Sherrod Blakely- C's to put a package deal for Aldridge and Matthews

[Ilikesports17]

So let me get this straight - just like 2013, when he tried to trade KG for Deandre Jordan, Ainge is attempting to trade some of our current players to get a guy who should have been a Celtic 6 years ago? *facepalm* Why, it's, it's, brilliant (sarcasm)! Ugh.

Btw, I love Wesley Matthews, but he's already to going to be 30 next year in addition to suffering that injury which certainly won't help his career going forward, and Aldridge isn't coming here, and he'll be 30 in July, so no thanks.  I'd say that Danny should just continue to build our team through the draft as opposed to gathering 'chips' and trading them for another rent-a-team with a 2-3 year window, but he's not good at that, so forget it.  Where can I put my head through a wall, lol ?

Captain Hindsight strikes again!

For real man, you can't point to every single player Ainge passed on who did something in the league and say "UGH! Ainge is horrible! How could he possibly miss DeAndre Jordan/Jimmy Butler etc. in the 2nd round!". Every GM in the league passed on those guys. Your holding him to some kind of impossible, made up standard where he's supposed to hit on every pick we have.

You look at it the wrong way. If you don't have a top 10-15 pick, the chances are MUCH greater that your pick washes out of the league in a few years than it is he becomes a real NBA caliber rotation player. Much like a baseball player at bat, there are ways to hit a higher percentage of those kinda of picks than your contemporaries but it will always be much more likely you fail than you getting a hit. Ainge has proven himself a very capable drafter. Probably top 10 in the league at it. And he's certainly a top 5 GM overall.

Do you not remember what it was like before Ainge? There's only a couple teams in league that wouldn't trade their GM for Ainge, and even the few that wouldn't would seriously consider it. What's the point of getting hung up on every player we didn't pick that turned into someone?

Sigh.  I'm not using hindsight for Deandre Jordan or Wesley Matthews at all, and I've explained my stance on this topic too many times that I honestly don't care anymore, lol .

I hope you didn't take offense to that, I see a lot of your posts around here and I respect your opinions. It just seems to me that whenever someone drafted late and/or near the spot we drafted at (regardless of how late in the draft it was), does something meaningful in the league, your the first one to say "Wow, Ainge is a horrible drafter, he didn't draft Player X when he had the chance, now look at what he's doing, we should've had him! Ugh!". That's 100% hindsight.

Ainge has drafted in the top 10 once in the past nine or ten years, last year, and Smart already looks much better than some of the guys drafted around him. He's picked a few guys who haven't panned out (JJJ, Fab Melo, Marcus Banks, Pruitt) but considering he's been in the league for over ten years and has only had one top-ten pick we actually kept he's had a lot more hits for where we've picked than misses. He's not the best drafter their is, but he's a pretty dang good one and considering everything else he does well we are lucky to have him.

I guess what I'm saying is, drafting after the top-10 is a true crapshoot. You can find valuable players later in the draft, and some guys are clearly better at it than others, but it's still much more likely the guy you pick washes out, and even the guys who are considered the best drafters have multiple misses in those areas of the draft. Like I said, when a baseball player bats .400, he still failed 60% of the time he batted, but we all consider that an amazing average because even for the best hitters it's still much more likely that you fail when you step up to the plate. Drafting in the NBA, especially later than the top 10 or so, should be viewed in much the same way. I just feel like your holding Ainge up to this impossible standard where he should be able to pick the guy who's going to have the greatest career of all the guys left on the board at every position in which he drafts. And that's just not fair, or realistic.

TP for BDeCosta26 and to Beat LA, who should we draft this year? Honest question no sarcasm.

Well, I know that this is going to sound like a cop-out, but it'll depend on, as always, who's available, unless of course you're asking me to state who I'd realistically take in a perfect world scenario, lol .

Absolutley that is completely relevant.

this excercize is meaningless but lets look at it this way

assuming we dont trade picks
Okafor
Towns
Russell
Winslow
Mudiay
Hezonja
Prozingis
Johnson
WCS
Turner
Oubre
Kaminsky
Grant
Booker
Lyles
Who do you want at 16?

[CoachBo]

So let me get this straight - just like 2013, when he tried to trade KG for Deandre Jordan, Ainge is attempting to trade some of our current players to get a guy who should have been a Celtic 6 years ago? *facepalm* Why, it's, it's, brilliant (sarcasm)! Ugh.

Btw, I love Wesley Matthews, but he's already to going to be 30 next year in addition to suffering that injury which certainly won't help his career going forward, and Aldridge isn't coming here, and he'll be 30 in July, so no thanks.  I'd say that Danny should just continue to build our team through the draft as opposed to gathering 'chips' and trading them for another rent-a-team with a 2-3 year window, but he's not good at that, so forget it. Where can I put my head through a wall, lol ?

I don't understand this thinking! I really don't! Why would you want to wait to build through the draft, when you can possibly put together a contending team right now??

