summer league games after Smart spent a year in the NBA, though.  He's supposed to look better at this point.

There was no need to repeat yourself.  I read it the first time.  My points still stand.  You are being stubborn.  You were in favor of Randle and against Smart before the 2014 draft.  You are making excuses for Smart's strong performances and excuses for at least Randle's horrendous performance yesterday.  I can excuse Randle's one game after injury, but it's ok to give Smart his due credit and admit he's doing really well and is maybe perhaps better than you originally thought.

I'm giving Smart his credit.  I hope the teams that turned down Marcus Smart trade offers this offseason are watching closely and starting to believe that he can actually develop into a superstar.  His performances have been very encouraging.

I still doubt he'll ever be an all-star.  You alright with that?

[D.o.s.]

No. He's obviously going to be the best point guard in the history of the NBA and if you say otherwise you're a hater and probably not a true fan anyway so why not go to the 76ers forum you big jerk you.

LB you are totes wrong about Randle though... he's not going to hit the "really good player" milestone, IMO YMMV.

[knuckleballer]

Fwiw, Julius Randle looked ok out there today considering he's coming off an injury (10 points in 20 minutes... looking fluid).   Interesting to note that DeAngelo Russell and Karl Towns played ok, but the game was dominated by Zach LaVine (24 points) and Jordan Clarkson (23 points)...  Gee... that almost seems to back up my theory that returning to summer league after a year playing against NBA competition tends to result in better stats.  Who woulda thunk.

C'mon.  Randle was awful. 

I'm going to repeat myself one last time.  Randle's per-minute numbers in both summer league and preseason were better than Smart last year.  Ainge considered taking him over Smart in spite of the fact Rondo was likely out the door and we already had two young PF's in Olynyk and Sully.   Ainge admitted that Randle was more talented.  Ainge tried trading for Randle even after his injury.    I'm NOT suggesting that Randle is better than Smart right now.  Randle is coming off a BROKEN LEG and was just cleared for 5 on 5 drills a couple weeks ago.  But a year from now, I don't think it's a guarantee that Marcus Smart will be more valuable than Julius Randle.   Randle is a beast.  He's going to be a really good player in this league.   I had him above Smart on my board last year.  We'll see what happens.  Obviously, I hope Smart ends up vastly superior.  I'm not losing my mind over 2 summer league games after Smart spent a year in the NBA, though.  He's supposed to look better at this point.

There was no need to repeat yourself.  I read it the first time.  My points still stand.  You are being stubborn.  You were in favor of Randle and against Smart before the 2014 draft.  You are making excuses for Smart's strong performances and excuses for at least Randle's horrendous performance yesterday.  I can excuse Randle's one game after injury, but it's ok to give Smart his due credit and admit he's doing really well and is maybe perhaps better than you originally thought.

I'm giving Smart his credit.  I hope the teams that turned down Marcus Smart trade offers this offseason are watching closely and starting to believe that he can actually develop into a superstar.  His performances have been very encouraging.

I still doubt he'll ever be an all-star.  You alright with that?

No, you are supposed to admit he is the next great superstar.  Just kidding.

[oldtype]

Non-Celtic plays well:

   Aaron Gordon dominated again today with 21 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists and 3 steals with 8-11 shooting.  Dramatic improvement from last year when he averaged 8 points and 4 rebounds in summer league.  Great sign from the youngest leprechaun.

Celtic plays well:

You guys are funny.  It's like you've never heard of Summer league before.   Joe Forte won Summer league MVP one year.  Jerryd Bayless averaged 30.3 points in 2008.  Anthony Randolph averaged 26.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 2.3 steals and 3 blocks in 2009.  Reggie Williams averaged 22.6 points in 2010.   Josh Selby avearged 24.2 points, 3.2 assists and 2.4 steals in 2012.  Jeffery Taylor averaged 20.3 points and 1.8 steals in 2013.    Glen Rice Jr dominated summer league last year... avearging 25 points, 7.8 rebounds, 2.3 assists and 2.5 steals

Whatever man.

[TheFlex]

More or less ridiculous than asserting that Smart will be our next superstar because "the fans need hope" as your entire rationale?

Blatantly inaccurate understanding of my "entire rationale."

Considering I was working with:

Yes. The fans should have high hopes for him.

as your entire mission statement, I'm not so sure. Particularly considering the single word answer of "yes," complete with capitalization and a period, followed by a single explanation of "the fans should have high hopes" with no reason specified at all.

So,  you know, blatant misunderstandings can come from the interpretation but when the statement isn't couched in, well, anything, you're sort of leaving that open as a legitimate possibility, eh?

Regardless: why do you think the fans should have high hopes for Smart? Did your imaginary friend in the sky tell you they should? Did someone bribe you to post it? Were there threats of violence if  you didn't? What was your rationale for answering yes?

You're trying to erase the line between "The fans should be happy that Smart is showing such progress" and "To ensure fan loyalty and satisfaction we must propagandize Smart and what he could be." They're two completely different things.

