Celtics (14-26) at Nuggets (18-24) Game #41 1/23/15

[greece66]

These two wins moved us in front of Indy, Orlando, and Utah and is severely detrimental to our chances at landing a high draft pick.  It really makes no sense to win games with our roster as constructed.

Exactly. I don't think Prince or Thornton or probably even Bass are part of the future, yet these guys are getting important minutes. So frustrating. What's the point here?

I don't get it either.  These are NBA veterans.  Regardless of recent performance, every GM, incompetent or not, knows what they're getting if they choose to acquire these players.

More than anything, it shows that tanking comes from management and not as much from coaching.  You generally win games with veterans and lose games with youth.  Stevens is trying to win games, despite what some people believe.

Which is why it continues to puzzle me that we have to 'showcase' these guys. Umm, hello, they are who they are as players by this point in their respective careers, so it's not like other gms should have to see that they can contribute consistently.  It just...there are no words.  Ugh.

I am totally with you on this. Having said this, we can never have it 100% our way.
Bass is a remnant of the contending era, we still have not figured out how to get rid of him in profitable manner. It is not for lack of effort on our part...
Thornton was acquired as a cheap short term fix at the beginning of the season. And he is not making much harm (financially or in terms of playing time) anyway.
Prince came along as the result of Danny's endless trades to get us rid of other veterans. He is a team player and is helping the team in a quiet way.
Adding a couple of veterans in a young team is not necessarily a terrible thing as the young players can pick up a couple of tricks from them + vets can help a lot in last min situations + Bass, Thornton, Prince (and Wallace) are not here for ever, look at their contracts.
As I said earlier, Philly apart, all the other tanking teams are older than we are, so no biggie. 

[inverselock]

These two wins moved us in front of Indy, Orlando, and Utah and is severely detrimental to our chances at landing a high draft pick.  It really makes no sense to win games with our roster as constructed.

Exactly. I don't think Prince or Thornton or probably even Bass are part of the future, yet these guys are getting important minutes. So frustrating. What's the point here?

I don't get it either.  These are NBA veterans.  Regardless of recent performance, every GM, incompetent or not, knows what they're getting if they choose to acquire these players.

More than anything, it shows that tanking comes from management and not as much from coaching.  You generally win games with veterans and lose games with youth.  Stevens is trying to win games, despite what some people believe.

Which is why it continues to puzzle me that we have to 'showcase' these guys.  Umm, hello, they are who they are as players by this point in their respective careers, so it's not like other gms should have to see that they can contribute consistently.  It just...there are no words.  Ugh.

If it makes no sense, then why are a lot of you still saying we are showcasing them? No one within the organization has said that's what we are doing but a lot of you keep saying it. Maybe the coach is just playing the players that are good enough to play... take the winning out of it, all of our players deserve and have earned playing time.

Like another poster said, we lose people say we have no talent, when we win you say it's too much! Make up your minds!

Its not about losing.  Its about developing our youth. 

Danny said:

“I think you have to build through the draft, but like last time we built through the draft and we developed players and we were able to trade to get some veteran guys in that were ready to win that were more compatible with Paul (Pierce) at the time, but we did it through the draft. That’s how I look at it and right now we’ll do the same thing; we’ll draft players, we’ll develop players and we’ll look for opportunities to take steps forward.”

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

These two wins moved us in front of Indy, Orlando, and Utah and is severely detrimental to our chances at landing a high draft pick.  It really makes no sense to win games with our roster as constructed.

Exactly. I don't think Prince or Thornton or probably even Bass are part of the future, yet these guys are getting important minutes. So frustrating. What's the point here?

I don't get it either.  These are NBA veterans.  Regardless of recent performance, every GM, incompetent or not, knows what they're getting if they choose to acquire these players.

More than anything, it shows that tanking comes from management and not as much from coaching.  You generally win games with veterans and lose games with youth.  Stevens is trying to win games, despite what some people believe.