And who cares if Aldridge or Matthews are 30 years old. They are 10 times better than anything we have right now and make us instant contenders.

Finally, building through the draft could take years and guarantees you nothing

Those two guys would not make us instant contenders - not even in the eastern conference.  I just don't want to sell the farm for another rental team with a short-term window.

Uh, yes. They would.

And remind me again how many champions are built exclusively through the draft - from the middle and late rounds.

I suppose this is the point where people start claiming Ainge is some sort of draft savant - when the record clearly belies that. Second biggest CelticsBlog myth, after the mythical greatness of Rajon Rondo.

Brings back fond memories of the poster Brickowski, who was irate over all the "assets" traded for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and said he was taking up another team. Who was right then?

You might as well understand that isn't the plan here. It never was, and it never should be.

[MBunge]

I suppose this is the point where people start claiming Ainge is some sort of draft savant - when the record clearly belies that.

I don't know what record you're referencing but history shows that Ainge is a very good drafter.  Not perfect, of course, but very good.  Almost all of the players Ainge has allegedly missed on were also "missed" by virtually everyone else in the league.

Mike

[gpap]

So let me get this straight - just like 2013, when he tried to trade KG for Deandre Jordan, Ainge is attempting to trade some of our current players to get a guy who should have been a Celtic 6 years ago? *facepalm* Why, it's, it's, brilliant (sarcasm)! Ugh.

Btw, I love Wesley Matthews, but he's already to going to be 30 next year in addition to suffering that injury which certainly won't help his career going forward, and Aldridge isn't coming here, and he'll be 30 in July, so no thanks.  I'd say that Danny should just continue to build our team through the draft as opposed to gathering 'chips' and trading them for another rent-a-team with a 2-3 year window, but he's not good at that, so forget it. Where can I put my head through a wall, lol ?

I don't understand this thinking! I really don't! Why would you want to wait to build through the draft, when you can possibly put together a contending team right now??

And who cares if Aldridge or Matthews are 30 years old. They are 10 times better than anything we have right now and make us instant contenders.

Finally, building through the draft could take years and guarantees you nothing

Those two guys would not make us instant contenders - not even in the eastern conference.  I just don't want to sell the farm for another rental team with a short-term window.

Not sure what "farm" you are referring to but I'd like to remind you that our current roster is comprised of nothing but role players.

If you're relying on this type of roster plus mid to late round picks to help this team win a championship, you're going to be waiting a long, long, long, long time.

Not to mention, aren't both LMA and Matthews free agents? Who says the Celts will have to give up anything to get them?

And as for the "not wanting a team a rental team with a short team window", I'd like to remind you what we accomplished with our last "rental" team with KG and Ray Allen.

-1 championship
-3 trips to the ECF
-6 consecutive trips to the playoffs.

I'd take that anytime.

Not to mention, we should've won three titles in a row if it wasn't for KG's injury.

[gpap]

So let me get this straight - just like 2013, when he tried to trade KG for Deandre Jordan, Ainge is attempting to trade some of our current players to get a guy who should have been a Celtic 6 years ago? *facepalm* Why, it's, it's, brilliant (sarcasm)! Ugh.

Btw, I love Wesley Matthews, but he's already to going to be 30 next year in addition to suffering that injury which certainly won't help his career going forward, and Aldridge isn't coming here, and he'll be 30 in July, so no thanks.  I'd say that Danny should just continue to build our team through the draft as opposed to gathering 'chips' and trading them for another rent-a-team with a 2-3 year window, but he's not good at that, so forget it. Where can I put my head through a wall, lol ?

I don't understand this thinking! I really don't! Why would you want to wait to build through the draft, when you can possibly put together a contending team right now??

And who cares if Aldridge or Matthews are 30 years old. They are 10 times better than anything we have right now and make us instant contenders.

Finally, building through the draft could take years and guarantees you nothing

Those two guys would not make us instant contenders - not even in the eastern conference.  I just don't want to sell the farm for another rental team with a short-term window.

Uh, yes. They would.

And remind me again how many champions are built exclusively through the draft - from the middle and late rounds.

I suppose this is the point where people start claiming Ainge is some sort of draft savant - when the record clearly belies that. Second biggest CelticsBlog myth, after the mythical greatness of Rajon Rondo.

Brings back fond memories of the poster Brickowski, who was irate over all the "assets" traded for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and said he was taking up another team. Who was right then?

You might as well understand that isn't the plan here. It never was, and it never should be.

Bring back Ryan Gomes and Wally Sczerbiak!

[Beat LA]

So let me get this straight - just like 2013, when he tried to trade KG for Deandre Jordan, Ainge is attempting to trade some of our current players to get a guy who should have been a Celtic 6 years ago? *facepalm* Why, it's, it's, brilliant (sarcasm)! Ugh.