It's totally valid that you want to pick at my definition of superstar. The fluidity of that interpretation can deteriorate the debate. When I think of superstar I think of top 10 player, but I believe there's a few that stick out that may not have the offensive appeal to be appreciated as a consensus top 10 guy. I think Ron Artest's defensive impact elevated him to superstardom despite not having the ability to be a "no. 1 option," a term whose intrinsic biases in favor of offensive impact render that perceived inability irrelevant in rare cases such as Artest's. Other examples include Dennis Rodman (defense, rebounding) and Chauncey Billups (facilitating ability, court vision, leadership).

I think Marcus Smart will be an elite defensive force and perennial DPOY candidate and I believe advanced defensive statistics suggest the same. I'm on my phone and don't really feel like listing such statistics to a poster I know is capable enough of independently researching such data. I think this elite non-normative skill and generally recognized competitive fire merit comparisons to such unique superstars like Artest, Rodman and Billups. Now, all of these guys were at least above average offensive players; I also believe that Smart does have elite offensive skills like body control and strength, while possessing very good court vision. I believe he provided evidence that he can at least shoot at a league average rate from deep and should get a second chance to prove without the residual effects of a severe ankle sprain that he can get to the bucket and the line as advertised exiting OKST. I believe the combination of the two would easily allow him to float in the 15-20/5/5 range.

Again, to you that may not be a superstar, but I remain resistant to such hard and fast definitions. Smart has the ability to pair potentially generational defensive ability with very good offensive output, and could be instrumental in any championship run the Celtics make. For that, I'm very high on him.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Everyone, STOP IT. Tired of this crap.

Huh?

Being facetious. Real TP to you, verbal TPs to everyone else in the thread.

[kheldar52077]

Could be. I hope he will be someday. 

[tarheelsxxiii]

More or less ridiculous than asserting that Smart will be our next superstar because "the fans need hope" as your entire rationale?

Blatantly inaccurate understanding of my "entire rationale."

Considering I was working with:

Yes. The fans should have high hopes for him.

as your entire mission statement, I'm not so sure. Particularly considering the single word answer of "yes," complete with capitalization and a period, followed by a single explanation of "the fans should have high hopes" with no reason specified at all.

So,  you know, blatant misunderstandings can come from the interpretation but when the statement isn't couched in, well, anything, you're sort of leaving that open as a legitimate possibility, eh?

Regardless: why do you think the fans should have high hopes for Smart? Did your imaginary friend in the sky tell you they should? Did someone bribe you to post it? Were there threats of violence if  you didn't? What was your rationale for answering yes?

You're trying to erase the line between "The fans should be happy that Smart is showing such progress" and "To ensure fan loyalty and satisfaction we must propagandize Smart and what he could be." They're two completely different things.

It's totally valid that you want to pick at my definition of superstar. The fluidity of that interpretation can deteriorate the debate. When I think of superstar I think of top 10 player, but I believe there's a few that stick out that may not have the offensive appeal to be appreciated as a consensus top 10 guy. I think Ron Artest's defensive impact elevated him to superstardom despite not having the ability to be a "no. 1 option," a term whose intrinsic biases in favor of offensive impact render that perceived inability irrelevant in rare cases such as Artest's. Other examples include Dennis Rodman (defense, rebounding) and Chauncey Billups (facilitating ability, court vision, leadership).

I think Marcus Smart will be an elite defensive force and perennial DPOY candidate and I believe advanced defensive statistics suggest the same. I'm on my phone and don't really feel like listing such statistics to a poster I know is capable enough of independently researching such data. I think this elite non-normative skill and generally recognized competitive fire merit comparisons to such unique superstars like Artest, Rodman and Billups. Now, all of these guys were at least above average offensive players; I also believe that Smart does have elite offensive skills like body control and strength, while possessing very good court vision. I believe he provided evidence that he can at least shoot at a league average rate from deep and should get a second chance to prove without the residual effects of a severe ankle sprain that he can get to the bucket and the line as advertised exiting OKST. I believe the combination of the two would easily allow him to float in the 15-20/5/5 range.

Again, to you that may not be a superstar, but I remain resistant to such hard and fast definitions. Smart has the ability to pair potentially generational defensive ability with very good offensive output, and could be instrumental in any championship run the Celtics make. For that, I'm very high on him.

That's a fine post, especially from a phone. Real TP.

[LarBrd33]

...

Oldtype, you quoted something I said about Gordon in a fantasy basketball thread.   It's weird that you even found that quote.   Context, my man.  I called Alexey Shved a budding young star in that thread.  We all say a lot of tongue-in-cheek stuff there... like naming Gerald Wallace my team's captain last year.

But as I said a couple times in this thread, we shouldn't read into any major stats of 2nd year summer league players... whether it's Gordon, Exum, Smart, Furkan, etc...  Summer league is usually dominated by 2nd year players for a reason.  It doesn't mean Smart is on the verge of superstardom.  He's still go a long way to go.

That said, Gordon's progress is pretty impressive.  He's made clear improvements since we last saw him.   

[oldtype]

blah

blah

Oldtype, you quoted something I said about Gordon in a fantasy basketball thread.   It's weird that you even found that quote.   Context, my man.  I called Alexey Shved a budding young star in that thread.  I say a lot of tongue-in-cheek stuff there... like naming Gerald Wallace my team's captain last year.