Which is why it continues to puzzle me that we have to 'showcase' these guys.  Umm, hello, they are who they are as players by this point in their respective careers, so it's not like other gms should have to see that they can contribute consistently.  It just...there are no words.  Ugh.

If it makes no sense, then why are a lot of you still saying we are showcasing them? No one within the organization has said that's what we are doing but a lot of you keep saying it. Maybe the coach is just playing the players that are good enough to play... take the winning out of it, all of our players deserve and have earned playing time.

Like another poster said, we lose people say we have no talent, when we win you say it's too much! Make up your minds!

Its not about losing.  Its about developing our youth. 

Danny said:

“I think you have to build through the draft, but like last time we built through the draft and we developed players and we were able to trade to get some veteran guys in that were ready to win that were more compatible with Paul (Pierce) at the time, but we did it through the draft. That’s how I look at it and right now we’ll do the same thing; we’ll draft players, we’ll develop players and we’ll look for opportunities to take steps forward.”

He is still doing that. Development is aided by the vets showing them how to work and mentoring. Leave the 2 wins (2 wins!) out of it, the vets are needed. No one has a team full of kids, not one team!

[MBunge]

These two wins moved us in front of Indy, Orlando, and Utah and is severely detrimental to our chances at landing a high draft pick.  It really makes no sense to win games with our roster as constructed.

So, your suggestion is that Ainge has a chat with Brad and explains him to stop winning games?
This is NOT how it works. Everything is wrong with an expensive team of veterans that gets mediocre results (this is what we were before the trade season). There is nothing wrong with a very cheap and very young team winning games. It is good for their psychology, good for the coach, makes us a better team long term.

This DEAD on post......Danny wants the  Coach and the young team to develop winning habits,  tasting victory......so they will continue to work .

If they loose all the time ...the team moral falls and it messes with the coach and team confidence .

The team has to believe they ArE on the right path ......for their and the coaches sake.

Winning is achieved with two primary things: (1) continuity and chemistry; and (2) talent.  The veterans on this team will not be here for long haul, so scratch out #1.  Might as well scratch out #2 as well because they're aging, mediocre talent.

The "right way" of wining can be established despite a history of continued losing.  It just takes the right pieces.

We ARE winning the right way. Only Philly's team is younger than ours. And even they have a couple of 'old' guys in the roster. We just traded BOTH RR and JG (let alone Wright and Nelson).
When we lose: 'this team is devoid of talent'
When we win: 'let's trade everyone, so we can tank'
Does this make sense to you?

But are we winning the right way? Young didn't even play, and Smart only played 14 minutes. What good does a win do us if our future players hardly even play?

Like I said, I'm totally fine with us winning if it's on the backs of Smart, Young, Sully, Bradley, Crowder etc. But I'm not okay with the pieces of trade bait in Bass, Turner, Thornton, and Prince winning us games, which is what happened tonight.

Smart had five fouls.  How much more could he have played?  Crowder is not a starter in this league.  Young is, well, young.  And Sully and Bradley played the second and third most minutes of the night.

Mike

[inverselock]

If it makes no sense, then why are a lot of you still saying we are showcasing them? No one within the organization has said that's what we are doing but a lot of you keep saying it. Maybe the coach is just playing the players that are good enough to play... take the winning out of it, all of our players deserve and have earned playing time.

Like another poster said, we lose people say we have no talent, when we win you say it's too much! Make up your minds!

Its not about losing.  Its about developing our youth. 

Danny said:

“I think you have to build through the draft, but like last time we built through the draft and we developed players and we were able to trade to get some veteran guys in that were ready to win that were more compatible with Paul (Pierce) at the time, but we did it through the draft. That’s how I look at it and right now we’ll do the same thing; we’ll draft players, we’ll develop players and we’ll look for opportunities to take steps forward.”

He is still doing that. Development is aided by the vets showing them how to work and mentoring. Leave the 2 wins (2 wins!) out of it, the vets are needed. No one has a team full of kids, not one team!

