Author Topic: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years  (Read 30593 times)

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Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2015, 07:37:32 AM »

Offline jay

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Just to flesh this out, here's a really easy way the team could be worse next year:

- Let Bass, Jerebko, and Datome walk.

- Give Crowder the QO but let him walk when some desperate team offers him well over the full MLE.

- Stay put in the draft at all spots and make a couple of draft-and-stash picks in the second round. (e.g. Portis, Wright, Jaiteh, Vezenkov)

- Sign a couple of young-ish buy-low guys (e.g. Biyombo, Aminu)



Opening night roster:

Smart / Thomas / Pressey
Bradley / Young / Wright
Turner / Aminu / Wallace
Sullinger / Portis
Zeller / Olynyk / Biyombo

How good would that same team be if we overpaid for Tobias Harris and still added Biyombo.  And paid Crowder enough to stay?

Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2015, 07:45:29 AM »

Offline chambers

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I think it's very possible we could finish 10th-12th in the East next year.
We overachieved this season with a brilliant coach, a poor Eastern conference and the acquisition of IT, Zeller and Crowder. Even Ainge said they didn't expect to have such a good run.

If we lose Bass, Crowder and trade Evan Turner for a 2nd round pick, replacing him with a rookie, then we're hurting for a veteran presence.
Avery Bradley's contract is very tradeable, and he'll be getting calls about first round picks for sure.

I could easily see us drafting 2-3 guys, letting James Young get some serious minutes on the floor too.

What's most important here, besides losing Bass and potentially Crowder, is that the East will be stronger than last season. Yeah the conference is weak, but the East was crushed with injuries this season.
You've got to think that the following teams are at least 5-10 wins better this season than last season:

Pacers (Paul George back)
Miami (Bosh, Dragic, Whiteside, Wade)
Pistons (Reggie Jackson)
Bobcats (couldn't have had a worse season with Lance and then Vonleh, Walker getting injured)
New York (Carmelo returns from injury, #4 pick can be traded for proven player, cap space for 2 max players)

Even the Nets had a resurgence at the end of the season with Thadeus Young and Lopez coming back.
We finished above all those teams last season and the only team above us that I can see significantly regressing is potentially Toronto if they blow it up. They could just stand pat and hope to add a free agent too.

That's three to six teams that could easily be better than us in the East.
With no Bass, Crowder leaving for $$$, we are losing some serious veteran presence on the court. You've also got to assume that Ainge will shop Turner before his deal expires, ala Jordan Crawford- I can't really see any other reason why Ainge signed Turner other than you renovate and flip him on his good deal.

Would not be surprised if we finish bottom 4 or 5 in the East.
Good signs for us are that Marcus Smart will be healthy, Sully will have lost a tonne of weight in a contract year, and James Young will have had a season under his belt, with an offseason to work on his game.

Or we could get Kevin Love and DeAndre Jordan. Fingers crossed.
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Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2015, 08:10:12 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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Just to flesh this out, here's a really easy way the team could be worse next year:

- Let Bass, Jerebko, and Datome walk.

- Give Crowder the QO but let him walk when some desperate team offers him well over the full MLE.

- Stay put in the draft at all spots and make a couple of draft-and-stash picks in the second round. (e.g. Portis, Wright, Jaiteh, Vezenkov)

- Sign a couple of young-ish buy-low guys (e.g. Biyombo, Aminu)



Opening night roster:

Smart / Thomas / Pressey
Bradley / Young / Wright
Turner / Aminu / Wallace
Sullinger / Portis
Zeller / Olynyk / Biyombo

But, that team could make the playoffs again.  They could even be a little bit better.

I agree that could be the type of roster the Cs are left with after the offseason. With growth from Marcus, Sully and KO that team is like this past season a fringe Eastern playoff team.

This type of situation is actually a strong argument for DA making a strong effort to trade up in the draft. Even if not for WCS consolidation some of the young talent for a higher ceiling player like say S Johnson may be a short term step back but a long term improvement.
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Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2015, 08:43:18 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I could see the young players show improvement and the overall team record go down.


Celtics slipped into the playoffs because of injuries to other teams and the overall weakness of the conference.


If the lose the veteran players without replacing some of the experience, they could very well tumble.  It would only take a difference of a very few games. 


And I would expect the Pacers to be a top 4 team again.

The rest below the Celtics, no one really knows.

Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2015, 09:44:22 AM »

Offline cb8883

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God I hope so. Need to tank hard next year. Hopefully finish dead last in the East. Brooklyn too. Need to tank really hard for 2016.

Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2015, 10:01:41 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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I don't think it is all that crazy to say the team could be worse next year. I would be surprised if they were worse, but it's still a possibility.

Honestly I only expect them to be 0-5 games better than last year, the difference is they should be doing it with less veterans and more young guys.
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Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2015, 10:04:59 AM »

Offline oldtype

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If we go into next season with more or less the same roster I think it's fair to expect a similar record. We'll lose a few games because the East is a bit better, but we'll also gain a few games because we'll have this team for the entire year.


