Idea: Turner and Sully for the 15th pick.

[Celtics4ever]

Sully is getting closer to being an all-star PF.  Draft picks are a crapshoot.

Sully on D is not a crapshot, it is snake-eyes 9 out of 10 plays he is in on.

[BraxVitto]

Turner and Sully don't really satisfy their needs. But I bet they would be willing to trade it for AB.

[Csfan1984]

Poll turned out interesting. I of course disagree with the views Turner and Sully would not fit in Atlanta but the fact so many people believe Sully is better value than the 15th pick wasn't expected.  Guess his attitude, conditioning issue, and impending RFA didn't way as much for others as it did for me.

[Granath]

Poll turned out interesting. I of course disagree with the views Turner and Sully would not fit in Atlanta but the fact so many people believe Sully is better value than the 15th pick wasn't expected.  Guess his attitude, conditioning issue, and impending RFA didn't way as much for others as it did for me.

#1 - He's good for at least 13/8 a game, which is better than most mid round picks. Quite possibly he's good for more than that.
#2 - He just turned 23
#3 - RFA doesn't mean squat

Bad deal for the Cs.

[CelticGuardian]

Too much value for 15th pick... we should be looking to get rid of picks not add more, something like KO and a second round pick to the Thunder for the 14th pick is more viable.

[Celtics4ever]

Poll turned out interesting.

I voted turned by C's and I think Sully is the pyrite of the NBA, that easily fools guys who see 13/8 but do not understand the nuances of defense. We have the 16th pick was my reason, why would we trade for 15?   It is so close in value to what we have.  This has nothing to do with Sully's value in my case.  I did not think it was enough of a move up for us to make an impact.

[slamtheking]

Poll turned out interesting. I of course disagree with the views Turner and Sully would not fit in Atlanta but the fact so many people believe Sully is better value than the 15th pick wasn't expected.  Guess his attitude, conditioning issue, and impending RFA didn't way as much for others as it did for me.

if this really surprised you, you don't pay attention to many of the threads posted.  There's a handful of posters that disparage Sully for basically 1 or 2 reasons: His weight/fitness and his defense.

While most would agree it'd be great if he were in better shape (some people won't be happy unless he's sporting washboard abs) he still makes a solid contribution as is.  losing the weight is no guarantee his D improves either.  what would likely improve his D is playing with a center who's really good on D.

in any case, it's not terribly likely that whoever is available at #15 in this year's draft would be nearly as good as Sully at any point so it's a bad deal

[CelticGuardian]

Poll turned out interesting. I of course disagree with the views Turner and Sully would not fit in Atlanta but the fact so many people believe Sully is better value than the 15th pick wasn't expected.  Guess his attitude, conditioning issue, and impending RFA didn't way as much for others as it did for me.

if this really surprised you, you don't pay attention to many of the threads posted.  There's a handful of posters that disparage Sully for basically 1 or 2 reasons: His weight/fitness and his defense.

While most would agree it'd be great if he were in better shape (some people won't be happy unless he's sporting washboard abs) he still makes a solid contribution as is.  losing the weight is no guarantee his D improves either.  what would likely improve his D is playing with a center who's really good on D.

in any case, it's not terribly likely that whoever is available at #15 in this year's draft would be nearly as good as Sully at any point so it's a bad deal

He's our best rebounder, if we do move him we need somebody who will fill the void, the draft won't be the answer. Olynyk is more dispensable at this point.

[slamtheking]

Poll turned out interesting. I of course disagree with the views Turner and Sully would not fit in Atlanta but the fact so many people believe Sully is better value than the 15th pick wasn't expected.  Guess his attitude, conditioning issue, and impending RFA didn't way as much for others as it did for me.

if this really surprised you, you don't pay attention to many of the threads posted.  There's a handful of posters that disparage Sully for basically 1 or 2 reasons: His weight/fitness and his defense.

