Robert Upshaw Dismissal Question

[number_n9ne]

Does anyone actually know why he was dismissed twice? I can't find anything besides the vague "detrimental to the team" reasons. Links if possible.

[jpotter33]

Does anyone actually know why he was dismissed twice? I can't find anything besides the vague "detrimental to the team" reasons. Links if possible.

It was due to the Mary Jane, wasn't it?

[number_n9ne]

Does anyone actually know why he was dismissed twice? I can't find anything besides the vague "detrimental to the team" reasons. Links if possible.

It was due to the Mary Jane, wasn't it?

Was it though? I can't find anything that says that. Plus he must have been high every game for them to dismiss him over that...

[gpap]

I mentioned in another thread, that this is the guy to target at 16.

He provides what we REALLY need, a 7 footer who can shot block, defend and score
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/14/despite-transgressions-robert-upshaw-could-still-go-in-first-round/

His off-court issues are meaningless to me and there's no one else that excites me to be projected at 16.

We don't need a million small and power forwards. We need a center and one with some attitude as well.

Like one that can crush JR Smith's skull like a grape next season for what he did to Crowder.

[number_n9ne]

I mentioned in another thread, that this is the guy to target at 16.

He provides what we REALLY need, a 7 footer who can shot block, defend and score
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/14/despite-transgressions-robert-upshaw-could-still-go-in-first-round/

His off-court issues are meaningless to me and there's no one else that excites me to be projected at 16.

We don't need a million small and power forwards. We need a center and one with some attitude as well.

Like one that can crush JR Smith's skull like a grape next season for what he did to Crowder.

I saw this, still vague. I agree with what you are saying, and I think he is exactly the type of player we need. It's just not clear to me what he did to get dismissed twice.

[saltlover]

To be clear, here's is Uphaw's timeline:

He went to Fresno State out of high school.  He was suspended twice and then kicked off the team, all in his first year.  He said that was for drugs, although I don't believe the school said so one way or the other.  He was also the highest-rated recruit in Fresno State history, so to get kicked out of school in your first year takes some effort.

He transferred to Washington.  He had to sit out a year of playing due to NCAA rules, but could practice.  However, halfway through the season the coaches banished him from team activities.

As a junior, he played well and said the right things until being suddenly dismissed in late January, for "violation of team rules", which could or could not be drugs.  I can't link it on my phone, but I found the Washington athletic department drugs testing policy.  You get four positive tests before you're kicked out, assuming you follow the rules after the first three, which include things like meeting with parents/guardians, counseling, etc.  No mandatory suspension is called for, but one can be given at the coach/AD discretion.

Anyway, if Upshaw were kicked out of UW for drugs, that means he either tested positive four times in 18 months, or refused to follow the pretty lenient requirements after tests 1-3.  This would be on top of getting kicked out of Fresno State for drugs (allegedly), after presumably at least three positive tests in about 8 months (assuming that his first two suspensions were for drugs, and he was suspended immediately after the first test).

If it wasn't for drugs, then he was such a jerk he got suspended/kicked off his team three years in a row for other behavioral issues.  In either case (7+ positive tests for drugs in under three years, or being such a locker room cancer to get kicked out), it really is tough to chalk it up to one or two mistakes, and really does look like a long-term pattern of behavior.

[MBunge]

The fact that the reasons have not been made public is worrying.  On the one hand, we can be sure it's nothing criminal.  On the other hand, the lack of a specific reason for dismissal indicates that it may simply have been an overall personality/character problem, which is a lot harder to fix than just kid who made a few mistakes.

Totally take him if he's there at 28, though.

Mike

[libermaniac]

I say wait till pick 33.  If he's there, then take him.  Wouldn't give a guaranteed contract to such a ticking time bomb.

[hwangjini_1]

I mentioned in another thread, that this is the guy to target at 16.