I'd like to see the kids play.  Wiggins hasn't become a spoilt brat and seems to be developing great.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

If it makes no sense, then why are a lot of you still saying we are showcasing them? No one within the organization has said that's what we are doing but a lot of you keep saying it. Maybe the coach is just playing the players that are good enough to play... take the winning out of it, all of our players deserve and have earned playing time.

Like another poster said, we lose people say we have no talent, when we win you say it's too much! Make up your minds!

Its not about losing.  Its about developing our youth. 

Danny said:

“I think you have to build through the draft, but like last time we built through the draft and we developed players and we were able to trade to get some veteran guys in that were ready to win that were more compatible with Paul (Pierce) at the time, but we did it through the draft. That’s how I look at it and right now we’ll do the same thing; we’ll draft players, we’ll develop players and we’ll look for opportunities to take steps forward.”

He is still doing that. Development is aided by the vets showing them how to work and mentoring. Leave the 2 wins (2 wins!) out of it, the vets are needed. No one has a team full of kids, not one team!

I'd like to see the kids play.  Wiggins hasn't become a spoilt brat and seems to be developing great.

LMBO, the kids ARE PLAYING. The only vets who are getting minutes are Bass and Prince (Wallace gets 5 minutes once a month)!!!!! We play 9-10 guys a night and 2 are vets... WOW. 

[greece66]

These two wins moved us in front of Indy, Orlando, and Utah and is severely detrimental to our chances at landing a high draft pick.  It really makes no sense to win games with our roster as constructed.

Exactly. I don't think Prince or Thornton or probably even Bass are part of the future, yet these guys are getting important minutes. So frustrating. What's the point here?

I don't get it either.  These are NBA veterans.  Regardless of recent performance, every GM, incompetent or not, knows what they're getting if they choose to acquire these players.

More than anything, it shows that tanking comes from management and not as much from coaching.  You generally win games with veterans and lose games with youth.  Stevens is trying to win games, despite what some people believe.

Which is why it continues to puzzle me that we have to 'showcase' these guys.  Umm, hello, they are who they are as players by this point in their respective careers, so it's not like other gms should have to see that they can contribute consistently.  It just...there are no words.  Ugh.

If it makes no sense, then why are a lot of you still saying we are showcasing them? No one within the organization has said that's what we are doing but a lot of you keep saying it. Maybe the coach is just playing the players that are good enough to play... take the winning out of it, all of our players deserve and have earned playing time.

Like another poster said, we lose people say we have no talent, when we win you say it's too much! Make up your minds!

Its not about losing.  Its about developing our youth. 

Danny said:

“I think you have to build through the draft, but like last time we built through the draft and we developed players and we were able to trade to get some veteran guys in that were ready to win that were more compatible with Paul (Pierce) at the time, but we did it through the draft. That’s how I look at it and right now we’ll do the same thing; we’ll draft players, we’ll develop players and we’ll look for opportunities to take steps forward.”

Let me do the math for you
Bass: 35 min
Wallace: 8
Prince: 17
Thornton: 18
35+8+17+18= 78
240-78= 162
ie the players who were 24 yo or younger played 162 mins.
Those who were older played 78 (largely due to Bass having a good night/us wanting to trade him and KO being injured). Do you really think this is such a big deal?

[inverselock]

Smart had five fouls.  How much more could he have played?  Crowder is not a starter in this league.  Young is, well, young.  And Sully and Bradley played the second and third most minutes of the night.

Mike

Subbed in 5:10 to go.  Already w/5 fouls.

Subbed out 3:54 for Crowder.

Just let him foul out.

[inverselock]

These two wins moved us in front of Indy, Orlando, and Utah and is severely detrimental to our chances at landing a high draft pick.  It really makes no sense to win games with our roster as constructed.

Exactly. I don't think Prince or Thornton or probably even Bass are part of the future, yet these guys are getting important minutes. So frustrating. What's the point here?