Btw, I love Wesley Matthews, but he's already to going to be 30 next year in addition to suffering that injury which certainly won't help his career going forward, and Aldridge isn't coming here, and he'll be 30 in July, so no thanks.  I'd say that Danny should just continue to build our team through the draft as opposed to gathering 'chips' and trading them for another rent-a-team with a 2-3 year window, but he's not good at that, so forget it. Where can I put my head through a wall, lol ?

I don't understand this thinking! I really don't! Why would you want to wait to build through the draft, when you can possibly put together a contending team right now??

And who cares if Aldridge or Matthews are 30 years old. They are 10 times better than anything we have right now and make us instant contenders.

Finally, building through the draft could take years and guarantees you nothing

Those two guys would not make us instant contenders - not even in the eastern conference.  I just don't want to sell the farm for another rental team with a short-term window.

Uh, yes. They would.

And remind me again how many champions are built exclusively through the draft - from the middle and late rounds.

I suppose this is the point where people start claiming Ainge is some sort of draft savant - when the record clearly belies that. Second biggest CelticsBlog myth, after the mythical greatness of Rajon Rondo.

Brings back fond memories of the poster Brickowski, who was irate over all the "assets" traded for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and said he was taking up another team. Who was right then?

You might as well understand that isn't the plan here. It never was, and it never should be.

While I don't agree about Rondo, thank you for saying that about Ainge - TP.  How would Aldridge and Matthews make us instant contenders, though, because they certainly aren't going to be able to do so by themselves, and who are we giving up to get them? 

As for the draft, I'm not saying to build the team exclusively through it, but most teams find their franchise players this way, only to acquire more players as the years go by to form some sort of nucleus.  The Spurs, Pacers, and the old Celtic teams have done it this way, so why can't the trend continue?  Hell, Bird was able to construct his roster with only one top ten pick in Paul George, so it is certainly possible, especially with all of the picks we have to use. 

The other reason why we need to build through the draft is because no one is going to come here via free agency and suddenly turn the whole thing around.  Take Aldridge, for example.  Why would he come here, at 30 years old, when he could stay in Portland or go home to Texas and help to extend San Antonio's dynasty?  Signing with us doesn't make any sense for him, imo.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Does anyone know if we could potentially get 3 'max' level players via trade and free agency?

ie:

-get L Aldridge ($16 million) via trade (send out Wallace $10 million+ Bradley $8 million +Sullinger+picks)

-sign D Jordan as free agent ($20.1 million)

-sign and trade with Milwaukee to bring Khris Middleton here so his salary doesn't take us into the luxury tax? (send IT $7 million+Turner $3.3 million+ resigned Bass at $5 million)

Does something like the above have a *possibility* of working even if highly unlikely?

Saltlover?

Sure, it can work if we allow that all the teams and players would do it, as long as you drop Bass from the equation.  He messes it all up.  But you don't need him, so let's remove him from the deal.  But a couple of minor points:

The max salary for Jordan and Aldridge should be right around $19 million.  They're both getting the max, so we should account for it properly.

Secondly, below I'll discuss how it could be done similar to your idea, but with the Celtics sending out as little salary as possible, so you see how much room there is to work with your idea.

The order of events is that first DeAndre Jordan is signed with cap room.  This means we renounce Bass, which is why we need to take him out of your deal with Milwaukee.

Secondly, you can match up to $19.2 million in salaries for Aldridge with Wallace, Sullinger (or Olynyk), Pressey, and Babb.  That should be right at the max.  This lets you keep Bradley (for now).  (Also, you're obviously sending picks).  It also lessens the salary obligations Portland needs to take on for 2015, since Pressey and Babb aren't guaranteed.

For Middleton, you'll need to send out about $11 million in salary.  The trick is that since we've had to eliminate Bass from the equation, Thomas and Turner don't quite get you there ($10.3 mil combined).  However, Bradley and Turner do, as they combine for $11.1 million.

After doing that, you're still about $7.8 million below the tax, and $11.8 million below the hard cap (which the Celtics are subject to due to two sign-and-trades).  They also have a roster of the following:

Smart
Thomas
Middleton
Aldridge
Jordan
Olynyk
Zeller
Young
16th overall
28th overall

(I've assumed that Portland is getting future picks like something unprotected from Brooklyn, as opposed to our picks from this year.)

This means the C's could do all of the following if they stayed below the hard cap:

Sign a free agent with the room exception of $2.8 million (after Jordan, before all the other trades).
Sign their second-round picks to deals for longer than 2 years
Re-sign Crowder for a deal of no more than $6.2 million in year 1.
Keep a million banked to fill the 15th roster roster slot for a minimum player later in the year, as depth needs dictate.

Accordingly, yes, you can pretty much do what you described, but for the Bass issue, and you actually have a lot of extra room to maneuver (I didn't trade Thomas, for instance, and I kept all of our picks for this year).  I don't think for a second it will happen, but as a thought exercise, it is indeed possible for the Celtics to get three max players this summer, while retaining several of their key players from this past season.

