Woj: Boston to sell Kevin Love on pursuing group of Love, Robin Lopez & Pierce

[CelticSooner]

It's called winning culture and fit. The C's offer that more so than any other team. No Kevin Love isn't a "superstar". There's maybe 4 of those in the league LeBron, Durant, Curry, and Davis. He's an All-star player tho that has been underrated way too much the past few years. He also will help attract other free agents.

How in god's name can Kevin Love possibly be called an 'underrated' player?

An underrated player is a guy like Paul Millsap, Andre Iguodala or Cauncey Billups.  Guys who rarely get media attention and struggle to make all-star teams because they put up good (but not amazing) stats - yet they increase team wins everywhere they go because they do all the small things to help their teams win games.

Kevin Love is the absolute complete polar opposite to that definition.  He's an undisputed max contract guy who made three all star teams in his first six years, is all over the media, and is most famously known for putting up ridiculously impressive stats on bad team that never won anything.

Kevin Love does ALL of the things that show up on stat sheets, and offers NONE of the intangibles that don't show up on stat sheets.

He is the very definition of overrated.

Also your definition of a superstar differs from mine.  I would say that guys like Love, Aldridge and Cousins are very much considered superstars. 

Guys like Lebron, Davis and Durant are one step above that in the "franchise player" category.

Curry is (imho) closer to 'Superstar' than 'Franchise Player' but is in the process of taking that step up. 

Superstars are also All-Stars typically, but not all All-Stars (e.g. Millsap, Korver) are superstars.

You just made the point I'm talking about. I don't buy that he's just a stat stuffer. That's why he's being underrated. He's more than capable of being a key piece on a title team. He'd already have a ring if the Cavs were fully healthy IMO.

[crimson_stallion]

You can't blame Love too much for not making the playoffs.  The West has been insanely tough and he's really just coming into his prime.  On the other hand, KG dragged a lot of bad Minnesota teams to first round playoff losses.

As I already said, being in the West is no excuse for Love.

When KG was in Minnesota never had a season with less than 32 wins - not once - and had 8 seasons (out of 11) in which they were over the 0.500 mark. 

While Kevin Love was in Minnesota they wre below 32 wins 5 times in 6 years, and didn't once finish over 0.500 mark.

That's not just "failing to make the playoffs in the tough western conference", that's embarrassing.

[crimson_stallion]

You just made the point I'm talking about. I don't buy that he's just a stat stuffer. That's why he's being underrated. He's more than capable of being a key piece on a title team. He'd already have a ring if the Cavs were fully healthy IMO.

What, you mean the same Cav's team that (sans Irving and Love) was basically a team full of role players which Lebron James single handed carried to Game 6 of the NBA finals?

Also there is absolutely no possible way you could come to the conclusion that Cleveland would have a ring if Love didn't get injured - that is pure speculation and there is absolutely zero evidence to back it up.  I mean it's not like the Cavs started really struggling after Love got hurt - they powered their way (pretty convincingly) through every team they faced and it wasn't until they lost Kyrie Irving (and came up against the best team in the NBA) that they finally started to show signs of struggle.

You're really not making a very strong case for how important Love was to that team...

[CelticSooner]

You just made the point I'm talking about. I don't buy that he's just a stat stuffer. That's why he's being underrated. He's more than capable of being a key piece on a title team. He'd already have a ring if the Cavs were fully healthy IMO.

What, you mean the same Cav's team that (sans Irving and Love) was basically a team full of role players which Lebron James single handed carried to Game 6 of the NBA finals?

The team that nearly upset the best team in the Western Conference WITHOUT Kevin Love?

You're making a very strong case for how important Love was to that team...

It's obvious your not a Kevin Love fan that's fine. LeBron carried the Cavs in a bad East. No Love isn't that guy to carry a team. Never said he was. He's a [dang] good piece on a contender tho and a big upgrade to the so-so roster.

[crimson_stallion]

It's obvious your not a Kevin Love fan that's fine. LeBron carried the Cavs in a bad East. No Love isn't that guy to carry a team. Never said he was. He's a [dang] good piece on a contender tho and a big upgrade to the so-so roster.

People keep making references to the "bad East" and the "strong West" but it's all irrelevant really.

The Cavs had a 65% win record this season which was plenty good enough record to carry them to one of the better seeds recardless of conference.

Kevin Love in Minnesota couldn't lead his team to a win record above 48% which (even in the East) would have been lucky to get you a 7th or 8th seed and a first round exit.

Which conference those teams were in has very little bearing on the end result.   

So my point is if Love is so much more valuable than a bunch of role players, then why is it that Love (as a star with a bunch of role players and a top 8 all-time coach) couldn't make a single playoff game, while the Celtics (with a bunch of role players, no star, and a second year coach) could?

Love is obviously one of the more talented players in this league, so if he wasn't able to lead those team, then why?  Why can't you lead a team to even an 8th seed sweep if you're putting up stupid numbers like 26/14/3? 

My thinking is it's nothing to do with talent, and everything to do with attitude.  Does he have the work ethic, the passion and the motivation?  If not, then will having Love's fantastic production actually help the team more than his attitude may potentially hurt it?

I'm still open to taking a shot at Love for the reasons i mentioned earlier (it'd be a decent contract once the cap rises, and he'd be easy to trade later) but this whole debate started when the the comment was made that "a Kevin Love can win more games than a bunch of role players with Celtic Pride" (or something to that effect) and my point here is...based on what evidence?