I don't get it either.  These are NBA veterans.  Regardless of recent performance, every GM, incompetent or not, knows what they're getting if they choose to acquire these players.

More than anything, it shows that tanking comes from management and not as much from coaching.  You generally win games with veterans and lose games with youth.  Stevens is trying to win games, despite what some people believe.

Which is why it continues to puzzle me that we have to 'showcase' these guys.  Umm, hello, they are who they are as players by this point in their respective careers, so it's not like other gms should have to see that they can contribute consistently.  It just...there are no words.  Ugh.

If it makes no sense, then why are a lot of you still saying we are showcasing them? No one within the organization has said that's what we are doing but a lot of you keep saying it. Maybe the coach is just playing the players that are good enough to play... take the winning out of it, all of our players deserve and have earned playing time.

Like another poster said, we lose people say we have no talent, when we win you say it's too much! Make up your minds!

Its not about losing.  Its about developing our youth. 

Danny said:

“I think you have to build through the draft, but like last time we built through the draft and we developed players and we were able to trade to get some veteran guys in that were ready to win that were more compatible with Paul (Pierce) at the time, but we did it through the draft. That’s how I look at it and right now we’ll do the same thing; we’ll draft players, we’ll develop players and we’ll look for opportunities to take steps forward.”

Let me do the math for you
Bass: 35 min
Wallace: 8
Prince: 17
Thornton: 18
35+8+17+18= 78
240-78= 162
ie the players who were 24 yo or younger played 162 mins.
Those who were older played 78 (largely due to Bass having a good night/us wanting to trade him and KO being injured). Do you really think this is such a big deal?

No big deal.

Bass isn't getting in the way of anyone. 

Would like to see Smart and Young get as many opportunities as possible. 

Take it easy guys.

[SCeltic34]

In fairness, I think it's fine that the our rookies don't get a large amount of playing time in every
single game. 

Smart gets 10 to 15 less minutes in one game due to foul trouble or poor performance.  Means nothing.

Young is 19 years old.  He will have more than his fair share of opportunities both this season and the upcoming seasons.  Logging DNPs early in an NBA career isn't detrimental to player development by any stretch of the imagination.

[Nerf DPOY]

I can't tell if people are arguing, or agreeing, or both right now. What I do know is if Kipland Dynamite makes an appearance in a game thread, the night is a success.

[SHAQATTACK]

In fairness, I think it's fine that the our rookies don't get a large amount of playing time in every
single game. 

Smart gets 10 to 15 less minutes in one game due to foul trouble or poor performance.  Means nothing.

Young is 19 years old.  He will have more than his fair share of opportunities both this season and the upcoming seasons.  Logging DNPs early in an NBA career isn't detrimental to player development by any stretch of the imagination.

AB was hurt much of his rookie years......he really is just coming into his own as a offensive player.  He has a lot of passing and handle issues....but his shooting seems to be getting much better .

Kudos to little Kobe .....for knocking down the clutch shots tonight.......it's what we need to win.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

In fairness, I think it's fine that the our rookies don't get a large amount of playing time in every
single game. 

Smart gets 10 to 15 less minutes in one game due to foul trouble or poor performance.  Means nothing.

Young is 19 years old.  He will have more than his fair share of opportunities both this season and the upcoming seasons.  Logging DNPs early in an NBA career isn't detrimental to player development by any stretch of the imagination.

AB was hurt much of his rookie years......he really is just coming into his own as a offensive player.  He has a lot of passing and handle issues....but his shooting seems to be getting much better .

Kudos to little Kobe .....for knocking down the clutch shots tonight.......it's what we need to win.

There we go. Lot's of people are always ready to scream he sucks, it's always good to see (a couple) people give him props when he does play well.

Like yesterday, we don't win without him but it took seconds for the threads about how bad he is to pop up. He had a big turnover last night but he had a good game! Took that one mistake and disregarded everything else he did right.

