Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?

[jpotter33]

Would these offseason moves be possible?

1) Use our plethora of picks to trade up to around the 10th pick to nab Stanley Johnson, even if it takes one of the Brooklyn picks to get there. (Hell or even Sam Dekker)

2) Sign DJ: It's questionable whether the Clips will give DJ the max this summer. With his limitations offensively and the Clips' already stacked payroll, many question whether or not they will give him the max this summer, which seems fairly obvious that he'll be seeking. On top of that, some have speculated that the Clips will dismantle the roster this offseason if they don't make a deep postseason run. We already know Danny likes DJ, because he was one of the main pieces for that rumored KG-to-LA deal that never went down. If we can steal a game or two from the Cavs, we could offer DJ the max promising him an up-and-coming team, weaker competition (the East), better chance at an All-Star game (the East), a more prominent role offensively, and obviously more money. I don't think this is too crazy of a scenario, especially if the Clips go home early this year.

3) Convince Love to Sign with us: With DJ locked up, we'd solve a big hole for our roster: interior defense, shot-blocking, rebounding, toughness. But we'd still be missing a primary offensive weapon. That's where Love comes in. I'm in the camp that believes Love will bolt if the Cavs don't make the Finals. There's enough evidence there to show that he's at least thinking of opting out for greener pastures and a larger role elsewhere. With DJ as our defensive big, we could possibly persuade Love to sign the max with us to both be "the man" again on offense and have a  very good chance of winning both now and in the future. This would leave us with a roster looking like this (without retaining any of our free agents or Wallace who we'd have to dump):
PG: Smart, IT
SG: Bradley, Young
SF: Johnson, Turner
PF: Love, Sully, KO
C: DJ, Zeller

Question 1: Is this even a possibility with our cap space? I thought I remember seeing somewhere that we'd be able to get two free agent max contracts if we either dumped Wallace or stretched his contract.

Question 2: How realistic is this scenario given the conditions of us being able to move up and nab Johnson, the Clips losing to the Spurs in the 1st round, and the Cavs not making it out of the East? Which move is the least realistic: trading up for Johnson? signing DJ? convincing Love to sign here with DJ and Stevens?

Question 3: How good will this team be next year? How about in three or four years? Is this a balanced enough team (offense vs. defense, skill vs. athleticism, etc.) to eventually become a contender?

[tazzmaniac]

1) I doubt Johnson drops that far but trading up to 10th is certainly possible. 
2) If DJ leaves the Clips, I think he'd end up with the Lakers or the Knicks. 
3) I can't see Love opting out.  If he did, I doubt he'd do so to come here. 

We'd have to do more than get rid of Wallace to free up enough cap space for 2 max players.  Getting rid of Wallace and Turner might be enough. 

The proposed starting lineup would certainly be good defensively but the offense would be poor. There are no shot creators.  You'd really need someone like Rondo to run that offense. 

[crimson_stallion]

Question 1: Is this even a possibility with our cap space? I thought I remember seeing somewhere that we'd be able to get two free agent max contracts if we either dumped Wallace or stretched his contract.

Question 2: How realistic is this scenario given the conditions of us being able to move up and nab Johnson, the Clips losing to the Spurs in the 1st round, and the Cavs not making it out of the East? Which move is the least realistic: trading up for Johnson? signing DJ? convincing Love to sign here with DJ and Stevens?

Question 3: How good will this team be next year? How about in three or four years? Is this a balanced enough team (offense vs. defense, skill vs. athleticism, etc.) to eventually become a contender?

Honestly, I''m not sure that's a good combination.

I feel like Jordan is an offensive liability, while Love is a defensive liability - both would be spending most of their time trying to make up for the other's weaknesses to the point where I feel like they would just end up neutralizing each other's strengths. The only place I see these two dominating together is on the boards, but other than that I just don't think it would work well. 