Great words from a great man

Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2015, 10:27:51 AM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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I think it's very possible we could finish 10th-12th in the East next year.
We overachieved this season with a brilliant coach, a poor Eastern conference and the acquisition of IT, Zeller and Crowder. Even Ainge said they didn't expect to have such a good run.

If we lose Bass, Crowder and trade Evan Turner for a 2nd round pick, replacing him with a rookie, then we're hurting for a veteran presence.
Avery Bradley's contract is very tradeable, and he'll be getting calls about first round picks for sure.

I could easily see us drafting 2-3 guys, letting James Young get some serious minutes on the floor too.

What's most important here, besides losing Bass and potentially Crowder, is that the East will be stronger than last season. Yeah the conference is weak, but the East was crushed with injuries this season.
You've got to think that the following teams are at least 5-10 wins better this season than last season:

Pacers (Paul George back)
Miami (Bosh, Dragic, Whiteside, Wade)
Pistons (Reggie Jackson)
Bobcats (couldn't have had a worse season with Lance and then Vonleh, Walker getting injured)
New York (Carmelo returns from injury, #4 pick can be traded for proven player, cap space for 2 max players)

Even the Nets had a resurgence at the end of the season with Thadeus Young and Lopez coming back.
We finished above all those teams last season and the only team above us that I can see significantly regressing is potentially Toronto if they blow it up. They could just stand pat and hope to add a free agent too.

That's three to six teams that could easily be better than us in the East.
With no Bass, Crowder leaving for $$$, we are losing some serious veteran presence on the court. You've also got to assume that Ainge will shop Turner before his deal expires, ala Jordan Crawford- I can't really see any other reason why Ainge signed Turner other than you renovate and flip him on his good deal.

Would not be surprised if we finish bottom 4 or 5 in the East.
Good signs for us are that Marcus Smart will be healthy, Sully will have lost a tonne of weight in a contract year, and James Young will have had a season under his belt, with an offseason to work on his game.

Or we could get Kevin Love and DeAndre Jordan. Fingers crossed.

I think it has to be put into perspective how much this team would have to fall off for them to slip to the 10-12th ranks. Losing Crowder is highly unlikely, imo, so I'm not even going to consider that in this hypothetical. He's restricted and with the cap rising next season, I wouldn't be shocked if the Celtics match any offer sheet up to 8-9 million per year. The Celtics for the last 36 games of the season went 24-12. The schedule wasn't particularly tough, but no schedule in the East is particularly tough honestly. 36 games is roughly ~41% of a full season. It's actually a fairly large sample size and not a bad representation of potential future success. That W-L is a 66.6% win percentage, which equates to a ~55 win season over the length of 82 games.

Now, I don't think the Celtics are nearly good enough to actually win 55 games over the course of a season unless Smart and one of Sullinger or Olynyk break out offensively next season, and their win percentage was likely that high because of the weakish schedule. It cannot be ignored, though. A large reason the win percentage jumped up several levels was because of Crowder's increased role, and Smart's development as a perimeter defender. Post all star break, Smart was one of the best perimeter defenders in the league by the numbers. Not just for a rookie. The inclusion of IT as a 4th quarter finisher helped the Celtics maintain all of the leads they typically let slip away earlier in the season. The combination of these two factors allowed the Celtics to basically explode and go on huge streaks of wins. It also cannot be ignored that the Celtics faced their own injury issues in that 24-12 stretch with IT out for 8 games, Sullinger out for most of it, and Olynyk hurt at the beginning of it.

For the Celtics to slip to the 10-12th ranks in the East, they would have to win around 33-35 games. That is a 40% winning percentage. The Celtics dropping from a 66% winning percentage to a 40% winning percentage is incredibly unlikely as long as the defensive core of Smart, Bradley, and Crowder are on this roster next season to go along with IT. I also don't think it is likely for them to maintain a 66% winning percentage over the course of a season (breakouts withholding). It's more likely the truth is somewhere in between which would sit this current iteration of Celtics at around ~43-47 wins.

Yes, all of those teams will be better with their injured players back and what not, but the actual results of this Celtics team cannot be ignored. The only team on your list that is unarguably better than the Celtics while healthy is the Pacers. Every other team have too many question marks about fit and chemistry to be really worried about.

Also, by taking into account the injuries of other teams and their recoveries from said injuries, it is incredibly important to make note of the roster turnover of the Celtics. 9 or 10 trades in season? 40% of the starting lineup traded away? If the Celtics had fallen off a cliff, there were plenty of excuses already built in to support why they fell off. But they didn't. They launched off like a rocket instead. It says a lot about the character of this team, and it will be important when they go through their first training camp together, which is just as important as all of those teams getting injured players back.

This team needs a talent upgrade, but I don't see them falling off a cliff next season either because I believe Ainge loves all of the players that actually allowed the Celtics to lift off and streak (Smart, Crowder, IT, Bradley). I can't see any of these 4 players going anywhere without something good in return, and again, as long as these 4 are on this team, they will continue to grind and win.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 10:37:07 AM by DarkAzcura »

Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2015, 10:29:50 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I could see the young players show improvement and the overall team record go down.


Celtics slipped into the playoffs because of injuries to other teams and the overall weakness of the conference.


