TD Garden: Should it be replaced or upgraded? (merged)

[bdm860]

So you want the following?

Amedities include but not limited too

Private Suite holder entrance and lobby
Private suite level washrooms
Multiple flat-panel televisions in every where
Wet bar and refrigerator
Reserved parking
Private club-guest only entry into the arena
Climate-controlled lounges with comfortable seating
Flat panel HD TVs
Upscale cuisine offerings to all and easily accessible to fans
Wider, cushioned seats with cup holders
Opportunity to purchase tickets to concerts and other stadium events (subject to availability)
Club seat/ box seats closer to the action

food delivered to your seat

I’m guess I’m surprised nobody has said this yet, but the TD Garden already offers most of these things (at least the not so subjective ones):

Private Suite holder entrance and lobby - check
Private suite level washrooms  - check
Wet bar and refrigerator - check
Climate-controlled lounges with comfortable seating - check
Flat panel HD TVs  - check
Wider, cushioned seats with cup holders - check
Opportunity to purchase tickets to concerts and other stadium events (subject to availability) -check
food delivered to your seat - check

But apparently this high rolling season ticket holder has just never sat in the club seats or executive suites like I have. (Just a friendly jab for this comment you made towards me earlier)

This is an example of a fan that doen't have season tickets and doen't travel  to other arenas across the country.

No season tickets but I have been to a 3rd of the NBA arenas (knocking out all of them is on my bucket list), sat in the front row, sat in luxury boxes, sat in the nosebleeds, and everywhere in between.  The Celtics already offer most of the amenities you're looking for.

Personally, I don't care about amenities and I don't think you can really compete on amenities anymore when people can watch games from their barcalounger on their 60" 4k tv with surround sound from the comfort of their own home.  I go to games because I enjoy the energy of being there live, and nothing adds to that except for the team being good and the crowd engaged.

That being said, there can always be more comfortable seats and more legroom in the cheap seats, but then the arena would be lucky to hold 3k people if every seat was a barcalounger and cheap seats wouldn't be so cheap anymore.  When I go to games, I often buy cheaper upper bowl seats instead of club seats because I don't care about those extra amenities (cushioned seats, food delivered to your seats, private entrances/lounges/lobbies) that the TD Garden already offers, and don't want to go broke going to a game when I can already watch it for the cost of cable/league pass at home.

[Donoghus]

That being said, there can always be more comfortable seats and more legroom in the cheap seats, but then the arena would be lucky to hold 3k people if every seat was a barcalounger and cheap seats wouldn't be so cheap anymore.  When I go to games, I often buy cheaper upper bowl seats instead of club seats because I don't care about those extra amenities (cushioned seats, food delivered to your seats, private entrances/lounges/lobbies) that the TD Garden already offers, and don't want to go broke going to a game when I can already watch it for the cost of cable/league pass at home.

Which I think is the feelings of the vast majority of fans.  You're not going to a sporting event for the amenities.  (Obviously, a luxury box invite is special).  You're actually going to watch a sporting event in person.   It's the atmosphere & the ability to see guys you see on tv all the time, in person.

If you really are focused on amenities, the best place to watch it is probably your living room & its a helluva lot cheaper.

The average sports fan (especially Boston sports fan) just doesn't place amenities high up when it comes to attending a sporting event.  I'm willing to bet on that.

[D.o.s.]

This is so stupid.

A lot of folks for some reason entertaining this weird argument from the intern at some marketing or building company trying to gather some (absurd) research to make a pitch to his boss who can make a pitch to The Celtics about some scenario that isn't even a reality.

Entertaining weird arguments about some scenario that isn't even a reality is 99.99% of all sports discussion.

[Roy H.]

This is so stupid.

A lot of folks for some reason entertaining this weird argument from the intern at some marketing or building company trying to gather some (absurd) research to make a pitch to his boss who can make a pitch to The Celtics about some scenario that isn't even a reality.

Entertaining weird arguments about some scenario that isn't even a reality is 99.99% of all sports discussion.

Yeah.  It's at least something different than the "Rondo sucks! Rondo rulez!" debates, or the 437th DeMarcus Cousins trade idea.

If some Sports God was going to gift Celtics fans a new arena that had state of the art amenities and reasonably stable ticket prices, I'd be all over that.  However, that's a fairy tale, in my opinion.  Even fairy tales are nice to think about from time to time, though.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

This is so stupid.

A lot of folks for some reason entertaining this weird argument from the intern at some marketing or building company trying to gather some (absurd) research to make a pitch to his boss who can make a pitch to The Celtics about some scenario that isn't even a reality.

