Exploiting Regular Season Defense: The Celtics and Hawks and Empty Success

[Rondo9]

@ Csfan1984
I agree with what you write.
Just a minor detail- that Atlanta had the option to switch picks with Brooklyn does not make such a big difference, we all know Boston has a ****load of picks coming. As for salary cap, Ainge has spent money wisely, avoiding major commitments and getting arguably the team's best player (IT) on a steal of a contract.

Any franchise can do what Cleveland did: getting Lebron turns you into instantly into a contender. But what we have here is two teams that punched above their weight and  both deserve some credit for this.

Sure they get credit. They did great. I'm just think in terms of adding talent Hawks can get another rotation player at 15 or  go high boom/bust gamble player after winning a ton of games so that is lucky for them. And despite guys being FAs they get cap options at the same time. Celtics need to add big talent not another rotation guy so making playoffs doesn't work out too great.

You don't think the Celtics can add more talent? They have a ton assets and picks and flexibility to make things happen this year. At the same time Brad Stevens is doing a great job of developing the young players despite that none of them project to be a superstar.

[P stoff]

The one component that is not mentioned is the real difference between the spurs and Celts/Hawks:   

The Spurs have post options in 3 positions (Diaw, Duncan, Leonard)... the Hawks and Celts rarely post up anybody...and in a half court offense you need that option.  Period.

[Rondo9]

I thought the Hawks post up Milsap and Hortford.

[greece66]

Talent, sex and money are never enough.
All NBA teams want more talent.

[Celtics18]

I would love to see the Celtics build our next contender in a style that relies on ball movement, player movement, and getting everyone involved offensively while playing as one on the defensive end.

I guess I agree that getting that one transcendent star to carry the team on his shoulders is the easiest way to build a contender.

For me, though, seeing a well rounded team with less top level talent beat superstar teams is more rewarding.

I will always root for the more full team based approach for my squad.

[PhoSita]

I guess I agree that getting that one transcendent star to carry the team on his shoulders is the easiest way to build a contender.

This wasn't exactly what I was trying to point out, here.  I do agree, a team-based approach is great, both in terms of enjoying watching the team, and in terms of success.

Instead, I wanted to talk about what BBallBreakdown was noting, which is that it seems like much of the Hawks' success -- and, I posit, the Celtics' success -- this year was due to playing a style that took advantage of the lack of defensive discipline that many opponents have in defending the perimeter and rotating on defense in the regular season.

In the playoffs, it seems like the best teams have the ability to play a variety of styles, allowing them to adapt to any matchup and style of play.

Then you have teams that may not have that kind of versatility, but they succeed in a playoff atmosphere more so than a regular season one because they can play the more physical half-court style that playoff games often settle into.  Teams like the Grizzlies, Wizards, Bulls, Nets, etc might not be the toast of the regular season, but they can win in the dogfight of the playoffs by slowing the game down, ratcheting up defense, and using their size inside to pound the paint.

Maybe this is all meaningless extrapolation, but it seems like maybe this is a counterargument to the now very much in-vogue "pace and space" style.  That style can win you games in the regular season -- more than expected, as we saw with the Suns last year and the Celtics and Hawks this year, among other teams.  But it might not help you as much in the playoffs.

Just something to consider as the Celts move forward in the rebuild.  Do you build your team with the regular season in mind, or do you focus on building a team that can succeed in the playoffs, even if it makes it a bit harder to get there?

[TheFlex]

Every team is "exposed" in the playoffs. Peep the current state of the Warriors. The teams that win make adjustments to prevent prolonged exposure.

I guess, reluctantly, I see your point, but feel it's very overblown.

[Granath]

I stopped reading after hearing about how the Cs were "demolished" in the playoffs. The Cs were beaten, but the games were close and competitive. That's not getting demolished.

Furthermore, the Cs improved by almost 15 wins this year. That's not empty success in any way, shape or form.

[Future Celtics Owner]

TP to OP for this.

Screw the playoffs till we have our talent level more situated.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Great, pick those teams and forget all the history of the league. Teams who don't play the way our teams did, have a star or 2, and win a lot in the regular season never falter in the playoffs.  I can go year after year and pick teams polar opposite of Hawks and Celtics and they lose in the first round. Who knows if we get swept or make it to the next round if we, I don't know, didn't face the best player in the game AND his staked team! Hell, the Bulls have more in Rose than we do in many players put together, then Butler, Noah, Gasol, etc. and they can't beat a hobbled team that we stuck with at full health (until g4)!

The way the bulls are struggling, they might have won 1 game if we didn't help them by taking out KL and JR for 2 games! Again, I wish we faced this Cavs team they did today in our series!

[PhoSita]

Every team is "exposed" in the playoffs. Peep the current state of the Warriors. The teams that win make adjustments to prevent prolonged exposure.

I guess, reluctantly, I see your point, but feel it's very overblown.

Maybe so.  I love the pace and space teams.  I loved what the Hawks did this year.

It's important not to make too much of one team's playoff run, or a trend you see in one post-season.  But I think it's food for thought.

[PhoSita]

I stopped reading after hearing about how the Cs were "demolished" in the playoffs.

Then kindly don't reply, since you've not taken in any of the substance of the thread. 

[mr. dee]

I guess Raptors, Blazers and Pelicans are exposed too.

And there's our MVP and MVP runner-up also getting manhandled.

It's true that you need superstars to win. But you also need a system and complimentary players to win it all. Those ISO-ball that superstar plays needs to go. We already have a system and I see nothing wrong with it. We just lack the right personel.

[Ilikesports17]

The Max Contract is a big part of what makes this a superstar driven league.

Guys like Lebron and Anthony Davis are worth far more than the 20-30 % of the cap allotted to them.

Wade Bosh and Lebron all wanted to earn close to the max, and they did and they were unstoppable. The market value of those three was probably 35 mil 30 mil and 20 mil. Instead they were all retained for under 20 mil. If you build a team of very good players it becomes much harder to find guys performing at 5-15 mil above their salary cap number.

This summer, it is very possible that Kawhi Leonard  and Khris Middleton could receive very similar contracts despite Leonard being a far far superior player. this is a consequence of max contracts,

[PhoSita]

Paul Flannery put forth this idea / question in a similar, but naturally more eloquent, way:

One thing that's worth considering is regular-season success versus postseason play. I know, it's the oldest cliche in the book, but the playoffs are different. There are some really smart people around the league who have doubts about the Hawks and even the Warriors to some degree. In Atlanta's case, it's a lack of starpower, especially in a matchup with LeBron James. For Golden State, it's the lack of a scoring big man a la Tim Duncan, or perhaps a more apt example would be the Phoenix version of Amar'e Stoudemire.

The obvious problem there is there's only so many of those guys to go around. Failing that, do you build for regular season success and take your chances ... or wait until the right guy falls into your lap? The space-and-pace model combined with defensive effort gives you a chance to win games from November through April. Isn't that the primary goal?

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/5/13/8597455/phil-jackson-tweet-nba-three-point-shooting


Just sayin', it's not just me drumming this up out of thin air.  But the answer isn't clear, and as Flannery suggests, it might be, "Of course, build for regular season success if that's your best option."