He provides what we REALLY need, a 7 footer who can shot block, defend and score
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/14/despite-transgressions-robert-upshaw-could-still-go-in-first-round/

His off-court issues are meaningless to me and there's no one else that excites me to be projected at 16.

We don't need a million small and power forwards. We need a center and one with some attitude as well.

Like one that can crush JR Smith's skull like a grape next season for what he did to Crowder.

to be honest, i like upshaw, but even i see limits to his game. he is not the possessor of a great motor; he is very raw on offense; and his defense, aside from blocks is uneven, as well.

he is probably the 6th or so most talented big man this year...at best. add in the plethora of power forwards to the mix and you can see that upshaw does not lead the pack of talented big men. towns, okafur, WCS, turner, porzingis, porter, and kaminksy at least match his potential value, though in different ways.

but then, this year is amazingly stocked with centers and other big men.

now let's view his past. the real question is where are his priorities? a person's habits generally follow those. is he similar to sanders, late of milwaukee? off court issues carry meaning with them. they indicated maturity or lack of it, dedication or lack of it, and focus or lack of it.

it is not the specific issues per se, it is whether these issues are artifacts of more fundamental problems that may re-emerge in the future and limit a player's performance.

i dont think upshaw is a "bad" kid, but he does seem insecure and needs structure and guidance right now...my guess. so maybe CBS and the celtics are THE place for him. or maybe only time, and more crashing and burning will help.

i dont know the answer, but it is something to think about.

[saltlover]

The fact that the reasons have not been made public is worrying.  On the one hand, we can be sure it's nothing criminal.  On the other hand, the lack of a specific reason for dismissal indicates that it may simply have been an overall personality/character problem, which is a lot harder to fix than just kid who made a few mistakes.

Totally take him if he's there at 28, though.

Mike

I wouldn't find it troubling due to silence.  A lot of schools, particularly public ones, treat that sort of information as private, educational record data, and won't release it without permission of the student.  What's bad is the numerous times he was suspended or kicked off the team despite being the most talented player. 

[number_n9ne]

To be clear, here's is Winslow's timeline:

He went to Fresno State out of high school.  He was suspended twice and then kicked off the team, all in his first year.  He said that was for drugs, although I don't believe the school said so one way or the other.  He was also the highest-rated recruit in Fresno State history, so to get kicked out of school in your first year takes some effort.

He transferred to Washington.  He had to sit out a year of playing due to NCAA rules, but could practice.  However, halfway through the season the coaches banished him from team activities.

As a junior, he played well and said the right things until being suddenly dismissed in late January, for "violation of team rules", which could or could not be drugs.  I can't link it on my phone, but I found the Washington athletic department drugs testing policy.  You get four positive tests before you're kicked out, assuming you follow the rules after the first three, which include things like meeting with parents/guardians, counseling, etc.  No mandatory suspension is called for, but one can be given at the coach/AD discretion.

Anyway, if Upshaw were kicked out of UW for drugs, that means he either tested positive four times in 18 months, or refused to follow the pretty lenient requirements after tests 1-3.  This would be on top of getting kicked out of Fresno State for drugs (allegedly), after presumably at least three positive tests in about 8 months (assuming that his first two suspensions were for drugs, and he was suspended immediately after the first test).

If it wasn't for drugs, then he was such a jerk he got suspended/kicked off his team three years in a row for other behavioral issues.  In either case (7+ positive tests for drugs in under three years, or being such a locker room cancer to get kicked out), it really is tough to chalk it up to one or two mistakes, and really does look like a long-term pattern of behavior.

Great detective work, TP! But who is Winslow?

[Evantime34]

Upshaw originally got dismissed from Fresno State for multiple violations of team rules. This is the same Fresno state team that took on Chris Herren after he flamed out at BC for a coke addiction. Upshaw was the highest rated recruit Fresno State ever had so to be kicked off the team must have taken some doing.

