Was this playoff appearance worth it?

[libermaniac]

Would've been nice to get the 8th seed and get ATL.  The C's would be competing in that series.

[GetLucky]

Set us back a few years. Absolutely not. These games haven't even been close when LeBron has actually been trying.

You sound like Skip Bayless. "Trying." Please, this is the playoffs, LBJ is trying. We were within 3 with a couple minutes to go last night. LBJ is an All-Time Great; those types don't leave it to the last act to pull out a win when the consequence could be another game or two to close the series.

He definitely is trying. Maybe that poster didn't see the block Lebron had on Evan Turner.

And did anyone catch what Lebron said afterwards to Turner. It looked like he was saying, I blocked that right? That was pretty funny.

LeBron said: "You tried... You tried... But I blocked you."

I guess that's what Turner gets for poking the bear after game 82.

(For those who don't know what I'm referring to, after the last game of the season, LeBron went over to our bench to shake hands and tell everyone, "Good season." While he was walking, Turner grabs his shirt from behind, turns him around, and says something to the effect of, "We're playing you next week, and I'm guarding you. You better watch out." LeBron just laughed and walked away, However, it looks like he's made a point to trash talk or take an iso against Evan Turner every time they're both on the court.)

[Chief Macho]

Sure, if only to keep Stevens interested.

[celticsclay]

Set us back a few years. Absolutely not. These games haven't even been close when LeBron has actually been trying.

You sound like Skip Bayless. "Trying." Please, this is the playoffs, LBJ is trying. We were within 3 with a couple minutes to go last night. LBJ is an All-Time Great; those types don't leave it to the last act to pull out a win when the consequence could be another game or two to close the series.

While I agree that LeBron has been "trying" in this series, I do believe in the concept of "gears."  Ex-NBA players and coaches talk about this idea all the time.  Great players figure out how to play in different gears to sustain themselves over long regular seasons and step up when their team needs them.

To my eye, LeBron hasn't needed to go into top gear in this series, except for stretches here and there, where he scores seemingly at will.

Could you put up some sort of chart that shows what gears Lebron has and when he uses them? For the average viewer look me it looks like he is trying very very hard. He played 42 minutes and took 26 shots last night!

[celticsclay]

WOW!!! What a loser mentality on here. Watching our team get swept in the first round is fun?

Do you guys think this is the new little league and everyone gets a trophy?

Of course it wasn't worth it, this is why the top 1/10th of 1% have everything, unreal.

I never have used how a fan enjoys a sporting event to explain the economy before. I must have missed so many things.

[KeepRondo]

Set us back a few years. Absolutely not. These games haven't even been close when LeBron has actually been trying.

You sound like Skip Bayless. "Trying." Please, this is the playoffs, LBJ is trying. We were within 3 with a couple minutes to go last night. LBJ is an All-Time Great; those types don't leave it to the last act to pull out a win when the consequence could be another game or two to close the series.

He definitely is trying. Maybe that poster didn't see the block Lebron had on Evan Turner.

And did anyone catch what Lebron said afterwards to Turner. It looked like he was saying, I blocked that right? That was pretty funny.

LeBron said: "You tried... You tried... But I blocked you."

I guess that's what Turner gets for poking the bear after game 82.

(For those who don't know what I'm referring to, after the last game of the season, LeBron went over to our bench to shake hands and tell everyone, "Good season." While he was walking, Turner grabs his shirt from behind, turns him around, and says something to the effect of, "We're playing you next week, and I'm guarding you. You better watch out." LeBron just laughed and walked away, However, it looks like he's made a point to trash talk or take an iso against Evan Turner every time they're both on the court.)

thx for the lead up to that play. Was that Flagrant 1 after the block or before?

[LarBrd33]

That also doesn't answer the question of what you posit as a plan, or seeing worth in somethign different than your vision. I don't even know what you think. you dismiss any progress made, and you dismiss lottery (maybe? can't tell). So, what is your idea of a plan.

I don't believe the Celts are certain to be mired in mediocrity.  In fact, I believe in Danny Ainge to find a way to the promised land again.