Amazing that something like this is possible.
3 max free agents and retain IT and Crowder in a perfect world?
Your expertise is much appreciated.
 TP, TP, TP

saltlover, I don't know what you do for a living, but unless you REALLY love your day job and couldn't see doing anything else, you really need to become a GM

[Beat LA]

So let me get this straight - just like 2013, when he tried to trade KG for Deandre Jordan, Ainge is attempting to trade some of our current players to get a guy who should have been a Celtic 6 years ago? *facepalm* Why, it's, it's, brilliant (sarcasm)! Ugh.

Btw, I love Wesley Matthews, but he's already to going to be 30 next year in addition to suffering that injury which certainly won't help his career going forward, and Aldridge isn't coming here, and he'll be 30 in July, so no thanks.  I'd say that Danny should just continue to build our team through the draft as opposed to gathering 'chips' and trading them for another rent-a-team with a 2-3 year window, but he's not good at that, so forget it. Where can I put my head through a wall, lol ?

I don't understand this thinking! I really don't! Why would you want to wait to build through the draft, when you can possibly put together a contending team right now??

And who cares if Aldridge or Matthews are 30 years old. They are 10 times better than anything we have right now and make us instant contenders.

Finally, building through the draft could take years and guarantees you nothing

Those two guys would not make us instant contenders - not even in the eastern conference.  I just don't want to sell the farm for another rental team with a short-term window.

Not sure what "farm" you are referring to but I'd like to remind you that our current roster is comprised of nothing but role players.

If you're relying on this type of roster plus mid to late round picks to help this team win a championship, you're going to be waiting a long, long, long, long time.

Not to mention, aren't both LMA and Matthews free agents? Who says the Celts will have to give up anything to get them?

And as for the "not wanting a team a rental team with a short team window", I'd like to remind you what we accomplished with our last "rental" team with KG and Ray Allen.

-1 championship
-3 trips to the ECF
-6 consecutive trips to the playoffs.

I'd take that anytime.

Not to mention, we should've won three titles in a row if it wasn't for KG's injury.

I understand that, but at the same time, bringing KG and ray here was pretty much a once-in-a-lifetime thing, which will likely never be duplicated, so everyone needs to stop waiting for another scenario to take place, imo.  At least in 2007, we had our franchise player in Pierce and an up-and-coming guy in Al Jefferson, not to mention Rondo, but we don't have anything, or anyone, of that caliber right now.  What we do have, in abundance, is a bunch of role players, as you correctly pointed out, any I only mentioned 'the farm' because I can see Ainge trading a heap of guys for someone not named Aldridge or Love.

Btw, we would not have won the title in 2009, even with an injury-free Garnett, as Danny depleted our bench, let our glue guy walk, and failed to draft anyone who could help.  The Lakers were hell-bent on revenge, and beat us both times that year because we had no depth, and I really don't understand how people continue to underrate that 08-09 Cavs team.  Even if we had homecourt with KG, we were a year older and without a bench, and Cleveland wanted us badly, and understandably so.  They would have annihilated us, especially if they had hca that year.  Has everyone forgot how badly we were whipped in Cleveland that year, both with and without Garnett?  Only the Lakers won were able to win there, as well as another team at the end of the season when the Cavs chose to rest everybody.  Seriously, am I the only one here who remembers how good that team was?

[LarBrd33]

Any examples of two of a team's best players jumping ship to sign with another team together?

[JohnBoy65]

Any examples of two of a team's best players jumping ship to sign with another team together?

You could argue KG and Paul to Brooklyn. KG held all the power in that trade. If KG says no that trade doesn't go down. Paul and KG had to make the decision together to go to Brooklyn.

[Beat LA]

So let me get this straight - just like 2013, when he tried to trade KG for Deandre Jordan, Ainge is attempting to trade some of our current players to get a guy who should have been a Celtic 6 years ago? *facepalm* Why, it's, it's, brilliant (sarcasm)! Ugh.

Btw, I love Wesley Matthews, but he's already to going to be 30 next year in addition to suffering that injury which certainly won't help his career going forward, and Aldridge isn't coming here, and he'll be 30 in July, so no thanks.  I'd say that Danny should just continue to build our team through the draft as opposed to gathering 'chips' and trading them for another rent-a-team with a 2-3 year window, but he's not good at that, so forget it.  Where can I put my head through a wall, lol ?

Captain Hindsight strikes again!

For real man, you can't point to every single player Ainge passed on who did something in the league and say "UGH! Ainge is horrible! How could he possibly miss DeAndre Jordan/Jimmy Butler etc. in the 2nd round!". Every GM in the league passed on those guys. Your holding him to some kind of impossible, made up standard where he's supposed to hit on every pick we have.