While most would agree it'd be great if he were in better shape (some people won't be happy unless he's sporting washboard abs) he still makes a solid contribution as is.  losing the weight is no guarantee his D improves either.  what would likely improve his D is playing with a center who's really good on D.

in any case, it's not terribly likely that whoever is available at #15 in this year's draft would be nearly as good as Sully at any point so it's a bad deal

He's our best rebounder, if we do move him we need somebody who will fill the void, the draft won't be the answer. Olynyk is more dispensable at this point.

I agree

[Granath]

Poll turned out interesting.

I voted turned by C's and I think Sully is the pyrite of the NBA, that easily fools guys who see 13/8 but do not understand the nuances of defense. We have the 16th pick was my reason, why would we trade for 15?   It is so close in value to what we have.  This has nothing to do with Sully's value in my case.  I did not think it was enough of a move up for us to make an impact.

Simply put, Sully isn't horrible on defense. He's not a shot blocker by any means but he's not a defensive liability either. In every advanced metric I came across he ranks higher than Bass. His lack of a decent center hurts him as it does everyone on the team.

[Celtics4ever]

Simply put, Sully isn't horrible on defense

Yes, Granath,, he is and your in denial.  Please note Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production, opponents field goal. 

http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS19.HTM

Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.
On Court 107.1
Off Court  105.3
+1.8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6vCOqV53sY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS7vHsK4wHE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnM8W2MHly4

He does some things well, like rebound and has has some great hands but defense is not one of them.  Stevens even said him coming back that he would not compromise our defensive integrity which was not a glowing endorsement.   

What metrics are you using?  Because some other posters here showed that he was the worst defender.

This was well known even when he was drafted.

Weaknesses: Lacks the overall physical gifts of other top prospects in the draft class. Appears stuck in glue at times, particularly against long, athletic competition. His space-creating advantage and wide base are nullified. No elevation off the floor and severely limited explosion. Plays beneath the rim. Run the courts laboriously. Lateral quickness is poor- badly exposed in space and on pick and roll switches. Undersized for the center position, a shortcoming he does not make up for in length. Major concerns defensively against new breed, mobile NBA 4’s. Not an intimidating presence on the back line of a defense. Less than a blocked shot per game in conference play, and does not alter attempts either. Averaged more steals than blocks. Position defender. He’s overwhelmed by size, length and athleticism on both sides of the ball. The majority of his dominant efforts came against lesser competition and teams devoid of frontline size. His 5/19 performance in his final collegiate game against Kansas did not aid his draft standing. His body style will always be susceptible to weight issues. Can’t afford to rest on his laurels and be satisfied with current level of conditioning and agility if he wants to remain in the lottery.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jared-sullinger

Sadly, he might have even got worse in this area, with him being so out of shape.

[Evantime34]

Simply put, Sully isn't horrible on defense

Yes, Granath,, he is and your in denial.  Please note Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production, opponents field goal. 

http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS19.HTM

Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.
On Court 107.1
Off Court  105.3
+1.8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6vCOqV53sY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS7vHsK4wHE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnM8W2MHly4

He does some things well, like rebound and has has some great hands but defense is not one of them.  Stevens even said him coming back that he would not compromise our defensive integrity which was not a glowing endorsement.   

What metrics are you using?  Because some other posters here showed that he was the worst defender.

This was well known even when he was drafted.

Weaknesses: Lacks the overall physical gifts of other top prospects in the draft class. Appears stuck in glue at times, particularly against long, athletic competition. His space-creating advantage and wide base are nullified. No elevation off the floor and severely limited explosion. Plays beneath the rim. Run the courts laboriously. Lateral quickness is poor- badly exposed in space and on pick and roll switches. Undersized for the center position, a shortcoming he does not make up for in length. Major concerns defensively against new breed, mobile NBA 4’s. Not an intimidating presence on the back line of a defense. Less than a blocked shot per game in conference play, and does not alter attempts either. Averaged more steals than blocks. Position defender. He’s overwhelmed by size, length and athleticism on both sides of the ball. The majority of his dominant efforts came against lesser competition and teams devoid of frontline size. His 5/19 performance in his final collegiate game against Kansas did not aid his draft standing. His body style will always be susceptible to weight issues. Can’t afford to rest on his laurels and be satisfied with current level of conditioning and agility if he wants to remain in the lottery.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jared-sullinger

Sadly, he might have even got worse in this area, with him being so out of shape.