Aside from that, Love really isn't much of am improvement over Sully...their per-36 minute numbers this year are almost identical:

Sully - 17.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.0 steals, 44% FG, 28% 3PT, 74% FT
Love -  17.5 points, 10.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.7 blocks, 0.6 steals, 44% FG, 37% 3PT, 80% FT

Love is obviously the better three point shooter, but Sully offsets that by being a much better defensive player. 

I rather go after DeAndre Jordan and an offensive oriented SF (a Rudy Gay type guy) because I feel those are our two biggest weaknesses for us right now.

[Smartacus]

Question 1: Is this even a possibility with our cap space? I thought I remember seeing somewhere that we'd be able to get two free agent max contracts if we either dumped Wallace or stretched his contract.

Question 2: How realistic is this scenario given the conditions of us being able to move up and nab Johnson, the Clips losing to the Spurs in the 1st round, and the Cavs not making it out of the East? Which move is the least realistic: trading up for Johnson? signing DJ? convincing Love to sign here with DJ and Stevens?

Question 3: How good will this team be next year? How about in three or four years? Is this a balanced enough team (offense vs. defense, skill vs. athleticism, etc.) to eventually become a contender?

Honestly, I''m not sure that's a good combination.

I feel like Jordan is an offensive liability, while Love is a defensive liability - both would be spending most of their time trying to make up for the other's weaknesses to the point where I feel like they would just end up neutralizing each other's strengths. The only place I see these two dominating together is on the boards, but other than that I just don't think it would work well. 

Aside from that, Love really isn't much of am improvement over Sully...their per-36 minute numbers this year are almost identical:

Sully - 17.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.0 steals, 44% FG, 28% 3PT, 74% FT
Love -  17.5 points, 10.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.7 blocks, 0.6 steals, 44% FG, 37% 3PT, 80% FT

Love is obviously the better three point shooter, but Sully offsets that by being a much better defensive player. 

I rather go after DeAndre Jordan and an offensive oriented SF (a Rudy Gay type guy) because I feel those are our two biggest weaknesses for us right now.

What's Jared Sullinger's "pouts to ref after his lack of mobility left hiim out of postion for a foul that's clear as day to everyone except him" stat? Bet he leads the league.

How about number of promises to lose weight broken per 36 interviews?

3's missed in a row before player hits one and smugly looks around at everyone for doubting that he can hit them?

I like Jared Sullinger as a player, have very little respect for him as a person. Sorry haven't forgotten his domestic abuse indecent either. Kevin Love has a far better character than Jared Sullinger.

[crimson_stallion]

Question 1: Is this even a possibility with our cap space? I thought I remember seeing somewhere that we'd be able to get two free agent max contracts if we either dumped Wallace or stretched his contract.

Question 2: How realistic is this scenario given the conditions of us being able to move up and nab Johnson, the Clips losing to the Spurs in the 1st round, and the Cavs not making it out of the East? Which move is the least realistic: trading up for Johnson? signing DJ? convincing Love to sign here with DJ and Stevens?

Question 3: How good will this team be next year? How about in three or four years? Is this a balanced enough team (offense vs. defense, skill vs. athleticism, etc.) to eventually become a contender?

Honestly, I''m not sure that's a good combination.

I feel like Jordan is an offensive liability, while Love is a defensive liability - both would be spending most of their time trying to make up for the other's weaknesses to the point where I feel like they would just end up neutralizing each other's strengths. The only place I see these two dominating together is on the boards, but other than that I just don't think it would work well. 

Aside from that, Love really isn't much of am improvement over Sully...their per-36 minute numbers this year are almost identical:

Sully - 17.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.0 steals, 44% FG, 28% 3PT, 74% FT
Love -  17.5 points, 10.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.7 blocks, 0.6 steals, 44% FG, 37% 3PT, 80% FT

Love is obviously the better three point shooter, but Sully offsets that by being a much better defensive player. 

I rather go after DeAndre Jordan and an offensive oriented SF (a Rudy Gay type guy) because I feel those are our two biggest weaknesses for us right now.

What's Jared Sullinger's "pouts to ref after his lack of mobility left hiim out of postion for a foul that's clear as day to everyone except him" stat? Bet he leads the league.