AB has mostly played some good basketball since the RR trade. All I continue to see are the negative threads (that only come up when he doesn't do well  )!

You would think he was a failed 30yo top 10 lottery pick with all the lashing out on him people tend to do.

[Nerf DPOY]

In fairness, I think it's fine that the our rookies don't get a large amount of playing time in every
single game. 

Smart gets 10 to 15 less minutes in one game due to foul trouble or poor performance.  Means nothing.

Young is 19 years old.  He will have more than his fair share of opportunities both this season and the upcoming seasons.  Logging DNPs early in an NBA career isn't detrimental to player development by any stretch of the imagination.

AB was hurt much of his rookie years......he really is just coming into his own as a offensive player.  He has a lot of passing and handle issues....but his shooting seems to be getting much better .

Kudos to little Kobe .....for knocking down the clutch shots tonight.......it's what we need to win.

There we go. Lot's of people are always ready to scream he sucks, it's always good to see (a couple) people give him props when he does play well.

Like yesterday, we don't win without him but it took seconds for the threads about how bad he is to pop up. He had a big turnover last night but he had a good game! Took that one mistake and disregarded everything else he did right.

AB has mostly played some good basketball since the RR trade. All I continue to see are the negative threads (that only come up when he doesn't do well  )!

You would think he was a failed 30yo top 10 lottery pick with all the lashing out on him people tend to do.

Like clockwork, players who make vet money on bad teams always take the brunt of criticism from fans because in people's minds, that salary is preventing the team from signing the next big FA. It's not rational, but it is what it is.

[jpotter33]

These two wins moved us in front of Indy, Orlando, and Utah and is severely detrimental to our chances at landing a high draft pick.  It really makes no sense to win games with our roster as constructed.

Exactly. I don't think Prince or Thornton or probably even Bass are part of the future, yet these guys are getting important minutes. So frustrating. What's the point here?

I don't get it either.  These are NBA veterans.  Regardless of recent performance, every GM, incompetent or not, knows what they're getting if they choose to acquire these players.

More than anything, it shows that tanking comes from management and not as much from coaching.  You generally win games with veterans and lose games with youth.  Stevens is trying to win games, despite what some people believe.

Which is why it continues to puzzle me that we have to 'showcase' these guys.  Umm, hello, they are who they are as players by this point in their respective careers, so it's not like other gms should have to see that they can contribute consistently.  It just...there are no words.  Ugh.

If it makes no sense, then why are a lot of you still saying we are showcasing them? No one within the organization has said that's what we are doing but a lot of you keep saying it. Maybe the coach is just playing the players that are good enough to play... take the winning out of it, all of our players deserve and have earned playing time.

Like another poster said, we lose people say we have no talent, when we win you say it's too much! Make up your minds!

Its not about losing.  Its about developing our youth. 

Danny said:

“I think you have to build through the draft, but like last time we built through the draft and we developed players and we were able to trade to get some veteran guys in that were ready to win that were more compatible with Paul (Pierce) at the time, but we did it through the draft. That’s how I look at it and right now we’ll do the same thing; we’ll draft players, we’ll develop players and we’ll look for opportunities to take steps forward.”

Let me do the math for you
Bass: 35 min
Wallace: 8
Prince: 17
Thornton: 18
35+8+17+18= 78
240-78= 162
ie the players who were 24 yo or younger played 162 mins.
Those who were older played 78 (largely due to Bass having a good night/us wanting to trade him and KO being injured). Do you really think this is such a big deal?

My only real concerns are Smart and Young's minutes; Brad has already shown he's going to give our other young guys minutes. There's absolutely no reason Smart should not be averaging 30 minutes a game at this point, and, honestly, I don't think there's any reason to have Young keep racking up DNPs. Smart has only hit 30+ minutes five times this season, which is unacceptable to me. I'm done with trades and showcasing our vets. If it hasn't happened already it just isn't going to happen at all. We saw last year how a win or two can make a HUGE difference, granted I'm totally happy with Smart.