You look at it the wrong way. If you don't have a top 10-15 pick, the chances are MUCH greater that your pick washes out of the league in a few years than it is he becomes a real NBA caliber rotation player. Much like a baseball player at bat, there are ways to hit a higher percentage of those kinda of picks than your contemporaries but it will always be much more likely you fail than you getting a hit. Ainge has proven himself a very capable drafter. Probably top 10 in the league at it. And he's certainly a top 5 GM overall.

Do you not remember what it was like before Ainge? There's only a couple teams in league that wouldn't trade their GM for Ainge, and even the few that wouldn't would seriously consider it. What's the point of getting hung up on every player we didn't pick that turned into someone?

Sigh.  I'm not using hindsight for Deandre Jordan or Wesley Matthews at all, and I've explained my stance on this topic too many times that I honestly don't care anymore, lol .

I hope you didn't take offense to that, I see a lot of your posts around here and I respect your opinions. It just seems to me that whenever someone drafted late and/or near the spot we drafted at (regardless of how late in the draft it was), does something meaningful in the league, your the first one to say "Wow, Ainge is a horrible drafter, he didn't draft Player X when he had the chance, now look at what he's doing, we should've had him! Ugh!". That's 100% hindsight.

Ainge has drafted in the top 10 once in the past nine or ten years, last year, and Smart already looks much better than some of the guys drafted around him. He's picked a few guys who haven't panned out (JJJ, Fab Melo, Marcus Banks, Pruitt) but considering he's been in the league for over ten years and has only had one top-ten pick we actually kept he's had a lot more hits for where we've picked than misses. He's not the best drafter their is, but he's a pretty dang good one and considering everything else he does well we are lucky to have him.

I guess what I'm saying is, drafting after the top-10 is a true crapshoot. You can find valuable players later in the draft, and some guys are clearly better at it than others, but it's still much more likely the guy you pick washes out, and even the guys who are considered the best drafters have multiple misses in those areas of the draft. Like I said, when a baseball player bats .400, he still failed 60% of the time he batted, but we all consider that an amazing average because even for the best hitters it's still much more likely that you fail when you step up to the plate. Drafting in the NBA, especially later than the top 10 or so, should be viewed in much the same way. I just feel like your holding Ainge up to this impossible standard where he should be able to pick the guy who's going to have the greatest career of all the guys left on the board at every position in which he drafts. And that's just not fair, or realistic.

TP for BDeCosta26 and to Beat LA, who should we draft this year? Honest question no sarcasm.

Well, I know that this is going to sound like a cop-out, but it'll depend on, as always, who's available, unless of course you're asking me to state who I'd realistically take in a perfect world scenario, lol .

Absolutley that is completely relevant.

this excercize is meaningless but lets look at it this way

assuming we dont trade picks
Okafor
Towns
Russell
Winslow
Mudiay
Hezonja
Prozingis
Johnson
WCS
Turner
Oubre
Kaminsky
Grant
Booker
Lyles
Who do you want at 16?

I actually think that 16 is the hardest pick to make, and let me explain why.  Not only to we have to be concerned with taking the best player, but the teams picking before our other spot at 28 present serious problems.  For the sake of argument, let's say that we take Upshaw at 16.  From that point on, Milwaukee, Houston, Chicago, Portland, Cleveland, San Antonio, and Memphis, not to mention the Lakers, have a shot at guys like Delon Wright and Tyler Harvey, both of whom I'd love to get.  Portland took Lillard from Weber, Chicago always seems to know what they're doing, Morey got Parsons in the second round and continues to draft extremely well, and then you've got the Spurs to worry about, as well as the Lakers. 

Alternatively, we could take Wright at 16, but then Upshaw would likely be scooped up by any of the aforementioned teams, so now he's gone, and I can see Harvey going to the Spurs or Blazers, especially with Ginobili likely retiring.

Finally, imagine this - we somehow get Wright at 16 and Harvey at 28, only to wait for Upshaw at 33.  Sounds great, right?  There's only one problem - Minnesota and Houston pick right before us in the second round, and I can't see either team passing on that guy.  Do you see what I'm getting at, here?  In a perfect world, we could get a fantastic haul this year, but in reality, we likely won't get any of those guys, either because they've already been taken or because Danny screws up.  Again.  Which would really hurt our future, imo.

[gpap]

So let me get this straight - just like 2013, when he tried to trade KG for Deandre Jordan, Ainge is attempting to trade some of our current players to get a guy who should have been a Celtic 6 years ago? *facepalm* Why, it's, it's, brilliant (sarcasm)! Ugh.

Btw, I love Wesley Matthews, but he's already to going to be 30 next year in addition to suffering that injury which certainly won't help his career going forward, and Aldridge isn't coming here, and he'll be 30 in July, so no thanks.  I'd say that Danny should just continue to build our team through the draft as opposed to gathering 'chips' and trading them for another rent-a-team with a 2-3 year window, but he's not good at that, so forget it. Where can I put my head through a wall, lol ?

