Author Topic: Amir Johnson to Celtics  (Read 92437 times)

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Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #255 on: July 01, 2015, 07:45:53 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm pretty sure they are, but not at the price Danny wants.

Doesn't that kind of mean the same thing?

If other teams aren't interested in paying your price, obviously they aren't as thrilled about your players as you are.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #256 on: July 01, 2015, 07:47:13 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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I'm pretty sure they are, but not at the price Danny wants.

Doesn't that kind of mean the same thing?

If other teams aren't interested in paying your price, obviously they aren't as thrilled about your players as you are.

Teams always want to underpay in a trade, Danny surely doesn't want to overpay.

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #257 on: July 01, 2015, 07:49:17 PM »

Offline 2short

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2) This immediately makes Sullinger expendable.  I have a feeling teams have not been thrilled with Sully as a trade piece, but Danny had to ask a lot for him because of his age/potential and the fact that Bass might leave.  Then Danny would be forced to overpay for any PF to fill in.

Me too. Combination of (1) Sully's bad conditioning (2) his contract is soon to expire and teams are uncertain how much to pay him because of his bad conditioning vs talent / upside ... and (3) Sully's slow feet and worries about his defense will measure up as the league gets quicker and more perimeter orientated at that PF position ... concerns which Sully has compounded by putting forth less and less effort defensively each year he has been in the league and last year showed himself in a terrible light with his substandard defensive efforts.

Imo bass is obviously gone.  To him I say thank you, a pro, and good luck.
Sully is being offered in a package with Bradley and draft pick(s) for a bigger name player.
Kelly will hang around as he can give us minutes as a stretch center who can play of.
Amir is a very good signing.

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #258 on: July 01, 2015, 07:49:25 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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To recap:

- I liked Noel well before he was on the 76ers... so did a lot of people here.
- I liked Embiid well before he was on the 76ers... as did Danny Ainge.  He tried to trade up for him.
- I liked Okafor well before he was on the 76ers... as did Danny Ainge.  He tried to trade up for him.

They all ended up on Philly.    All three are better than every chip on our team. 

Right now, at this present point in time, Avery Bradley, Jared Sullinger and Isaiah Thomas are all better NBA players (or at the very least AS GOOD) as the best player on the 76ers roster.

The best player the sixers have right now is Nerlens Noel.  It's very difficult to argue that Noel is better RIGHT NOW than Bradley, Sully or Thomas.  You can probably make a legit argument that he is on par with those guys, but certainly not better.

All of the value the 76ers have right now, is in that mystical entity we like to call "potential". 

Quote
potential

adjective: potential
having or showing the capacity to develop into something in the future.

noun: potential
latent qualities or abilities that may be developed and lead to future success or usefulness.

Potential is, by definition, an ability that somebody doesn't have...but that you hope they might one day have.

Until Okafor and Embiid have played sufficient time in the NBA, 'potential' is all that they have. 

Until Noel can prove that he can develop his offensive game enough to not be a major liability on that end of the floor, potential is the only thing that makes him superior to our own talents.

Those three guys may be more valuable "assets" right now than what we have on the Celtics, but every day they don't show signs if reaching their 'potential' that value drops. 

Every game Embiid misses due to injury his value drops
Every game Noel's offensive issues get exploited, his value drops
Every game that Okafor gets on the court and DOESN'T look like a #3 pick, his value drops

Personally, I think Embiid is not going to come close to his perceived potential and will be a good starter at best.

I think Noel Is never going to be a positive offensive player, and will be lucky to ever become Tyson Chandler good on that end.  If he can become at least neutral then he'll have a great career, but if he's a permanent liability then he's never going to be much more valuable than Omer Asik. 

I think Okafor is going to come out strong pretty much from the get go.  I think he's going to be a fantastic player and worthy of his pick.  I have a lot of confidence in him.  But what if he doesn't? 

The entire Philly team is full of question marks - there is nothing surefire, nothing set in stone.  Three years from how Hinkie could look like an NBA god, or he could just as easily be the laughing stock of the NBA.

That's the difference - he's taking a big risk in a high stakes poker game, and he's putting a lot of faith in something he doesn't have a whole lot of control over, basically purely in the hope that he gets lucky and the domino's fall the right way.

Make no mistake - there is nothing intelligent about what the 76ers are doing.  There is nothing calculated, no formula, no strategy.  They are taking their entire household savings from the past 10 years, going to the nearest poker machine, and putting it all on 'Red'.  They're hoping luck falls their way and they double up, because the only other option is that they lose everything and the entire past 3 years are for nothing.

Btw Eddie... if you wouldn't trade our entire roster/assets straight up for Philly's roster/assets... you're lying.

There is no way in hell that I would even dream of trading all of our assets for all of Philly's assets.

Not in a million years.

I would look Hinkie in the eyes and laugh hysterically in his face.  Then I'd give him a pat on the back for trying.

There are two types of people in the world - those who are risk takers, the 'calculated risk' takers, and the cautious.

You obviously are part of group #1 - the risk takers.  That's fine, and it's a valid approach.  High risk general equals high reward or bust.  You'd rather risk a bust in order to give yourself the chance at hitting the jackpot - fair enough.