I just can't figure out a plausible path to get there right now.  It's too murky.  I spend so much time wracking my brain trying to figure out how the Celtics are going to become exciting and genuinely competitive again, and I just don't know.  There's too much uncertainty.  That's frustrating.

I'm sure there were plenty of Rockets fans that felt the same way a few years ago.  A smart GM with assets and resources can make good stuff happen in just a few years time.  But the Celts might not get lucky.  We don't know.

I suppose it just bothers me when I feel that others are acting like there's a clear path, or that it's a sure thing.  Because I don't see it.  That's not to say it won't happen.  But I can appreciate what people find appealing about the Sixers, and especially the Pelicans.  Because the plan there is strikingly obvious, even if it is uncertain.

Pho, you're entirely right.  The team isn't in a great position right now.  It's very possible we'll be a 32-45 win team for the foreseeable future.  We have a lot of middling assets to include in trades and some cap space.  Plenty of teams can outbid us in the trade market and there are more desirable destinations for free agents.   The team is very well managed, though.  Ainge knows what he's doing.   If the opportunity presents itself, he'll jump.  The opportunity might not present itself.  Not going to be shocked if we're trying to tank next year.   It's not easy to land superstars and you can't compete without one.

I agree for the most part, and it's certainly frustrating to wonder what direction we are actually headed in. I think from listening to Ainge's explanations this season that he severely misjudged how well this team would perform post All Star break.
In my opinion he thought trading Rondo and Green would guarantee us a top 5 or 6 pick, and acquiring IT was a nice little cherry for seeing them go.

Some fans are in denial about it, but I don't there there's any doubt whatsoever that Ainge intended to bottom out this team this year.  All his quotes this season paint the picture of a guy who is keenly aware that making the playoffs with a below .500 record and getting swept isn't very beneficial. 

There's been 3 shifts this season, IMO.

#1 - Surround Rondo with superstar talent.  Top target was Love.  They would have tried to find some clever way to land Melo as well.  Had we landed Love early enough, we would have tried to fill out the roster by making a play for very available players like Asik and Afflalo.    -  We failed to land the superstar and abandoned the plan.

#2 - Get rid of all quality vets and bottom out.  Land the superstar prospect we failed to get by tanking last year.  -  That failed, because Stevens is an exceptional coach.

#3 -  Oops.. we've played ourselves out of a Top 5 pick.  Ugh.  Well... at least give them a shot and hope we can carry the good vibes into free agency (hence trying to sign McGee).  At least try to keep Stevens entertained so he doesn't jump ship to the College ranks (very real possibility in the next couple years if we don't continue forward momentum)

But the bulk of this season was dedicated to bottoming out again.   Aside from Bass, we squeezed every last drop of value out of our veteran contributors.  Had we added a top 5 pick to this roster, we'd be in pretty good position.   

As for the Thomas trade... that was on the cusp of the team realizing they wouldn't be getting a top 5 pick.  I think that was more just motivated by snatching up a valuable player on a discount.  He's a more tradeable asset this summer than the pick we gave up.   He helped us win a bit more, but it was clear even with him injured this team was overachieving their way into the also-ran playoff spot.

[Fafnir]

I have enjoyed the playoffs and the late season win streak ...

But I would have enjoyed getting a young prospect via the lottery and watching him play here over the next 5+ years even more.

Yeah I think either scenario has some good upside. I'd prefer another high level prospect too, but the good news is either way I think the C's are well setup for the future.

Its nice to have some fun basketball to watch compared to last year and the early parts of this year of poor play.

[LarBrd33]

I have enjoyed the playoffs and the late season win streak ...

But I would have enjoyed getting a young prospect via the lottery and watching him play here over the next 5+ years even more.

Yeah I think either scenario has some good upside. I'd prefer another high level prospect too, but the good news is either way I think the C's are well setup for the future.

Its nice to have some fun basketball to watch compared to last year and the early parts of this year of poor play.

