Tommy Heinsohn yells "Hey Girlie" at woman ref

[Jonny CC]

You're such an amazing person of integrity revtodd, highly commendable.you must be so proud of yourself being the internet police on your high horse of what's right and what Tommy can say.
Who cares. Girlie is in no way derogatory, only to sensitive little internet police. Get over it bud

The rev is entitled to an opinion.  There is no need to be wiseass about it.  You mention the "high horse" but you seem to be the one riding it.

Tommy is obviously from a different generation and I don't think he said "girlie" as a term of endearment.  Personally, I don't think it's a big deal but I can understand why some people would think it was uncalled for.  And someone must have thought it was out of line because he apologized for it.  Time to move on.

[Ogaju]

of course someone thought it was out of line. These days of politically accepted speech the fact that speech draws an apology is no indication that the speech was incorrect just an indication of the leverage the special interest groups have on commerce.

For years women fought to get into mainstream commerce, well part of the deal is that you DEAL with the rules of the game. Don't join the club and try to change the rules, or people could say that is why you were kept out to begin with.

What exactly was Tommy supposed to call her? Her man, or Hey woman. Neither would have satisfied the speech police. Tommy did not yell fire in a crowded theatre -- his speech deserves protection, but when you are ruled by the almighty dollar you fall for silly blackmail and extortion, just ask Donald Sterling.

[GratefulCs]

Hey Tommy, its 2015 and there are women refs and women who are Celtics fans watching the game.  You are the one making the bad call tonight!     I have always been a Tommy fan, but he has spoiled the whole Tommy point thing.

So are you saying the female ref should've been treated differently? Tommy is literally ALWAYS on the refs, even the ones he's pretty good friends with. Pretty ridiculous to bring this up given the context.

I know, right?  Equality in this situation means being treated like every other ref.

When Tommy criticizes every other ref, does he refer to their gender?  If so, then whatever.  But I think we all know he doesn't, and therein lies the problem.  His yelling at the ref refers to her gender.  it would be a similar problem if yelling at the ref referred to the ref's race.  Neither race nor gender are relevant to the criticism, so they shouldn't be a part of it.

I love Tommy, but hr messed up, plain and simple.

Since 99% of the other refs are male, that wouldn't make much sense.

Exactly why saying "Hey girlie", which is clearly meant to be a demeaning reference to her gender, is in fact sexist.  I'm disappointed, but not surprised, at the number of people who think there was nothing wrong.  I dare some of you to say "Hey, girlie" to one of your female coworkers the next time you want her attention.  Report back here and let us know how that interaction goes.  Heck, do it multiple times, since if there's nothing wrong, no one will mind.  I'll bet they all find it endearing.

I'm dissapointed that you think being called a girl is demeaning..


..



Hehe

[Roy H.]

"Girlie" comes across as condescending.  It's not anywhere near a slur, but it's a way of putting a woman into her place.  Try calling a grown man "boy", and it's probably along the same lines, except with a tinge of sexism.

Tommy is from a different age.  That stuff used to be acceptable, and change hasn't completely come for everybody.  It doesn't make Tommy a bad person, it doesn't mean he doesn't respect women or that he's a chauvinist, etc.  However, when reaching for an insult, he picked one that he should have stayed away from.

[Jonny CC]

"Girlie" comes across as condescending.  It's not anywhere near a slur, but it's a way of putting a woman into her place.  Try calling a grown man "boy", and it's probably along the same lines, except with a tinge of sexism.

Tommy is from a different age.  That stuff used to be acceptable, and change hasn't completely come for everybody.  It doesn't make Tommy a bad person, it doesn't mean he doesn't respect women or that he's a chauvinist, etc.  However, when reaching for an insult, he picked one that he should have stayed away from.

ding, ding, ding,....we have a winner

Well said

[cometboy]

Yeah, I agree with Roy and a few others. I don't think Tommy is a bad person, but he intended to strike a nerve and probably did.

It never ceases to amaze me, however, how much you learn about other posters on these boards.

cb

[hwangjini_1]

of course someone thought it was out of line. These days of politically accepted speech the fact that speech draws an apology is no indication that the speech was incorrect just an indication of the leverage the special interest groups have on commerce.

For years women fought to get into mainstream commerce, well part of the deal is that you DEAL with the rules of the game. Don't join the club and try to change the rules, or people could say that is why you were kept out to begin with.

