Author Topic: CB article: Rakeem Christmas may have what the Celtics are looking for  (Read 8968 times)

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Offline TA9

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I must say that Eddie is right regarding Rakeem Christmas and his age.
It's not an uncommon thing that older players are dominating in the NCAA, where the competition mostly consists of young players between the age of 18-21 years. Rakeem had an easy time last year given that his body was more mature compared to the players he was facing hence that he easily scored a lot of points.

I'm not saying that he is bad, but he is basically a case of "what you see is what you get" like Eddie pointed out too. With that being said don't expect him to get much better than he is right now.

Look I know being older is a minus. But we are not talking about a Luke Harongody like prospect here. A guy that had a good college career, but has very little transferable skills  and worse has almost non existant athleticism/quickness to hang even with the worse nba players.

Christmas in terms of size, length, explosiveness is at the top level in comparison to other nba pfs already.  Also good weight at 245 pounds. 

Skillwise, his post skills are impressive.   Will he be able to do what he did in college in the NBA? likely not at will but his running hook, faceup and dribble past slower guys should translate. Add a mid range J now.  His defense or what he has learned from playing zone D is a concern but can be reworked (especially considering his physical tools).  He graduated with good marks and is known as a hard worker

When I add all of these things minus age ,  this is still a solid prospect imo.     
Sure, I don't disagree that Rakeem is a solid prospect. I just wouldn't pick him at #28 given that a younger player with upside would be more beneficial here.
I'm all for selecting him with #33 pick as he could very likely turn out to be a serviceable backup at the center position ;D!
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Offline Eddie20

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I must say that Eddie is right regarding Rakeem Christmas and his age.
It's not an uncommon thing that older players are dominating in the NCAA, where the competition mostly consists of young players between the age of 18-21 years. Rakeem had an easy time last year given that his body was more mature compared to the players he was facing hence that he easily scored a lot of points.

I'm not saying that he is bad, but he is basically a case of "what you see is what you get" like Eddie pointed out too. With that being said don't expect him to get much better than he is right now.

Look I know being older is a minus. But we are not talking about a Luke Harongody like prospect here. A guy that had a good college career, but has very little transferable skills  and worse has almost non existant athleticism/quickness to hang even with the worse nba players.

Christmas in terms of size, length, explosiveness is at the top level in comparison to other nba pfs already.  Also good weight at 245 pounds. 

Skillwise, his post skills are impressive.   Will he be able to do what he did in college in the NBA? likely not at will but his running hook, faceup and dribble past slower guys should translate. Add a mid range J now.  His defense or what he has learned from playing zone D is a concern but can be reworked (especially considering his physical tools).  He graduated with good marks and is known as a hard worker

When I add all of these things minus age ,  this is still a solid prospect imo.     

Yes, Christmas throwing up running hooks and taking guys off the dribble is going to be exactly what a team wants.

Alexander and Mickey are prospects and the difference between us is that you don't realize that and think Mickey is ready to give a team rotational minutes next season. I think they both need to hone their skills in the D-League where they can become familiar with our schemes. I favor Alexander's upside more, not only because he's a year younger, but because his game (powerful, excellent rebounder, high motor, good finisher) is one that transfers well to the NBA. Guys like Haslem have made a career out of this style. On the flipside, a guy like Mickey (weak finisher around the basket despite his good leaping ability, average rebounder, low motor) I've seen fail countless times. Now this doesn't mean that this is full proof, but simply my opinion based on certain comparables.

Christmas is a different case entirely. The guy is turning 24 in 5 months. His ceiling is limited. Not only is that the case, but he doesn't have the skills, despite your beliefs, to be a rotational player in the league just yet. He too needs D-League time. Yet in this thread alone there are posts that say his potential is the next Ibaka and you said "not likely the next Ibaka". Not likely? Not ever is more like it.

See how my expectations are more grounded? I don't overrate Alexander at all. I just think he has the highest potential of the bunch.

