(Marcus Smart, #16, & 2016 Brooklyn 1st Rounder) for 2015's #1 or #2 pick?

[twistedrico]

I can't understand why anyone would even want to consider trading Marcus Smart. No way never.

[Rondo9]

I can't understand why anyone would even want to consider trading Marcus Smart. No way never.

I wouldn't trade him for Embiid.

[Eja117]

Once Embiid makes it through 75 games we can talk. Not before.

[Csfan1984]

How do we get this kid next year?

Skal Labissiere

Going to be one-and-done at Kentucky this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK7iTFsE6aU

Lab and Simmons all the reasons to tank like our team plays in Philly.

[crimson_stallion]

No.

[crimson_stallion]

You guys are crazy.  You absolutely make that trade, don't give it a second thought, and laugh all the way to the bank. 

Of course neither Minnesota or LA makes either of those trades.

Yeah, and if you draft the #2 pick and it sends up becoming the next Darko Milicic, Michael Olowokandi or Greg Oden...then what?


We likely have the ability to trade up into the top 10 without giving up Smart, and there is no telling how high in the lottery next years Nets pick could be. There's a very legit chance that Ainge is able to get two top 10 picks (this year via trade, and next year because of how bad Brooklyn will be).  Marcus Smart is a #6 pick.

So you're potentially giving up three top 10 picks for a single #1 or #2 pick. And you say that the people saying no are crazy?

The Draft is a huge risk / gable no matter what position you're drafting at.  I'd rather have three potential three top 10 picks in three years, rather than a single top 2 pick one year.  You increase your chance of success by not throwing all of your eggs in to one basket. 

Every now and then teams draft #1 and end up with a guy like Duncan or Anthony Davis, and the while draft universe seems to just slip into place. 

Then there are times where things like Anthony Bennett happen and the world laughs at you for making an idiotic pick that (at the time) seemed to make so much sense.

Last year Marcus Smart might not have put up the most impressive box score numbers, but he had a HUGE impact on us making the playoffs.  The impact he had on this team when he was on the court was overwhelmingly positive on both ends of the floor because of all the little things he did.

In fact Marcus Smart's 'Real Plus Minus' stat of +2.21 this season ranked him 12th (out of 84) among all active Point Guards and 67th (out of 474) among all active NBA players.  That puts him in the top 85th percentile in both categories - as a rookie! 

In fact the only player on our team who ranked higher than Smart was Kelly Olynyk (34th overall with +3.51) so you could make a very legitimate argument that Smart was one of the two most valuable players to our team last season.

It's VERY rare for a rookie (especially one as young as Smart) to come in to the league and make that type of impact his first season in the league.  If you want evidence of that, just look at the other guys taken top 8 in the 2014 draft:

Andrew Wiggins ranked 272nd (-1.65)
Dante Exum ranted 282nd (-1.77)
Aaron Gordon ranked 325th (-2.52)
Vonleh ranked 347th (-2.80)
Jabari Parker ranked 433rd (-4.33). 
Randle played only one game due to injury
Embiid did not play a single game

Oh and no, Noel didn't do that much better (he ranked 254th with a -1.49).

In fact the only other rookie who made the top 100 was Elfrid Payton (who ranked 72nd with +2.09).

So that should give you some indication as to what Marcus Smart's value is to this team, especially given how relatively raw he still is - he still has a lot of room to improve as a shooter, as a passer, as a ball handler, etc. 

Marcus Smart is going to be either one of two things:

a)  An All-Star
b) A Billups / Iggy / Leonard type (doesn't get crazy stats, but adds wins everywhere he goes)

To trade a player like that AND a #16 pick AND an unprotected pick from next year that could easily be high lottery...THAT my friend, is crazy.

[Forza Juventus]

I would trade whatever Minnesota wants for the first pick so I could draft Towns but even then Minnesota wouldn't do it. 

[Ilikesports17]

Hinkie is all about superstars its why he drafted saric knowing he could be 2+ years away, its why he took Noel with an ACL its why he took Embiid with the foot its why he traded MCW and why he has tanked for 2 years going on 3.

If he is willing to trade the guy with the highest ceiling on his roster it either means that injury is real real bad, or you are giving up way more than Embiid is worth.

[BDeCosta26]

I'd be considerably more likely to do it for Towns, but I still don't think Towns is an Anthony Davis/LBJ level prospect which is what I'd be looking for if I was basing a package off those assets. Like CS said, Smart has already proven himself to be a valuable player in this league with a very bright future, and while the same can be said about a guy like Okafor, I'm just not convinced he could be the headliner on a championship team. Smart May not be either, but he could almost surely he one of the most important players on one in the future, and I wouldn't trade that AND more valuable assets (That BRK pick could very well be top 10) for a guy like Okafor, Russell or Porzingas.

I'd think about it for Towns, but I still probably wouldn't do it.

[crimson_stallion]

Of course I would.  None of the assets the Celts give up in the trade are likely to turn into franchise cornerstones.  Okafor and Towns could turn into franchise caliber big men.

No way would that package be enough for the Wolves or Lakers.  A package like that wasn't enough to get the Wolves to trade Kevin Love.

Of course it wasn't enough for the Wolves to trade Love - Love was a 25 year old coming of season in which he put up 25/13/3 - no team in it's right mind would trade a player that good for Marcus Smart and two draft picks.

But this thread isn't talking about trading for Kevin Love - it's talking about trading for a top 2 draft pick.