Robert Upshaw, one of the top centers in the Class of 2012, was dismissed from Fresno State on Wednesday evening after his third violation of team rules since arriving at the school last fall. Terry previously suspended Upshaw twice in five weeks for undisclosed team rules violations,

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/fresno-state-dismisses-heralded-center-robert-upshaw-one-144749460.html

Drug use was one of the issues that led to his dismissal at Fresno State. He spent part of the summer after his freshman year at the Houston-based treatment program of John Lucas, a former NBA star whose career was derailed by substance abuse and who has gained national acclaim for helping rehabilitate athletes whose lives have careened off track.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/washington-dismisses-troubled-nba-prospect-robert-upshaw-013702065.html

Rarely do you go to a rehab/treatment program for weed, so it was probably a drug much worse than marijuana.

If you were thinking maybe he got dismissed because he had a tough coach...

Lorenzo Romar is not a hardline disciplinarian who tries to make example out of guys. Romar is a father figure coach who, by all accounts, is as invested in preparing his players for life after college as he is at winning basketball games.

Maybe there is a past history of the Washington coach dismissing players?

The obvious example that comes to mind is Venoy Overton.

In 2011, Overton was charged by Seattle police with providing alcohol to two 16-year-olds and engaging in sex acts with them.

Romar suspended him for the Pac-10 Tournament, allowing him to return for the NCAA Tournament. Overton did, and his lasting moment as a Husky is a ridiculously stupid heave at the end of a Round of 32 game against North Carolina that robbed Washington of an opportunity to upset the No. 2-seeded Tar Heels.

So essentially a guy who bought booze for minors in exchange for sex got a suspended for about a weekend.
http://www.nasorb.com/2015/01/26/lorenzo-romar-wouldnt-dismiss-robert-upshaw-without-good-reason/

[Csfan1984]

By his own words he was immature and not doing things he was supposed to. He also said he did so because he listened to the wrong poeple feeding him hype that he is a top ten pick, that he can disregard the rules.

So basically guy thought he could do what he wanted. He was flat out selfish and dumb. That is why he got booted 2x

[Evantime34]

By his own words he was immature and not doing things he was supposed to. He also said he did so because he listened to the wrong poeple feeding him hype that he is a top ten pick, that he can disregard the rules.

So basically guy thought he could do what he wanted. He was flat out selfish and dumb. That is why he got booted 2x

I'm not so sure about that. Several mocks have docked him after the combine, which to me indicates that they found out his story and it scared teams off.

[saltlover]

To be clear, here's is Winslow's timeline:

He went to Fresno State out of high school.  He was suspended twice and then kicked off the team, all in his first year.  He said that was for drugs, although I don't believe the school said so one way or the other.  He was also the highest-rated recruit in Fresno State history, so to get kicked out of school in your first year takes some effort.

He transferred to Washington.  He had to sit out a year of playing due to NCAA rules, but could practice.  However, halfway through the season the coaches banished him from team activities.

As a junior, he played well and said the right things until being suddenly dismissed in late January, for "violation of team rules", which could or could not be drugs.  I can't link it on my phone, but I found the Washington athletic department drugs testing policy.  You get four positive tests before you're kicked out, assuming you follow the rules after the first three, which include things like meeting with parents/guardians, counseling, etc.  No mandatory suspension is called for, but one can be given at the coach/AD discretion.

Anyway, if Upshaw were kicked out of UW for drugs, that means he either tested positive four times in 18 months, or refused to follow the pretty lenient requirements after tests 1-3.  This would be on top of getting kicked out of Fresno State for drugs (allegedly), after presumably at least three positive tests in about 8 months (assuming that his first two suspensions were for drugs, and he was suspended immediately after the first test).

If it wasn't for drugs, then he was such a jerk he got suspended/kicked off his team three years in a row for other behavioral issues.  In either case (7+ positive tests for drugs in under three years, or being such a locker room cancer to get kicked out), it really is tough to chalk it up to one or two mistakes, and really does look like a long-term pattern of behavior.

Great detective work, TP! But who is Winslow?

I guess I've got Justise on the brain!