Anyway it seems we'll have to agree to disagree and if Love is the only big name player we have a shot at then I certainly won't say no...but if we have opportunities to get other star players then then I'd rather see pretty much any star player here over Love.

Or, again, trade for Love for Cousins at the deadline

And yes - the fact that I don't like Love because of his attitude, yet am pushing for Cousins, really does give some indication of just how bad I think Love's attitude is haha

[CelticSooner]

It's obvious your not a Kevin Love fan that's fine. LeBron carried the Cavs in a bad East. No Love isn't that guy to carry a team. Never said he was. He's a [dang] good piece on a contender tho and a big upgrade to the so-so roster.

People keep making references to the "bad East" and the "strong West" but it's all irrelevant really.

The Cavs had a 65% win record this season which was plenty good enough record to carry them to one of the better seeds recardless of conference.

Kevin Love in Minnesota couldn't lead his team to a win record above 48% which (even in the East) would have been lucky to get you a 7th or 8th seed and a first round exit.

Which conference those teams were in has very little bearing on the end result.   

So my point is if Love is so much more valuable than a bunch of role players, then why is it that Love (as a star with a bunch of role players and a top 8 all-time coach) couldn't make a single playoff game, while the Celtics (with a bunch of role players, no star, and a second year coach) could?

Conference matters. As good as CBS is the C's aren't sniffing 46 wins in the West last year.

[crimson_stallion]

It's obvious your not a Kevin Love fan that's fine. LeBron carried the Cavs in a bad East. No Love isn't that guy to carry a team. Never said he was. He's a [dang] good piece on a contender tho and a big upgrade to the so-so roster.

People keep making references to the "bad East" and the "strong West" but it's all irrelevant really.

The Cavs had a 65% win record this season which was plenty good enough record to carry them to one of the better seeds recardless of conference.

Kevin Love in Minnesota couldn't lead his team to a win record above 48% which (even in the East) would have been lucky to get you a 7th or 8th seed and a first round exit.

Which conference those teams were in has very little bearing on the end result.   

So my point is if Love is so much more valuable than a bunch of role players, then why is it that Love (as a star with a bunch of role players and a top 8 all-time coach) couldn't make a single playoff game, while the Celtics (with a bunch of role players, no star, and a second year coach) could?

Conference matters. As good as CBS is the C's aren't sniffing 46 wins in the West last year.

Not really...because this is regular season, not playoffs.  West plays East, East plays West.  The conference matters relatively little in the regular season.

[GetLucky]

Fun Fact: If Cleveland were in the Western Conference this year and had the same record (that they got by playing most of their games in the weak East), they would have had the 6th-best record in the Western Conference.

Conferences do matter in that teams only have to play out-of-conference for 30 games.

[Jonny CC]

You can't blame Love too much for not making the playoffs.  The West has been insanely tough and he's really just coming into his prime.  On the other hand, KG dragged a lot of bad Minnesota teams to first round playoff losses.

As I already said, being in the West is no excuse for Love.

When KG was in Minnesota never had a season with less than 32 wins - not once - and had 8 seasons (out of 11) in which they were over the 0.500 mark. 

While Kevin Love was in Minnesota they wre below 32 wins 5 times in 6 years, and didn't once finish over 0.500 mark.

That's not just "failing to make the playoffs in the tough western conference", that's embarrassing.

So, when Love was averaging 25+pts and 12+rebs a game with Minny it was HIS fault that they didn't have a winning record?!?!? 

[Jonny CC]

It's obvious your not a Kevin Love fan that's fine. LeBron carried the Cavs in a bad East. No Love isn't that guy to carry a team. Never said he was. He's a [dang] good piece on a contender tho and a big upgrade to the so-so roster.

People keep making references to the "bad East" and the "strong West" but it's all irrelevant really.

The Cavs had a 65% win record this season which was plenty good enough record to carry them to one of the better seeds recardless of conference.

Kevin Love in Minnesota couldn't lead his team to a win record above 48% which (even in the East) would have been lucky to get you a 7th or 8th seed and a first round exit.

Which conference those teams were in has very little bearing on the end result.   

So my point is if Love is so much more valuable than a bunch of role players, then why is it that Love (as a star with a bunch of role players and a top 8 all-time coach) couldn't make a single playoff game, while the Celtics (with a bunch of role players, no star, and a second year coach) could?

Conference matters. As good as CBS is the C's aren't sniffing 46 wins in the West last year.

Not really...because this is regular season, not playoffs.  West plays East, East plays West.  The conference matters relatively little in the regular season.

Huh??  If there are better teams in the West and you play more games within your conference, the it absolutely matters. 

[LooseCannon]

Lebron is probably the only player who I would bet on making the playoffs if you surrounded him with a bunch of D-Leaguers.  There's no shame in missing the playoffs if your teammates are crap.

[GetLucky]

Lebron is probably the only player who I would bet on making the playoffs if you surrounded him with a bunch of D-Leaguers.  There's no shame in missing the playoffs if your teammates are crap.

But Kevin Love is embarrassing!

That man has a bad attitude and is the opposite of a Leprechaun.

Red would strongly dislike him!

Stan Love had a mustache that was quite the chick magnet.

[Jonny CC]

Lebron is probably the only player who I would bet on making the playoffs if you surrounded him with a bunch of D-Leaguers.  There's no shame in missing the playoffs if your teammates are crap.

Finally...some common sense. 

[CelticSooner]

Lebron is probably the only player who I would bet on making the playoffs if you surrounded him with a bunch of D-Leaguers.  There's no shame in missing the playoffs if your teammates are crap.

Put LeBron on the Sixers next season and they win 50 games lol