How about number of promises to lose weight broken per 36 interviews?

3's missed in a row before player hits one and smugly looks around at everyone for doubting that he can hit them?

I like Jared Sullinger as a player, have very little respect for him as a person. Sorry haven't forgotten his domestic abuse indecent either. Kevin Love has a far better character than Jared Sullinger.

I agree with you about Sullinger, but Love isn't much better.

Remember Ricky Rubio publically commenting on the fact the Love lacks leadership skills?  Remember Love requesting a trade and trying to force his way out of Minnesota despite the fact that he never was good enough to lead them to the playoffs?  Remember Love complaining (not long after getting to Cleveland) about lack of touches, and about how unpleasant it is playing with Lebron?

Also lets not get started on defense - however much you may dislike Sully, Love is FAR worse on that end.

The key thing is that we have Sully for free, and he's 80%-90% of the player Love is...so why pay >$20M to sign Love to a max contract?  It's not good business.  Either keep Sully, or go after another PF.

[Smartacus]

Question 1: Is this even a possibility with our cap space? I thought I remember seeing somewhere that we'd be able to get two free agent max contracts if we either dumped Wallace or stretched his contract.

Question 2: How realistic is this scenario given the conditions of us being able to move up and nab Johnson, the Clips losing to the Spurs in the 1st round, and the Cavs not making it out of the East? Which move is the least realistic: trading up for Johnson? signing DJ? convincing Love to sign here with DJ and Stevens?

Question 3: How good will this team be next year? How about in three or four years? Is this a balanced enough team (offense vs. defense, skill vs. athleticism, etc.) to eventually become a contender?

Honestly, I''m not sure that's a good combination.

I feel like Jordan is an offensive liability, while Love is a defensive liability - both would be spending most of their time trying to make up for the other's weaknesses to the point where I feel like they would just end up neutralizing each other's strengths. The only place I see these two dominating together is on the boards, but other than that I just don't think it would work well. 

Aside from that, Love really isn't much of am improvement over Sully...their per-36 minute numbers this year are almost identical:

Sully - 17.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.0 steals, 44% FG, 28% 3PT, 74% FT
Love -  17.5 points, 10.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.7 blocks, 0.6 steals, 44% FG, 37% 3PT, 80% FT

Love is obviously the better three point shooter, but Sully offsets that by being a much better defensive player. 

I rather go after DeAndre Jordan and an offensive oriented SF (a Rudy Gay type guy) because I feel those are our two biggest weaknesses for us right now.

What's Jared Sullinger's "pouts to ref after his lack of mobility left hiim out of postion for a foul that's clear as day to everyone except him" stat? Bet he leads the league.

How about number of promises to lose weight broken per 36 interviews?

3's missed in a row before player hits one and smugly looks around at everyone for doubting that he can hit them?

I like Jared Sullinger as a player, have very little respect for him as a person. Sorry haven't forgotten his domestic abuse indecent either. Kevin Love has a far better character than Jared Sullinger.

I agree with you about Sullinger, but Love isn't much better.

Remember Ricky Rubio publically commenting on the fact the Love lacks leadership skills?  Remember Love requesting a trade and trying to force his way out of Minnesota despite the fact that he never was good enough to lead them to the playoffs?  Remember Love complaining (not long after getting to Cleveland) about lack of touches, and about how unpleasant it is playing with Lebron?

Also lets not get started on defense - however much you may dislike Sully, Love is FAR worse on that end.

The key thing is that we have Sully for free, and he's 80%-90% of the player Love is...so why pay >$20M to sign Love to a max contract?  It's not good business.  Either keep Sully, or go after another PF.

Remember how Minnesota was a bottom feeding lottery team, and the person calling out Love's leadership is the historically worst shooter in the league history? Man Minnesota really took off after they got rid of that distraction, strait to the worst record in the league even after attaining last year's number 1 pick.

