Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 609178 times)

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1050 on: May 07, 2015, 09:05:57 PM »

Offline Eja117

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My bro has convinced me it may be in the best interests of the Pats to have Brady suspended for maybe 3 games. Inevitably Garapalo will tear it up and the Pats can trade him for a first rounder. Unfortunately it is likely Belichik would pick some unneeded player from Rutgers that nobody has ever heard of.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1051 on: May 07, 2015, 09:18:21 PM »

Offline Cman

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You should be suspended for the season ;D

I think TB will be fined $100k. He might be suspended for one game. The NFL wants to appear "tough" so they'll perhaps suspend him. But they can't really suspend him for more than a game given the lack of hard evidence. The NFL certainly won't suspend him for a long period of time like half a season or a whole season. The reason for this is simple. It raises the probability that TB fires back with a defamation suit. That's the last thing the NFL wants. The NFL wants everything about this season in the rear view mirror.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1052 on: May 07, 2015, 09:21:11 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Quote
"In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."

- Page 228, Article 13
See how fun it is to take quotes that support your side?

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1053 on: May 07, 2015, 11:46:45 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Pretty sure Tom Brady used Hillary Clinton's private email server to surreptitiously coordinate plans for deflating footballs.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1054 on: May 07, 2015, 11:52:41 PM »

Offline Forza Juventus

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Not an american football fan but the nfl hired Exponent and that is messed up. Not surprised at all though.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1055 on: May 08, 2015, 03:47:18 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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One factor that the Wells report ignores is the amount of time that passed between measuring the Pats footballs vs. the Colts. This is an important factor because the pressure returns very quickly.  I read about an experiment that was done back in January about balls taken from a 70 degree room to a 40 degree temperature outside and the balls dropped 1.5 psi as expected.  But after just 15 minutes in the 70 degree room, the psi had adjusted back.

We know the Patriots footballs were measure first and only 4 Colts balls were measured as they ran out of time.  We also know the officials locker room was just over 70 degrees.  So, if the Patriots footballs were measured on average of just 5 minutes or so earlier, that could explain the entire difference between each team's footballs.

Edit:  Upon reading further, I see that the Exponent report does address this and determines that it does not account for the full difference.  The problem I have with this is that this determination assumes they have perfect information to the times each team's balls were measured.  By their own calculations if the time disparity is just two minutes longer than their assumptions, then their calculations would account for the entire difference between the two sets of balls.  Just two minutes of an estimated timeframe provided by the referees would change their conclusion entirely.

TP


the funny thing about the PSI thing is that it's not nearly as simple as some are making it out to be.

anderson claims the colts balls were around 13 PSI, and the pats were 12.5 before the game.
 
at halftime, the refs measure the 12 pats balls, which according to their graph average 11.3, and then they measure just 4 of the colts' balls, which average 12.5. so, if the refs' original measurements were accurate, the colts balls lost around .5 PSI and the pats' balls lost around 1.2 PSI.

the .7 difference in lost PSI between the 2 teams' balls looks a bit suspicious.
but there could be legit reasons:

-as knuckleballer notes above, there was a time difference from when the two teams' balls were measured. that time could have warmed the colts' balls a bit more than the pats', raising their PSI as a result.
- did the refs use the same gauge for both teams when they first measured the balls? they had 2 different gauges, and there was a consistent .4 PSI difference between the 2 gauges. that is "huge", at least in terms of this silly story.
-only 4 colts balls were tested. what if those balls were the ones warm and safe in the bag, and hadn't been exposed to the elements? those 4 could be outliers, we'll never know if the rest were lower or not. and the pats certainly had their balls on the field a lot more than the colts did in the first half, so it stands to reason their balls might be a bit wetter and cooler.
-what if the colts balls at the start of the game were 13.5, and not 13.0. as anderson suggests? what if he made a mistake? that would account for most of the .7 differential in lost PSI. the refs also made a blatant error in one of the readings they logged for one of the colts' balls (the footnotes admit as much). keep in mind there's only a .7 PSI difference between the amount of air both teams' balls lost. a lot is riding on the refs' having not been negligent or made mistakes.
-as others have noted, Exponent Inc, the lab hired by the NFL, is extremely shady, and according to an LA times report is basically a shill for big businesses to put out scientific propaganda that makes them look good.  not exactly the most credible lab to be using for such an "important" investigation.


in closing, there's plenty of reason to doubt the league's "scientific" conclusions; sadly for the pats, the text messages are much harder to explain. without those texts, i think the pats easily beat the rap. goes to show that, in this digital age, be careful what you do. some of it (or all?) sticks forever.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1056 on: May 08, 2015, 06:21:01 AM »

Offline Eja117

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I wonder if exponent took into account Gronk spiking the ball

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1057 on: May 08, 2015, 08:29:41 AM »

Offline clover

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The stigma, of course, isn't good for the Pats.

But giving Jimmy G. a couple of starts could be very good for the Pats: they get to see more of what they have in him as Brady's successor and he gets valuable experience, which could be especially relevant if Brady goes down this season. Meanwhile, Old Man Brady gets a little less wear and tear on the year. And the team should actually be good enough to end up at the top of the AFC even without Brady in there for a couple of games.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1058 on: May 08, 2015, 09:11:06 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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You should be suspended for the season ;D

I think TB will be fined $100k. He might be suspended for one game. The NFL wants to appear "tough" so they'll perhaps suspend him. But they can't really suspend him for more than a game given the lack of hard evidence. The NFL certainly won't suspend him for a long period of time like half a season or a whole season. The reason for this is simple. It raises the probability that TB fires back with a defamation suit. That's the last thing the NFL wants. The NFL wants everything about this season in the rear view mirror.