The high of making the playoffs will be over Sunday with the realization that we simply didn't belong.  Soon, nobody will remember that Boston even made it.  You'll have several weeks of relevant teams playing in games that matter.   You'll watch the excitement over the lotto balls next month, but you'll be on the outside looking in while comparable teams to ours take steps forward.  Come draft time, when prospect hype is at it's apex and you begin to understand how good some of these kids can be... you'll be envious, angry and depressed.  You're not going to enjoy picking #16 and watching Philly land another superstar prospect.  We'll just be another 32-45 win team filled with role players and teams like that will have a clear path towards real NBA success.   

That's not just Philly, mind you.  Watching the Knicks add a top 4 pick to Melo (and whoever they sign in free agency) will suck.  Watching the Lakers add Kevin Love, Rondo and a top 4 pick to Kobe and Randle will suck.   Watching Andrew Wiggins land a sidekick with superstar potential will suck.     

Ainge will try his best to make a splash with our middling assets.  We'll give the free agency pitch to anyone who will listen.   But there's no direct path towards relevance for us.  I have hope, but nothing concrete to rest that hope on.    This playoff hiccup will be a distant memory soon enough.   If we're on our way to another sub 500 season, nobody is going to care that we snuck into the playoffs the year before.  Ask 2013 Philly how much their success in the 2012 playoffs mattered.  A year after upsetting the #1 seed Bulls and taking the Celtics to 7 games, their lack of talent landed them right back in the lotto where they belonged.

[Evantime34]

The thing I'm confused about with this debate is if we were to not make the playoffs how would we have gone about that? Would people have rather the C's started Young, Pressey, Gigi, Wallace and Jerebko for the last 5 games to openly tank? Would you have rather they kept Rondo and then not got the picks? Would you rather we not have traded for Thomas?

It's easy to answer the question would you rather have had a higher pick or a lower one and made the playoffs. The question I want answered is if you would have preferred they not make the playoffs what would you have liked the C's to have done differently?

[PhoSita]

The thing I'm confused about with this debate is if we were to not make the playoffs how would we have gone about that? Would people have rather the C's started Young, Pressey, Gigi, Wallace and Jerebko for the last 5 games to openly tank? Would you have rather they kept Rondo and then not got the picks? Would you rather we not have traded for Thomas?

It's easy to answer the question would you rather have had a higher pick or a lower one and made the playoffs. The question I want answered is if you would have preferred they not make the playoffs what would you have liked the C's to have done differently?

I'm not saying I would have preferred this path, but I think the path to missing the playoffs this year was pretty clear.

At the deadline, Ainge dumps or just flat out waives Prince, Thornton, and Bass.

So take the team we've had for the last few months and subtract Thomas, Bass, Jerebko, and Datome.  I think that's enough to ensure they miss the playoffs by 5 games or so.

In this scenario, the team probably ends up with a pick in the back half of the lottery anyway, though.  Having Thomas is probably better than that, and I still think the Celts can move up if they want.

[celticsclay]

I have enjoyed the playoffs and the late season win streak ...

But I would have enjoyed getting a young prospect via the lottery and watching him play here over the next 5+ years even more.

Yeah I think either scenario has some good upside. I'd prefer another high level prospect too, but the good news is either way I think the C's are well setup for the future.

Its nice to have some fun basketball to watch compared to last year and the early parts of this year of poor play.

The high of making the playoffs will be over Sunday with the realization that we simply didn't belong.  Soon, nobody will remember that Boston even made it.  You'll have several weeks of relevant teams playing in games that matter.   You'll watch the excitement over the lotto balls next month, but you'll be on the outside looking in while comparable teams to ours take steps forward.  Come draft time, when prospect hype is at it's apex and you begin to understand how good some of these kids can be... you'll be envious, angry and depressed.  You're not going to enjoy picking #16 and watching Philly land another superstar prospect.  We'll just be another 32-45 win team filled with role players and teams like that will have a clear path towards real NBA success.   

That's not just Philly, mind you.  Watching the Knicks add a top 4 pick to Melo (and whoever they sign in free agency) will suck.  Watching the Lakers add Kevin Love, Rondo and a top 4 pick to Kobe and Randle will suck.   Watching Andrew Wiggins land a sidekick with superstar potential will suck.     