By comparison here are the player comparisons for each player by draft net :

Christmas - Hilton Armstrong / Cedric Simmons (No Ibaka here)
Alexander - Thomas Robinson/Jeff Adrien
Mickey - Andre Roberson

See the difference between those and yours?

Offline Tr1boy

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Eddie20 what does not likely mean?   Christmas has similar physical tools as Ibaka, so I won't say never like you.   

Was I the one that brought up the Ibaka comparison? I said comparable to a skilled JJ Hickson

Btw how do you list Mickey as being an average rebounder but Alexander as an excellent rebounder when stats show them being comparable per 40 min?   You say Alexander has an excellent motor while Mickey has a poor one?? WHAT??

Mickey is known not to take plays off.   

Offline Eddie20

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Eddie20 what does not likely mean?   Christmas has similar physical tools as Ibaka, so I won't say never like you.   

Was I the one that brought up the Ibaka comparison? I said comparable to a skilled JJ Hickson

Btw how do you list Mickey as being an average rebounder but Alexander as an excellent rebounder when stats show them being comparable per 40 min?   You say Alexander has an excellent motor while Mickey has a poor one?? WHAT??

Mickey is known not to take plays off.

Ah, the more skilled Hickson example. A player that is only 3 years older and has 7 years of pro experience. I even question that to be honest.

Draft Express

Alexander-
Quote
Alexander's best attribute as a NBA prospect is likely his rebounding, which is an area he'll be able to hang his hat on and hopefully use to get playing time early on in his career. He is especially prolific on the offensive glass, grabbing 4.4 per-40 minutes, the seventh best rate among DX Top-100 prospects. His strong frame, long arms, big hands and terrific toughness all help him out significantly here, as he does a great job of moving other players around and banging in the post trying to get his team extra possessions.

Mickey-
Quote
Mickey is an average offensive rebounder, using his quickness to rebound outside his area, pulling down 3.4 per 40 minutes pace adjusted, which ranked 14th among 22 power forwards in the DX Top-100. He's also just a decent defensive rebounder, grabbing 7.1 defensive rebounds per 40 minutes adjusted, which is unremarkable. His total rebounds of 10.4 per 40 minutes pace adjusted is just an average mark for power forwards in our top 100 and he will need to concentrate on this skill by using his aggressiveness and effort to fill a role at the next level.

Mickey's motor tends to run hot and cold, as he doesn't always play with the same intensity level, and his production level and consistency left something to be desired at times for LSU. A lot of that could be said for their team as a whole, but Mickey will need to bring a more consistent energy and focus level if he's to be trusted a role-player off the bench considering his limitations offensively.

ESPN

Alexander-
Quote
Positives   
Strong, athletic big man
Crazy long wingspan
A terror in the paint
Attacks the rim on both ends of the floor
Explosive leaper
NBA body and strength
Excellent rebounder and shot blocker
Surprising lateral quickness for his size
Great motor

Negatives   
A tad undersized for his position
Needs to add a midrange game
Low basketball IQ, plays on instinct


Mickey-
Quote
Positives   
Long, athletic forward
Explosive leaper
Finishes well above the rim
Solid mid-range game
Runs the floor well
Excellent shot blocker

Negatives   
Needs to add strength
Needs to add three point range to his jump shot
A little undersized for his position (he's 6-7 in socks)


ESPN didn't list rebounding and motor as a Mickey weakness, but Draft Express sort of summed it up. In addition, I'm glad that the rebounding numbers they posted with pace adjusted. That makes a huge difference.

Offline Tr1boy

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ESPN

Alexander-

Quote
Positives   
Strong, athletic big man
Crazy long wingspan
A terror in the paint
Attacks the rim on both ends of the floor
Explosive leaper
NBA body and strength
Excellent rebounder and shot blocker
Surprising lateral quickness for his size
Great motor

Negatives   
A tad undersized for his position
Needs to add a midrange game
Low basketball IQ, plays on instinct

Mickey-

Quote
Positives   
Long, athletic forward
Explosive leaper
Finishes well above the rim
Solid mid-range game
Runs the floor well
Excellent shot blocker

Negatives   
Needs to add strength
Needs to add three point range to his jump shot
A little undersized for his position (he's 6-7 in socks)
_________________________________________________

Lets see how accurate espn is.   Mickey is a little undersized for his position but does not list negative this for Alexander (they are pretty much the same height).  Alexander has a 7'3.5 wingspan which is above average measurements but not Crazy long wingspan. 