Entertaining weird arguments about some scenario that isn't even a reality is 99.99% of all sports discussion.

Of course. I was just being prickly and goofing, but, really, this has nothing to do with sports. This is a real estate conversation at this point. It has all the hallmarks of market research and cheesy buzzwords. "NBA ROYALTY", #Hashtags.

Guess I just find this bizarrely fascinating. Like, why would anyone care so much about The Celtics owning their arena, or copy and pasting lists of amenities from some other website?

Just feels like the worst covert market research that someone thinks will make a difference but is going to no end at all. Seems funny to me. 

[nickagneta]

One of the reasons that the Barclay's Center isn't profitable is because they have direct competition with MSG for all the music events that happen in the city. MSG is like  the third busiest concert venue in the world. The money they generate off of events that aren't the Rangers or Knicks is the most any team who owns their own building makes in the NBA. Barclay's just can't compete with that and they can beat the allure of MSG and aren't going to bring in that extra revnue because of the competition.

With a Celtics only owned arena in Boston, the same thing would happen that's happening to Barclay's, it would become unprofitable and before you know it the Celtics will be up for sale.

Fair point. Do you think the Celtics should have part ownership in the Garden? Do you think the Garden needs major upgrades? If so what needs to be upgraded?

Why would the Bruins want to sell off part ownership in the Garden? If they aren't going to sell part of the Garden, and they aren't because they make money on the Garden and need that revenue since hockey isn't as lucrative as basketball, then what is there for the Celtics to buy into? Nothing. So its irrelevant if anyone thinks the Celtics should have part ownership in the building.

As for the amenities. Been to quite a few arenas and stadiums around the country. I don't see that the Garden needs many more upgrades. Maybe some more tvs in the bathrooms and around the concourse. Don't see the need for more than that. I go to enjoy Celtics basketball not for the amenities.

[D.o.s.]

This is so stupid.

A lot of folks for some reason entertaining this weird argument from the intern at some marketing or building company trying to gather some (absurd) research to make a pitch to his boss who can make a pitch to The Celtics about some scenario that isn't even a reality.

Entertaining weird arguments about some scenario that isn't even a reality is 99.99% of all sports discussion.

Of course. I was just being prickly and goofing, but, really, this has nothing to do with sports. This is a real estate conversation at this point. It has all the hallmarks of market research and cheesy buzzwords. "NBA ROYALTY", #Hashtags.

Guess I just find this bizarrely fascinating. Like, why would anyone care so much about The Celtics owning their arena, or copy and pasting lists of amenities from some other website?

Just feels like the worst covert market research that someone thinks will make a difference but is going to no end at all. Seems funny to me.

Oh, totally agreed. That's why we need to #Encourage it. 

[Celtics#18]

This would be nice if TD Garden upgraded to include smaller suit options. What do you guys think?

http://m.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2015/03/09/sacramento-kings-begin-sales-for-smaller-suite.html?r=full

[Fafnir]

One of the reasons that the Barclay's Center isn't profitable is because they have direct competition with MSG for all the music events that happen in the city. MSG is like  the third busiest concert venue in the world. The money they generate off of events that aren't the Rangers or Knicks is the most any team who owns their own building makes in the NBA. Barclay's just can't compete with that and they can beat the allure of MSG and aren't going to bring in that extra revnue because of the competition.

With a Celtics only owned arena in Boston, the same thing would happen that's happening to Barclay's, it would become unprofitable and before you know it the Celtics will be up for sale.

Fair point. Do you think the Celtics should have part ownership in the Garden? Do you think the Garden needs major upgrades? If so what needs to be upgraded?

Why would the Bruins want to sell off part ownership in the Garden? If they aren't going to sell part of the Garden, and they aren't because they make money on the Garden and need that revenue since hockey isn't as lucrative as basketball, then what is there for the Celtics to buy into? Nothing. So its irrelevant if anyone thinks the Celtics should have part ownership in the building.

As for the amenities. Been to quite a few arenas and stadiums around the country. I don't see that the Garden needs many more upgrades. Maybe some more tvs in the bathrooms and around the concourse. Don't see the need for more than that. I go to enjoy Celtics basketball not for the amenities.

Only reason for the Bruins to sell a piece of the building would be to secure a new building or renovation capital from the Celtics and potentially the city as well so they didn't have to invest as much in upgrades.

If that sort of pressure isn't present they'll never sell off a piece of the building, they make too much of the C's as anchor tennants currently.