I don't understand this thinking! I really don't! Why would you want to wait to build through the draft, when you can possibly put together a contending team right now??

And who cares if Aldridge or Matthews are 30 years old. They are 10 times better than anything we have right now and make us instant contenders.

Finally, building through the draft could take years and guarantees you nothing

Those two guys would not make us instant contenders - not even in the eastern conference.  I just don't want to sell the farm for another rental team with a short-term window.

Not sure what "farm" you are referring to but I'd like to remind you that our current roster is comprised of nothing but role players.

If you're relying on this type of roster plus mid to late round picks to help this team win a championship, you're going to be waiting a long, long, long, long time.

Not to mention, aren't both LMA and Matthews free agents? Who says the Celts will have to give up anything to get them?

And as for the "not wanting a team a rental team with a short team window", I'd like to remind you what we accomplished with our last "rental" team with KG and Ray Allen.

-1 championship
-3 trips to the ECF
-6 consecutive trips to the playoffs.

I'd take that anytime.

Not to mention, we should've won three titles in a row if it wasn't for KG's injury.

I understand that, but at the same time, bringing KG and ray here was pretty much a once-in-a-lifetime thing, which will likely never be duplicated, so everyone needs to stop waiting for another scenario to take place, imo.  At least in 2007, we had our franchise player in Pierce and an up-and-coming guy in Al Jefferson, not to mention Rondo, but we don't have anything, or anyone, of that caliber right now.  What we do have, in abundance, is a bunch of role players, as you correctly pointed out, any I only mentioned 'the farm' because I can see Ainge trading a heap of guys for someone not named Aldridge or Love.

Btw, we would not have won the title in 2009, even with an injury-free Garnett, as Danny depleted our bench, let our glue guy walk, and failed to draft anyone who could help.  The Lakers were hell-bent on revenge, and beat us both times that year because we had no depth, and I really don't understand how people continue to underrate that 08-09 Cavs team.  Even if we had homecourt with KG, we were a year older and without a bench, and Cleveland wanted us badly, and understandably so.  They would have annihilated us, especially if they had hca that year.  Has everyone forgot how badly we were whipped in Cleveland that year, both with and without Garnett?  Only the Lakers won were able to win there, as well as another team at the end of the season when the Cavs chose to rest everybody.  Seriously, am I the only one here who remembers how good that team was?

Both Aldridge and Matthews are unrestricted free agents, thus DA wouldn't have to give anyone up to get them.

Also, maybe both guys don't bring us to the finals next season by themselves, but it's a HUGE step in the right direction.

[JohnBoy65]

So let me get this straight - just like 2013, when he tried to trade KG for Deandre Jordan, Ainge is attempting to trade some of our current players to get a guy who should have been a Celtic 6 years ago? *facepalm* Why, it's, it's, brilliant (sarcasm)! Ugh.

Btw, I love Wesley Matthews, but he's already to going to be 30 next year in addition to suffering that injury which certainly won't help his career going forward, and Aldridge isn't coming here, and he'll be 30 in July, so no thanks.  I'd say that Danny should just continue to build our team through the draft as opposed to gathering 'chips' and trading them for another rent-a-team with a 2-3 year window, but he's not good at that, so forget it.  Where can I put my head through a wall, lol ?

Captain Hindsight strikes again!

For real man, you can't point to every single player Ainge passed on who did something in the league and say "UGH! Ainge is horrible! How could he possibly miss DeAndre Jordan/Jimmy Butler etc. in the 2nd round!". Every GM in the league passed on those guys. Your holding him to some kind of impossible, made up standard where he's supposed to hit on every pick we have.

You look at it the wrong way. If you don't have a top 10-15 pick, the chances are MUCH greater that your pick washes out of the league in a few years than it is he becomes a real NBA caliber rotation player. Much like a baseball player at bat, there are ways to hit a higher percentage of those kinda of picks than your contemporaries but it will always be much more likely you fail than you getting a hit. Ainge has proven himself a very capable drafter. Probably top 10 in the league at it. And he's certainly a top 5 GM overall.

Do you not remember what it was like before Ainge? There's only a couple teams in league that wouldn't trade their GM for Ainge, and even the few that wouldn't would seriously consider it. What's the point of getting hung up on every player we didn't pick that turned into someone?

Sigh.  I'm not using hindsight for Deandre Jordan or Wesley Matthews at all, and I've explained my stance on this topic too many times that I honestly don't care anymore, lol .

I hope you didn't take offense to that, I see a lot of your posts around here and I respect your opinions. It just seems to me that whenever someone drafted late and/or near the spot we drafted at (regardless of how late in the draft it was), does something meaningful in the league, your the first one to say "Wow, Ainge is a horrible drafter, he didn't draft Player X when he had the chance, now look at what he's doing, we should've had him! Ugh!". That's 100% hindsight.