If the lose the veteran players without replacing some of the experience, they could very well tumble.  It would only take a difference of a very few games. 


And I would expect the Pacers to be a top 4 team again.

The rest below the Celtics, no one really knows.

I agree, TP.  I hope a lot of you guys do not bet on their record, I think them being worse is a distinct possibility depending on what happens.

Quote
I think it's very possible we could finish 10th-12th in the East next year.
We overachieved this season with a brilliant coach, a poor Eastern conference and the acquisition of IT, Zeller and Crowder. Even Ainge said they didn't expect to have such a good run.
Spot on, TP!

 Ainge stated we need talent folks:
Quote
"I feel we need to have a busy summer," Ainge told reporters at his end-of-season press conference. "We will have a busy summer. Hopefully we can get some things accomplished that we need to. I think we need to upgrade our talent level on our team, and at the same time I'm very excited about a lot of the individuals we have. Actually, all the individuals, I thought, played the best basketball of their careers in a lot of cases. So I'm excited about the players we have, at the same time I feel like we're not at the same level as a team like Cleveland. We found that out."

That is GM talk for we need some upgrades bad but I do not want to hurt the value of my assets.

Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2015, 10:33:51 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Imo Danny is not going to succeed in bringing in FAs or making a trade  this offseason. Plus there has been little to no rumors that players are available via trade market. The ones that are like deron williams, nobody really wants

Danny will make move via this upcoming trade deadline  to next offseason. That is a more likely possibility imo

Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2015, 10:50:10 AM »

Offline Rosco917

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Someone should enlighten Steve, and tell him when you have nothing to say, don't speak.

Way too early to make a statement like that.

Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2015, 11:16:03 AM »

Offline clover

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Imo Danny is not going to succeed in bringing in FAs or making a trade  this offseason. Plus there has been little to no rumors that players are available via trade market. The ones that are like deron williams, nobody really wants

Danny will make move via this upcoming trade deadline  to next offseason. That is a more likely possibility imo

I'd be okay with the slow growth if Danny can at least sign Koufos and swing a good swingman.

Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2015, 12:02:00 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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I think it's very possible we could finish 10th-12th in the East next year.
We overachieved this season with a brilliant coach, a poor Eastern conference and the acquisition of IT, Zeller and Crowder. Even Ainge said they didn't expect to have such a good run.

If we lose Bass, Crowder and trade Evan Turner for a 2nd round pick, replacing him with a rookie, then we're hurting for a veteran presence.
Avery Bradley's contract is very tradeable, and he'll be getting calls about first round picks for sure.

I could easily see us drafting 2-3 guys, letting James Young get some serious minutes on the floor too.

What's most important here, besides losing Bass and potentially Crowder, is that the East will be stronger than last season. Yeah the conference is weak, but the East was crushed with injuries this season.
You've got to think that the following teams are at least 5-10 wins better this season than last season:

Pacers (Paul George back)
Miami (Bosh, Dragic, Whiteside, Wade)
Pistons (Reggie Jackson)
Bobcats (couldn't have had a worse season with Lance and then Vonleh, Walker getting injured)
New York (Carmelo returns from injury, #4 pick can be traded for proven player, cap space for 2 max players)

Even the Nets had a resurgence at the end of the season with Thadeus Young and Lopez coming back.
We finished above all those teams last season and the only team above us that I can see significantly regressing is potentially Toronto if they blow it up. They could just stand pat and hope to add a free agent too.

That's three to six teams that could easily be better than us in the East.
With no Bass, Crowder leaving for $$$, we are losing some serious veteran presence on the court. You've also got to assume that Ainge will shop Turner before his deal expires, ala Jordan Crawford- I can't really see any other reason why Ainge signed Turner other than you renovate and flip him on his good deal.

Would not be surprised if we finish bottom 4 or 5 in the East.
Good signs for us are that Marcus Smart will be healthy, Sully will have lost a tonne of weight in a contract year, and James Young will have had a season under his belt, with an offseason to work on his game.

Or we could get Kevin Love and DeAndre Jordan. Fingers crossed.

The (unsubstantiated) argument is that we'll be worse next year if the roster stays the same, not if Danny deliberately tanks and trades our established players for picks.

Quick sidenote: if Danny traded ET for a 2nd rounder, it'd be a terrible move.


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Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2015, 12:04:30 PM »

Offline LGC88

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A bunch of nonsense.
What is with this negativity spreading around lately?
It becomes very tiring to read anything the past few days. Sick of it.

If you are afraid of the worst scenario, say so. We can talk about it and it will be an interesting debate.
If you have nothing to say, just shut up.
But please, stop with this negativity like they are facts, because they aren't.

Re: Steve Bulpett: Next year's team could be worse than this years
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2015, 12:36:42 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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A bunch of nonsense.
What is with this negativity spreading around lately?
It becomes very tiring to read anything the past few days. Sick of it.

If you are afraid of the worst scenario, say so. We can talk about it and it will be an interesting debate.
If you have nothing to say, just shut up.
But please, stop with this negativity like they are facts, because they aren't.

Yep. TP.

This thread has your typical CB pessimism deceptively guised as realism. A closer look reveals its irrationality.


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