Remember how Love then had to go to a team with two ball dominant elite players and try to fit in there? I personally think if anything he's been diplomatic about how he really feels and that's not a cancer.Regardless we already have a strong locker room, we don't need a leader we need a best player.

Was Kevin Love that bad at defense today? Who lit him up? That charge that he took on Sullinger sure looked like someone who knows what he's doing and where to position himself. His reputation as a bad defensive player is inflated by playing for Minnesota.

Sorry but if you want to talk about bad business your dead in the water if you think it's ok to look over a top player because you have someone 80 to 90% of them. Your stepping over dollars to pick up nickels. Those last percentages are what separate the elite from the solid staters.

Not spending on Love because we have some one who is like him is a false correlation. We shouldn't not spend on Love because we have someone who's just pretty good. Love can be a top 3 player on a championship team. He had a rough game and still walked away with 19/9 today, all the while stretching the floor, Cleaning the glass, passing intelligently and making excellent reads on both sides of the ball.

What did Sullinger do when he came in? Started chucking and carelessly barreled into Love for a momentum killing charge call. You say "Either keep Sully, or go after another PF." well I'll take Kevin Love as my other PF.

[LooseCannon]

The Clippers have the sort of idiot GM who would overpay Jordan.  A better center can be had for less.

[cb8883]

These threads are simply fantasy. Let's just throw out facts such as top free agents will not come to Boston. What does Boston have that LA New York Miami and Texas do not? When you answer that question you'll realize why no big name free agents will ever entertain coming to a mid market team like Boston. Focus on trading up for Okafor or Towns instead. The Celtics tried to short cut building the right way and now it's going to cost them. The price is most of their draft picks. All could have been avoided if they just rebuilt the right way.

I would also find a taker for the tub of goo Sullinger. 2nd rounder I don't care just get him out

[LooseCannon]

These threads are simply fantasy. Let's just throw out facts such as top free agents will not come to Boston. What does Boston have that LA New York Miami and Texas do not? When you answer that question you'll realize why no big name free agents will ever entertain coming to a mid market team like Boston. Focus on trading up for Okafor or Towns instead. The Celtics tried to short cut building the right way and now it's going to cost them. The price is most of their draft picks. All could have been avoided if they just rebuilt the right way.

I would also find a taker for the tub of goo Sullinger. 2nd rounder I don't care just get him out

Unlike the Clippers, Rockets and Nets, the Celtics will have cap space.  The Heat can theoretically have cap space to sign a major free agent, but that would involve Wade, Deng, and Dragic all declining their player option and more than one them not being brought back.  Unlike the Lakers, Boston is a Kobe-free zone.  The Knicks will have cap space, but it's rumored that they want to use a lot of that to sign Greg Monroe.  The Spurs are a small-market team whose potential cap space will be soaked up if they re-sign Leonard, Ginobili, and Duncan.  The Mavericks have the flexibility to be a free agency player.

Boston is a cold-weather large market city, just like Chicago.  It might be a bit less attractive than Chicago, but it is certainly ahead of places like Philadelphia and Detroit.  Greater Boston is the sixth-largest combined statistical area.  The Celtics have the fourth-largest local TV deal.  The Celtics have ownership that is proven to not be afraid to dip into the luxury tax.

The Celtics might not be a draw for free agents who care about nightlife, but I'd argue that a player who is more interested in chasing tail off the court than chasing loose balls on the court is a bad fit for the team and shouldn't be a priority.

The bigger problem for the Celtics being a free agent draw is that it seems like Massachusetts doesn't produce very many basketball stars.  I'm not from New England, but it looks like there haven't been many players who were born in-state, so there haven't been targets who can be swayed by an argument of coming home to play.  You can't convince me that DC is a better free agent destination than Boston, but Wizards fans can at least hope that Kevin Durant might be interested in returning to the area.

[aporel#18]

why would we want to overpay for those two? Maybe Jordan, but Love? No way.

A better chance will appear in the next 12 months. In Danny we trust.