Ainge has drafted in the top 10 once in the past nine or ten years, last year, and Smart already looks much better than some of the guys drafted around him. He's picked a few guys who haven't panned out (JJJ, Fab Melo, Marcus Banks, Pruitt) but considering he's been in the league for over ten years and has only had one top-ten pick we actually kept he's had a lot more hits for where we've picked than misses. He's not the best drafter their is, but he's a pretty dang good one and considering everything else he does well we are lucky to have him.

I guess what I'm saying is, drafting after the top-10 is a true crapshoot. You can find valuable players later in the draft, and some guys are clearly better at it than others, but it's still much more likely the guy you pick washes out, and even the guys who are considered the best drafters have multiple misses in those areas of the draft. Like I said, when a baseball player bats .400, he still failed 60% of the time he batted, but we all consider that an amazing average because even for the best hitters it's still much more likely that you fail when you step up to the plate. Drafting in the NBA, especially later than the top 10 or so, should be viewed in much the same way. I just feel like your holding Ainge up to this impossible standard where he should be able to pick the guy who's going to have the greatest career of all the guys left on the board at every position in which he drafts. And that's just not fair, or realistic.

TP for BDeCosta26 and to Beat LA, who should we draft this year? Honest question no sarcasm.

Well, I know that this is going to sound like a cop-out, but it'll depend on, as always, who's available, unless of course you're asking me to state who I'd realistically take in a perfect world scenario, lol .

Absolutley that is completely relevant.

this excercize is meaningless but lets look at it this way

assuming we dont trade picks
Okafor
Towns
Russell
Winslow
Mudiay
Hezonja
Prozingis
Johnson
WCS
Turner
Oubre
Kaminsky
Grant
Booker
Lyles
Who do you want at 16?

I actually think that 16 is the hardest pick to make, and let me explain why.  Not only to we have to be concerned with taking the best player, but the teams picking before our other spot at 28 present serious problems.  For the sake of argument, let's say that we take Upshaw at 16.  From that point on, Milwaukee, Houston, Chicago, Portland, Cleveland, San Antonio, and Memphis, not to mention the Lakers, have a shot at guys like Delon Wright and Tyler Harvey, both of whom I'd love to get.  Portland took Lillard from Weber, Chicago always seems to know what they're doing, Morey got Parsons in the second round and continues to draft extremely well, and then you've got the Spurs to worry about, as well as the Lakers. 

Alternatively, we could take Wright at 16, but then Upshaw would likely be scooped up by any of the aforementioned teams, so now he's gone, and I can see Harvey going to the Spurs or Blazers, especially with Ginobili likely retiring.

Finally, imagine this - we somehow get Wright at 16 and Harvey at 28, only to wait for Upshaw at 33.  Sounds great, right?  There's only one problem - Minnesota and Houston pick right before us in the second round, and I can't see either team passing on that guy.  Do you see what I'm getting at, here?  In a perfect world, we could get a fantastic haul this year, but in reality, we likely won't get any of those guys, either because they've already been taken or because Danny screws up.  Again.  Which would really hurt our future, imo.

I don't get your point. That's how a draft works. We pick someone and then another player gets drafted. The only way to make sure this doesn't happen is the Celtics get all 60 picks. You're point's correct, what you described is going to happen, but that happens to the best drafters and the worst drafters.

[Ilikesports17]

So let me get this straight - just like 2013, when he tried to trade KG for Deandre Jordan, Ainge is attempting to trade some of our current players to get a guy who should have been a Celtic 6 years ago? *facepalm* Why, it's, it's, brilliant (sarcasm)! Ugh.

Btw, I love Wesley Matthews, but he's already to going to be 30 next year in addition to suffering that injury which certainly won't help his career going forward, and Aldridge isn't coming here, and he'll be 30 in July, so no thanks.  I'd say that Danny should just continue to build our team through the draft as opposed to gathering 'chips' and trading them for another rent-a-team with a 2-3 year window, but he's not good at that, so forget it.  Where can I put my head through a wall, lol ?

Captain Hindsight strikes again!

For real man, you can't point to every single player Ainge passed on who did something in the league and say "UGH! Ainge is horrible! How could he possibly miss DeAndre Jordan/Jimmy Butler etc. in the 2nd round!". Every GM in the league passed on those guys. Your holding him to some kind of impossible, made up standard where he's supposed to hit on every pick we have.

You look at it the wrong way. If you don't have a top 10-15 pick, the chances are MUCH greater that your pick washes out of the league in a few years than it is he becomes a real NBA caliber rotation player. Much like a baseball player at bat, there are ways to hit a higher percentage of those kinda of picks than your contemporaries but it will always be much more likely you fail than you getting a hit. Ainge has proven himself a very capable drafter. Probably top 10 in the league at it. And he's certainly a top 5 GM overall.