Ainge will try his best to make a splash with our middling assets.  We'll give the free agency pitch to anyone who will listen.   But there's no direct path towards relevance for us.  I have hope, but nothing concrete to rest that hope on.    This playoff hiccup will be a distant memory soon enough.   If we're on our way to another sub 500 season, nobody is going to care that we snuck into the playoffs the year before.  Ask 2013 Philly how much their success in the 2012 playoffs mattered.  A year after upsetting the #1 seed Bulls and taking the Celtics to 7 games, their lack of talent landed them right back in the lotto where they belonged.

Remember when you said this on your birthday “Well, birthdays are merely symbolic of how another year has gone by and how little we've grown. No matter how desperate we are that someday a better self will emerge, with each flicker of the candles on the cake, we know it's not
to be, that for the rest of our sad, wretched pathetic lives, this is who we areto the bitter end. Inevitably, irrevocably; happy birthday? No such thing.”

[Evantime34]

The thing I'm confused about with this debate is if we were to not make the playoffs how would we have gone about that? Would people have rather the C's started Young, Pressey, Gigi, Wallace and Jerebko for the last 5 games to openly tank? Would you have rather they kept Rondo and then not got the picks? Would you rather we not have traded for Thomas?

It's easy to answer the question would you rather have had a higher pick or a lower one and made the playoffs. The question I want answered is if you would have preferred they not make the playoffs what would you have liked the C's to have done differently?

I'm not saying I would have preferred this path, but I think the path to missing the playoffs this year was pretty clear.

At the deadline, Ainge dumps or just flat out waives Prince, Thornton, and Bass.

So take the team we've had for the last few months and subtract Thomas, Bass, Jerebko, and Datome.  I think that's enough to ensure they miss the playoffs by 5 games or so.

In this scenario, the team probably ends up with a pick in the back half of the lottery anyway, though.  Having Thomas is probably better than that, and I still think the Celts can move up if they want.

Ok, I would have been fine with them waiving, Prince, Thornton and Bass but I'm not sure I would trade Thomas to move up from 16 to 10.

I think if people are really in love with a 10th pick level player then they should be fine giving up one of our multitude of future picks to get into that range.

[PhoSita]

Ask 2013 Philly how much their success in the 2012 playoffs mattered.  A year after upsetting the #1 seed Bulls and taking the Celtics to 7 games, their lack of talent landed them right back in the lotto where they belonged.

It might have mattered if they had passed on the Bynum deal, kept Iguodala, and moved forward with the Holiday, Turner, Iggy, Young core.

Not saying they'd have been better off long term, but you're ignoring the fact that they made a gamble that failed miserably and then chose to bottom out quite deliberately in light of that.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I think it has. The series has been one long infomercial for a Celtics franchise that is "up and coming." This has been the litany chanted by national broadcasters since the opening tip of Game One.

Lots of buzz about the team. Trade values are on the rise. Player agents and GMs are watching.

I didn't expect winning the series, but I did expect to win one game. Hoping I am proved right on Sunday.

This is pretty much where I'm at. Stevens is a rising star around the league, virtually every current Celtic has seen his stock increase during the course of the late regular season and postseason, and Danny has tons of draft picks, trade exceptions, and team-friendly contracts with which to pounce when the right situation develops—not to mention a healthy amount of cap space on the horizon. Whichever young Celtics end up staying with the team in the coming years will have grown a lot thanks to this well-fought playoff series against the best team in the East and the best player on the planet.

The pieces are falling into place quite nicely, and ahead of schedule.

A top-three pick would be nice, sure, but unless you're landing a once-in-a-generation talent such as LeBron or Jordan or Duncan, it's not as simple as "get that top draft pick and then you're golden." Consider all the great picks the Blazers have had who've succumbed to injuries. Consider the Thunder, who have obviously drafted well but have seen some of those great picks leave (Harden), not pan out (Green—technically a Boston pick, but acquired on draft night), or otherwise fail to bring home a title (Durant and Westbrook, who've had only 1 Finals appearance). Heck, even Cleveland, with its bevy of recent top picks, would be scuffling still if LeBron hadn't returned—the same LeBron who, in his first go-round with Cleveland, got the Cavs to the Finals only once in 7 seasons, and didn't win a title until he teamed up with 2 other great players (also high draft picks) in another city.