Tp for bringing it to my attention that the 82 games numbers are now up.

[tazzmaniac]

I don't see the trade working for the Hawks but I'd happily trade Sully for the #15 pick.  Getting the #15 pick would enhance our chances of trading up in this draft.  I don't have much interest in retaining Sully when he becomes an RFA after next season and I don't see anyone giving us a better offer than the #15 for Sully.  I also don't see him as a good fit for the CBS system.  To be effective, Sully needs to be in the post not outside shooting 3s. 

[Eja117]

I sorta have to agree with Roy. As much as I'm not a huge fan of Sully these days, and as much as I feel like he's not a good defender, and not overly motivated, and as much as I feel like this is addition by subtraction, I just feel we've already seen what he can do and it's pretty good. If he gets his head on straight, gets in shape, and dedicates himself to defense (all possible) he could be worth way more than this, and if he doesn't he can probably still be traded for about this give or take. There's just not that much upside here.

[Granath]

Simply put, Sully isn't horrible on defense

Yes, Granath,, he is and your in denial.  Please note Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production, opponents field goal. 

http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS19.HTM

Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.
On Court 107.1
Off Court  105.3
+1.8

It's "you're" and not "your". I could find 3 videos on Lebron that would suggest he is a subpar defender as well, so your video examples aren't worth anything either.

Anyone can pull a metric out of their ass. Using that same metric, KO looks like a stud defender with a -3.0. Does anyone in their right mind think Kelly Olynyk is an elite defender? Reliance on a single statistic doesn't work very well when that statistic is rather suspect.

One very simple reason for this metric is that the team started playing better team defense once Rondo and Green were sent packing. Sully's injury (which occurred after the team started turning things around) denied him the statistical benefit of the bulk of the team's improved play the last half of the season - the majority of that improvement being on the defensive. Some short-sighted, incorrect folks like to try to time the turnaround to Sully's injury, but it most directly equates to the trade of Green. The Cs played about .500 ball post Green until Sullinger went down.

Furthermore, Sully spent a fair number of minutes grossly out of position at Center last year. 3 of his top 7 rotations in minutes played had him at Center. He can't play there and doesn't belong there. His Net 48 is significantly worse there. That's just a poor use of him.

DRating and D +/- are not horrible for Sullinger. They're not good, but they're not that bad either. No one is saying that Sullinger is even an average defender. But "horrible"? Not even close.

This isn't necessarily directed at you C4Ever, but I find it amazing that there's fair contingent of people who are ready to give up on a guy who just turned 23 years old and is the team's most consistent rebounder and scorer. A guy who was averaging 16/9 the last 15 or so games before he got hurt at just 22 years old. Actually, I don't find it amazing. This is CelticsBlog after all and they'd find a way to nitpick Bill Russell if he were still playing.

So they make crap up and cherry pick statistics to try to show that he's a scrub and want to give him away for pennies on the dollar. Thank goodness these geniuses aren't running the team. Now is exactly when you don't sell Sullinger. His trade value isn't that high right now due to the injury.  If he comes back to camp overweight again, it won't hurt his value to trade him at that point. But if he comes back to camp motivated and in shape - and it sounds like he realized this is something he needs to do - then you have something valuable. That's going to translate to better play on the court and the team will have a more valuable asset to either resign or trade to someone else.

Unless the offer is great Sully isn't getting moved this offseason. Danny NEVER talks down an asset before trading it.