What exactly was Tommy supposed to call her? Her man, or Hey woman. Neither would have satisfied the speech police. Tommy did not yell fire in a crowded theatre -- his speech deserves protection, but when you are ruled by the almighty dollar you fall for silly blackmail and extortion, just ask Donald Sterling.

and who, may i ask, wrote these "rules" to which you refer? non-males and non-females? gender neutral people? since, as you state, women were largely excluded from the mainstream commerce, they logically were excluded from writing the rules that were put in place by a system run overwhelmingly by males, yes?

if it was "ok" for men to write rules for a system they guide, why is it not fine for women to do the same when they achieve a similar position?

as a parallel, should this same argument be mounted against the african american civil rights movement of the 1960s? did people say that was why they were kept out of the rule-writing system? and if they did, should we accept that argument?

[revtodd64]

"Girlie" comes across as condescending.  It's not anywhere near a slur, but it's a way of putting a woman into her place.  Try calling a grown man "boy", and it's probably along the same lines, except with a tinge of sexism.

Tommy is from a different age.  That stuff used to be acceptable, and change hasn't completely come for everybody.  It doesn't make Tommy a bad person, it doesn't mean he doesn't respect women or that he's a chauvinist, etc.  However, when reaching for an insult, he picked one that he should have stayed away from.

I agree Roy.  I've always been a Tommy fan, and I heard he apologized.  Did anyone actually hear what he said after the game?  I can't find any links to it on the internet.  It would be a great help in this discussion to know how Tommy handled things.

[sed522002]

I agree 100% with what Roy said and I'll add, sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it. For example, if a grown Black man was called a "boy" by a White man it could be seen as offensive. Is the word "boy" offensive, of course not, but the connotations and meaning behind it when used a certain way is.

I don't think Tommy is a bad person, just got caught up in his ref hate and used the wrong term and apologized. I just find it funny that people get offended by what someone finds offensive  oh the irony..lol.

[oldtype]

He said something he shouldn't have and apologized. That should be the end of the matter really.

[Ogaju]

why do we have women referees in a man's game?

It is clear they cannot keep up with the game.

What next? Affirmative action for women players? One woman per team? You know its coming.

[Roy H.]

why do we have women referees in a man's game?

It is clear they cannot keep up with the game.

The standard shouldn't be gender.  Rather, it should be competence.

You seem to be equating the two, which comes across as a bit ignorant to me.

[jpotter33]

Hey Tommy, its 2015 and there are women refs and women who are Celtics fans watching the game.  You are the one making the bad call tonight!     I have always been a Tommy fan, but he has spoiled the whole Tommy point thing.

So are you saying the female ref should've been treated differently? Tommy is literally ALWAYS on the refs, even the ones he's pretty good friends with. Pretty ridiculous to bring this up given the context.

I know, right?  Equality in this situation means being treated like every other ref.

When Tommy criticizes every other ref, does he refer to their gender?  If so, then whatever.  But I think we all know he doesn't, and therein lies the problem.  His yelling at the ref refers to her gender.  it would be a similar problem if yelling at the ref referred to the ref's race.  Neither race nor gender are relevant to the criticism, so they shouldn't be a part of it.

I love Tommy, but hr messed up, plain and simple.

Since 99% of the other refs are male, that wouldn't make much sense.

Exactly why saying "Hey girlie", which is clearly meant to be a demeaning reference to her gender, is in fact sexist.  I'm disappointed, but not surprised, at the number of people who think there was nothing wrong.  I dare some of you to say "Hey, girlie" to one of your female coworkers the next time you want her attention.  Report back here and let us know how that interaction goes.  Heck, do it multiple times, since if there's nothing wrong, no one will mind.  I'll bet they all find it endearing.

If I didn't know the ref's name, which we can all assume he did not, I probably would've addressed her in a similar way. "Hey, feminine identifier" is an avenue of addressing the only type of reference that separates her from the other refs. It's not "clearly meant to be a demeaning reference to her gender," because how was he supposed to address her? "Hey, You!" - doesn't get the job done, "Hey, Ref!" - doesn't get the job done, "Hey, feminine identifier!" - gets the job done because we all know who he's addressing. She and the rest of the refs could've avoided the whole situation by not being terrible all night.

For example, if there was one girl in a group of three guys that you were trying to get their attention, what would you yell to them - Hey, ____ ? It almost necessarily has to be feminine language to get her attention.

Good Lord, people need to lighten up on all of this PC crap. Stuff like this is only "sexism" if you're looking for "sexism."

[sed522002]

why do we have women referees in a man's game?

It is clear they cannot keep up with the game.

What next? Affirmative action for women players? One woman per team? You know its coming.

I thought this was a comment meant as a joke, then I realized this comment IS a joke..seriously?

[Donoghus]

None of the three seemed much competent last night.  And two of them were male.