Are you seriously trying to argue that a #1/#2 pick in this year's draft is as valuable as Kevin Love on the open market, because (with all due respect) if you're trying to argue that then I think you're a bit delusional. 

I don't like Kevin Love at all, but he is a multi-time All Star, a superstar, and considered by many (not me) to be a franchise player.

To even try to argue he's worth the same on the trade market as a top 2 pic in ANY draft is just crazy. 

Hell even in 2003 if you offered Clevleand a player of Love's caliber in return for their #1 pick (then, Lebron James) I'm pretty sure Cleveland would have taken the deal and traded the rights to Lebron.

You just don't take the gamble of a prospect/draft pick over the certainty of a young NBA superstar, no matter how high that prospect's upside may seem to be.

[crimson_stallion]

Embiid???  He might never play a single game.

I get the sense this is what many Celtics fans tell themselves about Embiid because they want to see the Sixers' "all-out-tank" strategy fail while the Celtics are being "noble" and trying to "compete."

Why?

Embiid's upside has been dramatially overrated from the get go.  The guy is still very raw offensively, doesn't seem to have a standout attitude, and has the baskteball IQ of a plank of wood.

Throw in to the mix the fact that he just missed his entire rookie year and now is injured AGAIN, and it's impossible to ignore the possibliity the Embiid could become another Greg Oden.

I even seem to recall Danny Ainge saying that the Celtics medical team gave Embiid the red-light, saying that he was too high a medical risk.  That's coming from a medical team that gave a green light to Sully...

Embiid seems to have the potential to be a good starter,  but even if he was healthy I'm not sure he has All-Star potential.  He's no Anthony Davis or Lebron James calibre prospect - he's upside IMHO is not high enough to justify taking that big a gamble, especially given that big men usually have the hardest time transitioning to the NBA...and Embiid is yet to play a single game to show us he can even perform at an NBA level.

I wouldn't dream of trading anything of significant value for Embiid unless / until he's put up at least one full, solid and healthy season in the NBA.

[crimson_stallion]

Hinkie is all about superstars its why he drafted saric knowing he could be 2+ years away, its why he took Noel with an ACL its why he took Embiid with the foot its why he traded MCW and why he has tanked for 2 years going on 3.

If he is willing to trade the guy with the highest ceiling on his roster it either means that injury is real real bad, or you are giving up way more than Embiid is worth.

I don't think he's all about superstars...

I think he's all about drafting guys who he knows wont be able to play together for another 2 years, just to further help the tanking effort and obtain as many high lottery picks as possible in the shortest possible time.

I think his plan is get 4 or 5 young core players via the draft because it's an effective way to add talent on affordable contracts.  Then I think in two years once all of those guys are contributing at a solid-to-high level, use the abundance of cap space to sign two stars and bam - contender.

Of course this banks very highly on two things:

1) That the guys he drafts actually become good players
2) That, despite embracing years of intentional losing, star free agents will actually want to join
3) That the guys drafted all work together
4) That the young guys he drafted don't all leave once they become FA to join a winning team

It's certainly a valid approach to take, but it's also a very risky one that could explode very quickly.

[crimson_stallion]

Towns - Yes
Okafor - Not without qualms, but yes.
Embiid - No. Too much risk. There is a pattern here with the injuries and the healing. It will happen again.

2014's draft was clearly stronger going in than this year's. The top two tiers aren't as deep, and though the middle is as good, the back end is much weaker.

If this is true the DEFINITELY a no, because the 2014 draft was terrible...really terrible.  The highest scorer in he draft averaged what - 17 PPG on one of the worst teams in the NBA?  The second best scorer averaged 13 PPG or so.  That's got to be historically one of the worst draft's of the past 10 years, right?

I mean in terms of impact Marcus Smart was CLEARLY the most valuable player in the entire draft, since he played a critical role in leading Boston to the playoffs.  If you have arguably the most valuable player in the this year's draft, why would you trade him for another draft pick in a WORSE draft? 

[slamtheking]

Would you let go of Marcus, this year's #16 pick, and next year's Brooklyn 1st rounder for Towns of Okafor?

for Towns, yes.  Okafor, probably.  what gives me hesitation is that Brooklyn pick.  make it the lesser of the Nets and C's pick and then yes--top 3 protected for both though--just in case

[max215]

Towns - Yes
Okafor - Not without qualms, but yes.
Embiid - No. Too much risk. There is a pattern here with the injuries and the healing. It will happen again.

2014's draft was clearly stronger going in than this year's. The top two tiers aren't as deep, and though the middle is as good, the back end is much weaker.

If this is true the DEFINITELY a no, because the 2014 draft was terrible...really terrible.  The highest scorer in he draft averaged what - 17 PPG on one of the worst teams in the NBA?  The second best scorer averaged 13 PPG or so.  That's got to be historically one of the worst draft's of the past 10 years, right?

I mean in terms of impact Marcus Smart was CLEARLY the most valuable player in the entire draft, since he played a critical role in leading Boston to the playoffs.  If you have arguably the most valuable player in the this year's draft, why would you trade him for another draft pick in a WORSE draft?

I take it you don't watch much basketball, because Andrew Wiggins had a fantastic rookie campaign and Jabari Parker looked pretty good until he went down with injury. Maybe you're thinking of the 2013 Draft, which was quite literally one of the worst drafts in NBA history. But if you're talking about the 2014 Draft then frankly, you're just wrong.