Alexander is not an explosive leaper.  He is decent but not explosive. Mickey is explosive. Christmas is explosive.   These guys are above the rim explosive, not Alexander.

But I do agree with ESPN that Alexander has a low iq.  This is another reason why I'm not a fan of this kid. 

Offline Eddie20

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ESPN

Alexander-

Quote
Positives   
Strong, athletic big man
Crazy long wingspan
A terror in the paint
Attacks the rim on both ends of the floor
Explosive leaper
NBA body and strength
Excellent rebounder and shot blocker
Surprising lateral quickness for his size
Great motor

Negatives   
A tad undersized for his position
Needs to add a midrange game
Low basketball IQ, plays on instinct

Mickey-

Quote
Positives   
Long, athletic forward
Explosive leaper
Finishes well above the rim
Solid mid-range game
Runs the floor well
Excellent shot blocker

Negatives   
Needs to add strength
Needs to add three point range to his jump shot
A little undersized for his position (he's 6-7 in socks)
_________________________________________________

Lets see how accurate espn is.   Mickey is a little undersized for his position but does not list negative this for Alexander (they are pretty much the same height).  Alexander has a 7'3.5 wingspan which is above average measurements but not Crazy long wingspan. 

Alexander is not an explosive leaper.  He is decent but not explosive. Mickey is explosive. Christmas is explosive.   These guys are above the rim explosive, not Alexander.

But I do agree with ESPN that Alexander has a low iq.  This is another reason why I'm not a fan of this kid.

So you only disagree with things that fit your narrative? Not surprising. What's not surprising either is that you failed to touch any of what draft express had to say. Actually, that is surprising since you always post d express videos showing how good this or that prospect is.

How can you say his wingspan isn't insane? That's over 6 inches longer than his height.

The below the rim Alexander..

Offline Tr1boy

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That picture of Alexander is misleading. He doesn't even dunk that ball and tries to pull a Griffin and throws the ball .  Watch the ending part of this clip to see how high he really jumps.  If tries to pull this stunt in the NBA, he will get blocked by a half decent shot blocker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wjyYn1zAs8&spfreload=1

On the other hand these are pics of what Mickey can do.  Explosive from standstill , above the rim, hangtime.   





also another example is the clip below. Mickey attempts to block the shot.  In addition Jarell Martin dunk.  These are examples of explosive leapers.    Alexander is decent. Quick off the ground for his size.  But can't jump that high from standstill , not a very good distant jumper.   Also lacks a great first step. You need most of these ingredients coming together to be considered a bonafide explosive leaper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYR-EXVJx4U

Offline Tr1boy

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Christmas dunk. This is explosive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzONTQXZ1PY


Offline Eddie20

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That picture of Alexander is misleading. He doesn't even dunk that ball and tries to pull a Griffin and throws the ball .  Watch the ending part of this clip to see how high he really jumps.  If tries to pull this stunt in the NBA, he will get blocked by a half decent shot blocker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYR-EXVJx4U

FYI, the last video isn't even Mickey.

I don't even know what your argument is to be honest. You pick small details, but fail to address my overall theme and that is that all 3 players (Alexander, Mickey, Christmas) are D-League bound, but only two have upside.

Your opinion...Christmas and Mickey will be (fill in the blank) next season:

A) D-League players all year
B) Rotational NBA players
C) NBA starters


Offline Tr1boy

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That picture of Alexander is misleading. He doesn't even dunk that ball and tries to pull a Griffin and throws the ball .  Watch the ending part of this clip to see how high he really jumps.  If tries to pull this stunt in the NBA, he will get blocked by a half decent shot blocker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYR-EXVJx4U

FYI, the last video isn't even Mickey.