But as I said a couple times in this thread, we shouldn't read into any major stats of 2nd year summer league players... whether it's Gordon, Exum, Smart, Furkan, etc...  Summer league is usually dominated by 2nd year players for a reason.  It doesn't mean Smart is on the verge of superstardom.  He's still go a long way to go.

I apologize if the quote was poorly sourced, but the sentiment remains:

You're utterly boring, completely predictable, and contribute very little to most discussions beyond zeroing in on the least intelligent positive thing anyone in the thread has said and stringing it up as a straw man to hide your unerring position of dour, dreadful negativity in a thin veneer of rationality.

I genuinely feel like I can predict how you will react to each and every thread.

[LarBrd33]

blah

blah

Oldtype, you quoted something I said about Gordon in a fantasy basketball thread.   It's weird that you even found that quote.   Context, my man.  I called Alexey Shved a budding young star in that thread.  I say a lot of tongue-in-cheek stuff there... like naming Gerald Wallace my team's captain last year.

But as I said a couple times in this thread, we shouldn't read into any major stats of 2nd year summer league players... whether it's Gordon, Exum, Smart, Furkan, etc...  Summer league is usually dominated by 2nd year players for a reason.  It doesn't mean Smart is on the verge of superstardom.  He's still go a long way to go.

I apologize if the quote was poorly sourced, but the sentiment remains:

You're utterly boring, completely predictable, and contribute very little to most discussions beyond zeroing in on the least intelligent positive thing anyone in the thread has said and stringing it up as a straw man to hide your unerring position of dour, dreadful negativity in a thin veneer of rationality.

I genuinely feel like I can predict how you will react to each and every thread.

Cool.   Nice to meet you.  TP.

Anyways... I like what I saw from Smart in game 2.  Here's hoping he can continue to improve.

[tarheelsxxiii]

blah

blah

Oldtype, you quoted something I said about Gordon in a fantasy basketball thread.   It's weird that you even found that quote.   Context, my man.  I called Alexey Shved a budding young star in that thread.  I say a lot of tongue-in-cheek stuff there... like naming Gerald Wallace my team's captain last year.

But as I said a couple times in this thread, we shouldn't read into any major stats of 2nd year summer league players... whether it's Gordon, Exum, Smart, Furkan, etc...  Summer league is usually dominated by 2nd year players for a reason.  It doesn't mean Smart is on the verge of superstardom.  He's still go a long way to go.

I apologize if the quote was poorly sourced, but the sentiment remains:

You're utterly boring, completely predictable, and contribute very little to most discussions beyond zeroing in on the least intelligent positive thing anyone in the thread has said and stringing it up as a straw man to hide your unerring position of dour, dreadful negativity in a thin veneer of rationality.

I genuinely feel like I can predict how you will react to each and every thread.

Well that's overly combative.

He's generally right (minus Embiid), and contributes thoughtful posts. Get the impression others taken offense to his staunch positions, but that doesn't mean he isn't making solid contributions to discussions.

[LarBrd33]

I'm not disagreeing with that guy... he's got a valid point.  When someone makes a thread like this "is [insert random role player] a future superstar?" I'll predictably make a post casting doubt on it.   Sadly, I've had about 17 years of casting doubt on "is [insert random roleplayer] a future superstar?" and predictably have never been wrong.  Here's hoping Smart breaks the chain.   It can be boring.  I agree.  Since Pierce we're something like 1/40 on players drafted by the Celtics making an all-star team.  Joe Johnson was the only one.  I really hope Smart can break the cold streak, but I doubt it.  I think he'll be a fine player regardless.  Elite-level defender. 

[knuckleballer]

blah

blah

Oldtype, you quoted something I said about Gordon in a fantasy basketball thread.   It's weird that you even found that quote.   Context, my man.  I called Alexey Shved a budding young star in that thread.  I say a lot of tongue-in-cheek stuff there... like naming Gerald Wallace my team's captain last year.

But as I said a couple times in this thread, we shouldn't read into any major stats of 2nd year summer league players... whether it's Gordon, Exum, Smart, Furkan, etc...  Summer league is usually dominated by 2nd year players for a reason.  It doesn't mean Smart is on the verge of superstardom.  He's still go a long way to go.

I apologize if the quote was poorly sourced, but the sentiment remains:

You're utterly boring, completely predictable, and contribute very little to most discussions beyond zeroing in on the least intelligent positive thing anyone in the thread has said and stringing it up as a straw man to hide your unerring position of dour, dreadful negativity in a thin veneer of rationality.

I genuinely feel like I can predict how you will react to each and every thread.

Well that's overly combative.

He's generally right (minus Embiid), and contributes thoughtful posts. Get the impression others taken offense to his staunch positions, but that doesn't mean he isn't making solid contributions to discussions.

That's what happens when posting at 4 AM on a Friday night.

[LarBrd33]

Heh I like Smart.  I liked Rondo too.  But much like I felt Rondo was never going to be a superstar, I find it extremely unlikely that Smart will.   

Doubt about Smart's ability to make an all-star team is not an uncommon opinion.