[Roy H.]

This would be nice if TD Garden upgraded to include smaller suit options. What do you guys think?

http://m.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2015/03/09/sacramento-kings-begin-sales-for-smaller-suite.html?r=full

They have "lofts" already, although those are for smaller groups.

Smaller suites would be fine, but if the team is already selling out its larger suites (which accommodate 18 to 50 people, I believe), then there may not be a need.

[JohnBoy65]

I'm a Celtics fan from the Upstate New York. I've ben to maybe 7-10 games in Boston. The first game I EVER went to was Game 6 of the 2010 ECF. My mom texted me in school and said found some cheap seats want to go? We sat up in section 309. I was a bigger fan than she was, but from that point on we both watch every single Celtics game, and try to get a game once a year. Why? The experience at the TD Garden and the City of Boston was UNBELIEVABLE. You couldn't hear the person next to you talk it was so loud. The energy was amazing.

Boston is such a blue- collar city it doesn't need luxuries or amenities. It has fans that come to the games, are energetic, cheer as hard as they can for their team, and create a great atmosphere to play in. I wouldn't change one thing about the TD Garden.

[Celtics#18]

I'm a Celtics fan from the Upstate New York. I've ben to maybe 7-10 games in Boston. The first game I EVER went to was Game 6 of the 2010 ECF. My mom texted me in school and said found some cheap seats want to go? We sat up in section 309. I was a bigger fan than she was, but from that point on we both watch every single Celtics game, and try to get a game once a year. Why? The experience at the TD Garden and the City of Boston was UNBELIEVABLE. You couldn't hear the person next to you talk it was so loud. The energy was amazing.

Boston is such a blue- collar city it doesn't need luxuries or amenities. It has fans that come to the games, are energetic, cheer as hard as they can for their team, and create a great atmosphere to play in. I wouldn't change one thing about the TD Garden.

I think your not seeing the bigger picture. I agree that the energy from fans really makes Celtics games enjoyable. I'm really talking about making the celtics games a more fuller experience to fans. Give the fans the ability to choose from a range of comfortable options for watching the games. I'm glad your content with your seat but things can always we better. Boston is more  TD Can we agree the TD Garden should have more handicap accessible areas, wider seats for overweight people, And ect. 
This whole idea that Boston doesn't have a large enough market to sell luxurious options for fans is misguided. Boston isn't a blue collar city anymore. People who aren't from Boston still think Boston is an industrial city.
1) Boston is considered the 6th most economically powerful city in the world  http://www.citylab.com/work/2011/09/25-most-economically-powerful-cities-world/109/#slide6
2) Boston has the most Venture Capitalist per Capita
http://ssti.org/blog/useful-stats-us-venture-capital-capita-and-share-national-total-state-2008-13
3) Boston has some of the worlds best hospitals
4) Boston is a leader in stem cell research 
5) Boston is home to some of the worlds biggest pharmaceutical companies
6) The Boston area is home to the 5 largest High Tech market in the nation
http://www.onlyin.us/2014/09/city/report-boston-area-top-5-high-tech-market-america/

http://www.businessinsider.com/cities-where-the-most-rich-people-live-2013-2?op=1

[Roy H.]

Can we agree the TD Garden should have more handicap accessible areas, wider seats for overweight people,

Ideally, sure.  However, there's a finite amount of space, and the only real way to add larger seats is to rip existing seats out.  You'd have to reduce capacity of the arena to add seats, and I'm not sure if that's worth it.  There would be fewer fans (affecting the atmosphere of the games), and ticket prices would go up.

[Celtics#18]

Can we agree the TD Garden should have more handicap accessible areas, wider seats for overweight people,

Ideally, sure.  However, there's a finite amount of space, and the only real way to add larger seats is to rip existing seats out.  You'd have to reduce capacity of the arena to add seats, and I'm not sure if that's worth it.  There would be fewer fans (affecting the atmosphere of the games), and ticket prices would go up.

That's why I originally argued for a new arena because it seems like the TD garden has a threshold for how many upgrades it can have.

[Jonny CC]

The one and only Boston GARDEN was an absolute rat-hole but it was the greatest arena in the world for watching a Celtics or Bruins game....even if you were sitting in a cramped seat behind a steel girder and with no air conditioning. Personally, I am not a fan of the TD North Fleetcenter.  Like Gillette, there was such a focus on suites for the rich that they totally screwed the blue collar fan. Balcony seats are expensive and a step below being on the moon.