Do you not remember what it was like before Ainge? There's only a couple teams in league that wouldn't trade their GM for Ainge, and even the few that wouldn't would seriously consider it. What's the point of getting hung up on every player we didn't pick that turned into someone?

Sigh.  I'm not using hindsight for Deandre Jordan or Wesley Matthews at all, and I've explained my stance on this topic too many times that I honestly don't care anymore, lol .

I hope you didn't take offense to that, I see a lot of your posts around here and I respect your opinions. It just seems to me that whenever someone drafted late and/or near the spot we drafted at (regardless of how late in the draft it was), does something meaningful in the league, your the first one to say "Wow, Ainge is a horrible drafter, he didn't draft Player X when he had the chance, now look at what he's doing, we should've had him! Ugh!". That's 100% hindsight.

Ainge has drafted in the top 10 once in the past nine or ten years, last year, and Smart already looks much better than some of the guys drafted around him. He's picked a few guys who haven't panned out (JJJ, Fab Melo, Marcus Banks, Pruitt) but considering he's been in the league for over ten years and has only had one top-ten pick we actually kept he's had a lot more hits for where we've picked than misses. He's not the best drafter their is, but he's a pretty dang good one and considering everything else he does well we are lucky to have him.

I guess what I'm saying is, drafting after the top-10 is a true crapshoot. You can find valuable players later in the draft, and some guys are clearly better at it than others, but it's still much more likely the guy you pick washes out, and even the guys who are considered the best drafters have multiple misses in those areas of the draft. Like I said, when a baseball player bats .400, he still failed 60% of the time he batted, but we all consider that an amazing average because even for the best hitters it's still much more likely that you fail when you step up to the plate. Drafting in the NBA, especially later than the top 10 or so, should be viewed in much the same way. I just feel like your holding Ainge up to this impossible standard where he should be able to pick the guy who's going to have the greatest career of all the guys left on the board at every position in which he drafts. And that's just not fair, or realistic.

TP for BDeCosta26 and to Beat LA, who should we draft this year? Honest question no sarcasm.

Well, I know that this is going to sound like a cop-out, but it'll depend on, as always, who's available, unless of course you're asking me to state who I'd realistically take in a perfect world scenario, lol .

Absolutley that is completely relevant.

this excercize is meaningless but lets look at it this way

assuming we dont trade picks
Okafor
Towns
Russell
Winslow
Mudiay
Hezonja
Prozingis
Johnson
WCS
Turner
Oubre
Kaminsky
Grant
Booker
Lyles
Who do you want at 16?

I actually think that 16 is the hardest pick to make, and let me explain why.  Not only to we have to be concerned with taking the best player, but the teams picking before our other spot at 28 present serious problems.  For the sake of argument, let's say that we take Upshaw at 16.  From that point on, Milwaukee, Houston, Chicago, Portland, Cleveland, San Antonio, and Memphis, not to mention the Lakers, have a shot at guys like Delon Wright and Tyler Harvey, both of whom I'd love to get.  Portland took Lillard from Weber, Chicago always seems to know what they're doing, Morey got Parsons in the second round and continues to draft extremely well, and then you've got the Spurs to worry about, as well as the Lakers. 

Alternatively, we could take Wright at 16, but then Upshaw would likely be scooped up by any of the aforementioned teams, so now he's gone, and I can see Harvey going to the Spurs or Blazers, especially with Ginobili likely retiring.

Finally, imagine this - we somehow get Wright at 16 and Harvey at 28, only to wait for Upshaw at 33.  Sounds great, right?  There's only one problem - Minnesota and Houston pick right before us in the second round, and I can't see either team passing on that guy.  Do you see what I'm getting at, here?  In a perfect world, we could get a fantastic haul this year, but in reality, we likely won't get any of those guys, either because they've already been taken or because Danny screws up.  Again.  Which would really hurt our future, imo.

But the idea is that you really like Harvey, Wright, and Upshaw?

I dont like Wright, Harvey and Upshaw Id like at 28 and 33, but harvey is a horrible horrible defender. like he got picked on at eastern washington.

Yikes

[byennie]

this excercize is meaningless but lets look at it this way

assuming we dont trade picks
Okafor
Towns
Russell
Winslow
Mudiay
Hezonja
Prozingis
Johnson
WCS
Turner
Oubre
Kaminsky
Grant
Booker
Lyles
Who do you want at 16?

In this scenario, I think you're looking at Hollis-Jefferson/Portis or maybe RJ Hunter if we're high on him. Portis would be a high-energy Bass replacement with some more upside. Jefferson would be a wing defender in the Smart mold, and might work if we were bringing a big scorer (or two) like Love to town. Hunter would be taking arguably the best shooter in the draft (pretty close with Booker).

It also seems like we'll have the option of grabbing a guy like Lyles, Booker or Kaminsky by moving up a few spots if necessary. Harder to get above around the ~12th pick.