Why do Zeller and Sully seldom play together.

[hwangjini_1]

I understand what you're saying, it doesn't sound like Sully can be penciled in as the starting Power Forward of the future yet.

Oh yeah I agree. Honestly if he can't get in shape and get his mind right, he's not talented enough to contribute to a legit contender.

And he needs to improve both on the perimeter and the interior.

well, i am not stating that sully is an all star, most certainly. but he is averaging 14.4 points and 8.1 rebounds a game. among pf in the nba those numbers are good,respectively, for 14th (.1 points behind duncan) and tied for 9th (with favors). and for his age group in the nba, he ranks very high in TRB%. and he is 6th among pf in assists per game.

this isnt all star level production, but its not chopped liver either. right now, sully is an above average pf who is 22 years old, cost controlled, and has improved most of his stats each of his 3 years.

if, if, if he gets in better shape and develops his 3 point shot, he will be better than above average.

will he be the best or second best player on a contender? very, very doubtful. but can he be a valuable starter who helps and supports the star players on a contender? absolutely.

[littleteapot]

well, i am not stating that sully is an all star, most certainly. but he is averaging 14.4 points and 8.1 rebounds a game. among pf in the nba those numbers are good,respectively, for 14th (.1 points behind duncan) and tied for 9th (with favors). and for his age group in the nba, he ranks very high in TRB%. and he is 6th among pf in assists per game.

this isnt all star level production, but its not chopped liver either. right now, sully is an above average pf who is 22 years old, cost controlled, and has improved most of his stats each of his 3 years.

I want to continue to invest in him and see how good he can get, but he's getting those numbers because the C's have no one else to use offensively.

[Rosco917]

This conversation has much more to do with building a team that can function as a winning unit. And possibly getting deep in the playoff picture, or competing for a championship.

I asked the question why Zeller and Sully seem to seldom play any long minutes together on the court. Most agreed, "they would get in each others way."

To me this means, Sully's game is more of a 5 than a 4. Stevens seems to shy away from Sully getting minutes as a power forward with Zeller (a traditional 5). So I'm guessing Sully has traits that do not allow him to blend well playing along side a traditional 5. The biggest need on this team is a defensive presence at the 5. Everyone talks about Cousins, Jordan, Towns, all of these players are traditional centers.

My question is which PF, Sully or KO will get the important minutes next to this new center? Both having similar games and similar faults. Honestly, I'm not sure either can defend the power forwards of the NBA.

   

[Celtics4ever]

he is averaging 14.4 points and 8.1 rebounds a game. among pf in the nba those numbers are good,respectively, for 14th

Doesn't his poor D concern you?   Even when he has a good game his PER is low because he is a sieve on D.   I seriously, do not think he is the long term answer.

[hwangjini_1]

he is averaging 14.4 points and 8.1 rebounds a game. among pf in the nba those numbers are good,respectively, for 14th

Doesn't his poor D concern you?   Even when he has a good game his PER is low because he is a sieve on D.   I seriously, do not think he is the long term answer.

on his defense i understand the concerns, but i am not sure how much falls upon him and how much would change with a good defensive center or a different defensive scheme.

most of what i know about gauging defense in the nba is "eye ball" based and the stats used are so debated and contested that i am not sure which ones are valid and which one are not valid.

even debates on what stats to include flair up. is TRB% important on defense? (sullys looks good there) after all, if you corral a rebound the other team cant score. blocks? sure, but cant you be a good defender without them? PER? some posters love it. other show how it favors forwards over guards and there fore is either inflated or deflated. i dont know, so i dont even know which stats to invoke.

honestly, the debates i have seen on sully's defense on cb seem mostly to rest upon emotional preferences and pre-existing assumptions that are then armed with data that fits.

i cant honestly judge sully's defense right now as being clearly bad or good or mediocre, let alone project into the future. my guess would not even have a clear basis for measurement.

offense is easier to quantify in the nba than defense, which is why i stayed with that.

[Rosco917]

he is averaging 14.4 points and 8.1 rebounds a game. among pf in the nba those numbers are good,respectively, for 14th

Doesn't his poor D concern you?   Even when he has a good game his PER is low because he is a sieve on D.   I seriously, do not think he is the long term answer.

on his defense i understand the concerns, but i am not sure how much falls upon him and how much would change with a good defensive center or a different defensive scheme.

most of what i know about gauging defense in the nba is "eye ball" based and the stats used are so debated and contested that i am not sure which ones are valid and which one are not valid.

even debates on what stats to include flair up. is TRB% important on defense? (sullys looks good there) after all, if you corral a rebound the other team cant score. blocks? sure, but cant you be a good defender without them? PER? some posters love it. other show how it favors forwards over guards and there fore is either inflated or deflated. i dont know, so i dont even know which stats to invoke.

honestly, the debates i have seen on sully's defense on cb seem mostly to rest upon emotional preferences and pre-existing assumptions that are then armed with data that fits.

i cant honestly judge sully's defense right now as being clearly bad or good or mediocre, let alone project into the future. my guess would not even have a clear basis for measurement.

offense is easier to quantify in the nba than defense, which is why i stayed with that.

You've given a nice analogy, I guess it depends on who's "eye balls" are doing the evaluating and how truly accurate defensive stats are. (A baseball infielder can have a great fielding percentage, but terrible range)  When I hear Tommy say, Sully didn't move his feet on that play very well, or I see the player his guarding just blow pass him like he's standing in mud as he helplessly waves his arms. In the NBA many times a player is involved in defensive switches, where the PF has to defend the SF. In these cases I just wonder what his defensive potential really is.

I don't have to tell anyone that defense is important, a couple of extra stops at the right time can be the difference between changing momentum in an important game or series. The ability to "pick up" team defense is how NBA championships are won. (See: SanAntonio)
How many times do you look at a very talented NBA roster and wonder why that team can't get out of the second round. Many times it's poor effort on defense, or simply, inability to defend very well.