I don't even know what your argument is to be honest. You pick small details, but fail to address my overall theme and that is that all 3 players (Alexander, Mickey, Christmas) are D-League bound, but only two have upside.

Your opinion...Christmas and Mickey will be (fill in the blank) next season:

A) D-League players all year
B) Rotational NBA players
C) NBA starters

Watch the beginning of the clip of Mickey trying to block the shot.  How quick and high he gets off the ground.  Martin dunk is another example

I never stated Mickey will be making the all defensive team next season. But in a year or after half a season could be a good defensive player off the bench, providing defense and shot blocking

Alexander on the other hand will become the next Thomas Robinson imo. Which is not bad but if I had to choose I would choose Mickey because his shot blocking, able to guard multiple positions should translate to the next level

Offline Eddie20

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That picture of Alexander is misleading. He doesn't even dunk that ball and tries to pull a Griffin and throws the ball .  Watch the ending part of this clip to see how high he really jumps.  If tries to pull this stunt in the NBA, he will get blocked by a half decent shot blocker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYR-EXVJx4U

FYI, the last video isn't even Mickey.

I don't even know what your argument is to be honest. You pick small details, but fail to address my overall theme and that is that all 3 players (Alexander, Mickey, Christmas) are D-League bound, but only two have upside.

Your opinion...Christmas and Mickey will be (fill in the blank) next season:

A) D-League players all year
B) Rotational NBA players
C) NBA starters

Watch the beginning of the clip of Mickey trying to block the shot.  How quick and high he gets off the ground.  Martin dunk is another example

I never stated Mickey will be making the all defensive team next season. But in a year or after half a season could be a good defensive player off the bench, providing defense and shot blocking

Alexander on the other hand will become the next Thomas Robinson imo. Which is not bad but if I had to choose I would choose Mickey because his shot blocking, able to guard multiple positions should translate to the next level

I never asked you that though (all defensive team comment). I asked which of the following choices did you predict for them next season. You never answered.

Offline Tr1boy

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Mickey - rotational player - Versatile defender, shot blocker.

Christmas - rotational player -  offense

Won't get consistent min, but will get mins here and there and more in the 2nd half after getting their feet wet.  Unlike Alexander who is going to be in the Dleague next season, both of these guys have good bbiq and have at least 2 years college experience under their belt
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 09:42:38 PM by triboy16f »

Offline fantankerous

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I didn't realize the Celtics were looking for the epitome of mediocrity.

Offline Eddie20

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Mickey - rotational player - Versatile defender, shot blocker.

Christmas - rotational player -  offense

Won't get consistent min, but will get mins here and there and more in the 2nd half after getting their feet wet.  Unlike Alexander who is going to be in the Dleague next season, both of these guys have good bbiq and have at least 2 years college experience under their belt

If either of these guys are part of a rotation next year we're in SERIOUS trouble. This means that one of these guys will have taken the Bass minutes, so we downgrade significantly at that position. This also means that we struck out during free agency and will instead go with a big man rotation of Sullinger, Olynyk, Zeller, and Christmas/Mickey (2nd round talent).

Offline Tr1boy

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Mickey - rotational player - Versatile defender, shot blocker.

Christmas - rotational player -  offense

Won't get consistent min, but will get mins here and there and more in the 2nd half after getting their feet wet.  Unlike Alexander who is going to be in the Dleague next season, both of these guys have good bbiq and have at least 2 years college experience under their belt

If either of these guys are part of a rotation next year we're in SERIOUS trouble. This means that one of these guys will have taken the Bass minutes, so we downgrade significantly at that position. This also means that we struck out during free agency and will instead go with a big man rotation of Sullinger, Olynyk, Zeller, and Christmas/Mickey (2nd round talent).



Sully, KO, Zeller, Christmas for example.  Try to sign Jerebko also. Good feeling we have a legit chance at signing Aldridge also

you start somewhere. What you can't have is Sully, KO, Zeller and Bass again.  Need to add an above the rim presence, size, length
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 10:26:13 PM by triboy16f »