I'm in group #2 - calculated risk taker.  I'm all for taking a risk, but I need to know that the worst case scenario (just in case we hit it) is not a complete disaster, and will still leave us in a position where we can jump to a plan B and/or remain somewhat competitive.

I think Danny is also in group #2 - happy to invest in somebody's ceiling, but only if he's convinced that the floor is high enough that the trade can be still be considered acceptable even if it doesn't pan out as expected.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 08:04:09 PM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #259 on: July 01, 2015, 07:56:41 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Potential is, by definition, an ability that somebody doesn't have...but that you hope they might one day have.

Until Okafor and Embiid have played sufficient time in the NBA, 'potential' is all that they have. 

Until Noel can prove that he can develop his offensive game enough to not be a major liability on that end of the floor, potential is the only thing that makes him superior to our own talents.



I think Noel, right now, is probably a more impactful defensive player than any the Celts have.

I would not be surprised if the same is true of Embiid once he starts playing.

I think Okafor, as soon as he starts playing, will be a more dangerous offensive player than any the Celts have right now, with the exception perhaps of Isaiah Thomas.

Really, the biggest issue for Philly right now is that all three guys are unequivocally centers.  They will not be at their best sharing the floor.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #260 on: July 01, 2015, 07:57:53 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I am assuming Bulpett's report is correct that both Johnson and Jerebko deals are non-guaranteed in year 2?  If so anyone complaining about this signing can stop talking,
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 08:08:00 PM by mctyson »

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #261 on: July 01, 2015, 07:58:42 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm pretty sure they are, but not at the price Danny wants.

Doesn't that kind of mean the same thing?

If other teams aren't interested in paying your price, obviously they aren't as thrilled about your players as you are.

Teams always want to underpay in a trade, Danny surely doesn't want to overpay.

I think "overpaying" in a trade can have value if it allows you to consolidate your assets and clear playing time for younger guys to actually develop at the NBA level.

That's why offering all those picks for #9 makes perfect sense to me, even if the team thought Winslow might just be an above average starter and nothing more.  The NBA is all about strong individual assets.  You always have to "overpay" when what you have to offer is quantity.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #262 on: July 01, 2015, 08:00:28 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I am assuming Bulpett's report is correct that both Johnson and Jerebko deals are non-guaranteed in year 2?  If so complaining anyone complaining about this signing can stop talking,

Two valid complaints to be made

(1) These signings do not advance the team in any major way and instead preserve the status quo, with perhaps incremental improvement that will help the team maintain at the level it ended this past season: mediocre.

(2) These signings signal a resignation to not making any major moves to improve the team this summer, at least not through free agency.  The team will not be adding any long term pieces via that route.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #263 on: July 01, 2015, 08:02:03 PM »

Offline Geo123

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Too much per year for Johnson IMO.

Like it a ton better with the 2nd year non-guaranteed...

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #264 on: July 01, 2015, 08:04:57 PM »

Offline celts10

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Amir will look nice next to Cousins  :P

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #265 on: July 01, 2015, 08:05:16 PM »

Offline goCeltics

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not sure what noel's done to get the hard on ppl on this forum have for him, looks like he can't score, and embiid looks like greg oden and sam bowie love child.

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #266 on: July 01, 2015, 08:07:01 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Poor Amir Johnson.....with that contract non-guaranteed next year he's going to be traded before he knows what happened.

Ainge is loading up on tradeable contracts to package with the stockpile of picks.

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #267 on: July 01, 2015, 08:10:37 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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not sure what noel's done to get the hard on ppl on this forum have for him, looks like he can't score, and embiid looks like greg oden and sam bowie love child.

No clue, man.

Noel has no offense.
Okafor has no defense.
Embiid can't get healthy.
Saric isn't even in the country.

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #268 on: July 01, 2015, 08:11:12 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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UPDATE!
Quote
Deals w/Amir Johnson and Jerebko have non-guaranteed 2nd years. Full story on Celtics' FA pursuits just posted. http://bit.ly/1FScuee - Steve Bulpett
That's great news! Johnson will be a good trade asset to have if he doens't pan out in Boston!

HELLO!

The money given is not so bad after all. Wow. He's going to either be a good role player to us or an excellent trade chip, assuming Danny can move him.

2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Amir Johnson to Celtics
« Reply #269 on: July 01, 2015, 08:11:24 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I am assuming Bulpett's report is correct that both Johnson and Jerebko deals are non-guaranteed in year 2?  If so complaining anyone complaining about this signing can stop talking,

Two valid complaints to be made

(1) These signings do not advance the team in any major way and instead preserve the status quo, with perhaps incremental improvement that will help the team maintain at the level it ended this past season: mediocre.

(2) These signings signal a resignation to not making any major moves to improve the team this summer, at least not through free agency.  The team will not be adding any long term pieces via that route.

I am 100% positive Danny Ainge inquired about any "major" free agent that he thought he could sign that would make this team significantly better.  There is absolutely no resignation in these moves.

He is doing what is sensible and possible.