[colincb]

1) Move up for Stanley Johnson: Cs have plenty of assets to trade up to 10 or higher without touching a BKN pick. Johnson's 9th and 11th on DraftXpress's board and Chad Ford's board. respectively. Dekker's not a top 10 pick.  We might get him at 16, but I think there may be better prospects there.

2) Sign DJ: I doubt we can. Teanms can go over the cap this year knowing that the cap explodes next year and will keep them from being a repeater.  Tough year to be chasing Free agents.

3) Convince Love to Sign with us: I doubt this, but who knows?

[jpotter33]

1) Move up for Stanley Johnson: Cs have plenty of assets to trade up to 10 or higher without touching a BKN pick. Johnson's 9th and 11th on DraftXpress's board and Chad Ford's board. respectively. Dekker's not a top 10 pick.  We might get him at 16, but I think there may be better prospects there.

2) Sign DJ: I doubt we can. Teanms can go over the cap this year knowing that the cap explodes next year and will keep them from being a repeater.  Tough year to be chasing Free agents.

3) Convince Love to Sign with us: I doubt this, but who knows?

Yeah, it sucks but I think the exploding cap is really going to hurt our chances in free agency the one year we finally have a decent amount of space.

[colincb]

1) Move up for Stanley Johnson: Cs have plenty of assets to trade up to 10 or higher without touching a BKN pick. Johnson's 9th and 11th on DraftXpress's board and Chad Ford's board. respectively. Dekker's not a top 10 pick.  We might get him at 16, but I think there may be better prospects there.

2) Sign DJ: I doubt we can. Teanms can go over the cap this year knowing that the cap explodes next year and will keep them from being a repeater.  Tough year to be chasing Free agents.

3) Convince Love to Sign with us: I doubt this, but who knows?

Yeah, it sucks but I think the exploding cap is really going to hurt our chances in free agency the one year we finally have a decent amount of space.

Blame the players union President.  Players would have gotten the same pool of money either way, but she apparently pressed for the union to not let the NBA gradually increase the cap.  Helps poorly run teams, hurts us.

[mef730]

Question 1: Is this even a possibility with our cap space? I thought I remember seeing somewhere that we'd be able to get two free agent max contracts if we either dumped Wallace or stretched his contract.

Question 2: How realistic is this scenario given the conditions of us being able to move up and nab Johnson, the Clips losing to the Spurs in the 1st round, and the Cavs not making it out of the East? Which move is the least realistic: trading up for Johnson? signing DJ? convincing Love to sign here with DJ and Stevens?

Question 3: How good will this team be next year? How about in three or four years? Is this a balanced enough team (offense vs. defense, skill vs. athleticism, etc.) to eventually become a contender?

Honestly, I''m not sure that's a good combination.

I feel like Jordan is an offensive liability, while Love is a defensive liability - both would be spending most of their time trying to make up for the other's weaknesses to the point where I feel like they would just end up neutralizing each other's strengths. The only place I see these two dominating together is on the boards, but other than that I just don't think it would work well. 

Aside from that, Love really isn't much of am improvement over Sully...their per-36 minute numbers this year are almost identical:

Sully - 17.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.0 steals, 44% FG, 28% 3PT, 74% FT
Love -  17.5 points, 10.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.7 blocks, 0.6 steals, 44% FG, 37% 3PT, 80% FT

Love is obviously the better three point shooter, but Sully offsets that by being a much better defensive player. 

I rather go after DeAndre Jordan and an offensive oriented SF (a Rudy Gay type guy) because I feel those are our two biggest weaknesses for us right now.

Except Love was on a team with Kyrie and LeBron, other scoring machines.  Sully was a go-to guy.

As for getting both DJ and Love, seems to me that both of those guys are good enough that they could take a one-year contract and then sign with pretty much anyone for the max when the cap explodes in 2016.  My capology is weak, so I don't know how much we can go over by in 2015.

Side note: If we do sign Kevn Love, I insist that we sign Rudy Gay as well and play them at the same time.

Mike

[droopdog7]

Rule of the day.  Don't max out guys that are max players.  Worst thing the franchise could do is overpay for players.