I agree with you, but there's no way Brady sues the NFL. He knows which way his bread is buttered.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1059 on: May 08, 2015, 09:30:06 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I have to say, the statement released by Tom Brady's agent, about why they chose not to hand over his phone etc, actually made sense.

He made the point that Brady is part of the player's association, unlike the two ball attendants, and his decision to volunteer his private information to the league office absent a subpoena could set a precedent for other players in the future.

I also tend to agree with the assertion that the Wells Report comes across like it began with a certain conclusion -- i.e. the Pats did wrong and it wasn't the NFL's fault -- and did whatever was necessary to try and reach that conclusion.  If Brady and his reps felt that was the case from the beginning, what was really to be gained by cooperating?


Jackie Mac may be right that Brady should have been more upfront from the start about what did or did not happen.  Simply saying something along the lines of what I think actually happened:

"I have a preference for how I want the ball to be prepared, how I want it to feel in my hand when I go to throw in game.  I communicate that to the ball guys to do their best to get the balls that way.  I never told anybody to break any rules.  Sometimes the way the balls are given to us, they're a lot different than how I like them, and the ball guys know that.  If any rules were broken by the ball prep, I want to apologize for that.  It was never my intention.  I respect the integrity of the game."

But then again, with the Super Bowl coming up, why take the risk, however tiny, that admitting even that could affect the team's chances to win.  I'm sure Brady would prefer to get suspended for a few games to start this next season, 4th Super Bowl in hand.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1060 on: May 08, 2015, 09:58:14 AM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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I saw on Twitter from some NFL Insider, I forget who exactly, but he said the Pats play the Colts game 5, and that would be a perfect 'return game' for Brady, so he's expecting maybe 4 games.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1061 on: May 08, 2015, 10:06:31 AM »

Online Moranis

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I'm guessing 8 games, but wouldn't be surprised with 4 or 6.  I think more than 8 or less than 4 are very unlikely to happen.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1062 on: May 08, 2015, 10:15:39 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm guessing 8 games, but wouldn't be surprised with 4 or 6.  I think more than 8 or less than 4 are very unlikely to happen.

You really think the NFL is going to basically torpedo the Pats' season? 

That would be a pretty major punishment.  Totally undermine the Pats' chance at defending their title.  Probably prevent one of the biggest and most successful teams in the league from getting back to the playoffs.

Sure, the Pats would still have Brady for half the season, and they're a talented team.  But I think the division is strong enough that starting Jimmy G for 8 games would sink the Pats.  The Bills won 9 games last year and missed the playoffs.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1063 on: May 08, 2015, 10:18:47 AM »

Online Moranis

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I'm guessing 8 games, but wouldn't be surprised with 4 or 6.  I think more than 8 or less than 4 are very unlikely to happen.

You really think the NFL is going to basically torpedo the Pats' season? 

That would be a pretty major punishment.  Totally undermine the Pats' chance at defending their title.  Probably prevent one of the biggest and most successful teams in the league from getting back to the playoffs.

Sure, the Pats would still have Brady for half the season, and they're a talented team.  But I think the division is strong enough that starting Jimmy G for 8 games would sink the Pats.  The Bills won 9 games last year and missed the playoffs.
I think they are are going to send a strong message, especially since it looks like this type of cheating has been going on a long time (it wasn't just the Colts game).  And this is after all the team that is always skating that fine line between legal and not legal activities for 20 years.  Brady was intimately involved here and is going to take the fall for the whole organization.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1064 on: May 08, 2015, 10:26:33 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm guessing 8 games, but wouldn't be surprised with 4 or 6.  I think more than 8 or less than 4 are very unlikely to happen.

You really think the NFL is going to basically torpedo the Pats' season? 

That would be a pretty major punishment.  Totally undermine the Pats' chance at defending their title.  Probably prevent one of the biggest and most successful teams in the league from getting back to the playoffs.

Sure, the Pats would still have Brady for half the season, and they're a talented team.  But I think the division is strong enough that starting Jimmy G for 8 games would sink the Pats.  The Bills won 9 games last year and missed the playoffs.

I think they are are going to send a strong message, especially since it looks like this type of cheating has been going on a long time (it wasn't just the Colts game).  And this is after all the team that is always skating that fine line between legal and not legal activities for 20 years.  Brady was intimately involved here and is going to take the fall for the whole organization.

Yeah, except the Pats are also kind of the class of the league in terms of running things the way the league would want things to be run (organization first, players second).  So I don't think the league really wants to make the Pats into this pariah organization.  Brady is also one of the icons of the league, so same deal. 

This isn't like when the Saints were getting punished.  And "game integrity" is a much less explosive public relations issue for the NFL than domestic violence or player safety are and were.


I think the NFL has to take a relatively strong stance here, if only because that's the position they've put themselves in with this Wells Report.  That said, I just can't imagine them doing to the Pats what they did to the Saints, which was basically, "You are going to have a lost year this year.  Forget about having a successful season.  Your team will not be relevant this year, except as a cautionary tale."


That's why I believe they'll fine Brady and suspend him for a couple of games.  Four at most.  Enough to make the Pats sweat and perhaps cause the division race to be a little more interesting.  But not enough to totally undermine their season.  The NFL isn't going to kill one of the last 3 or 4 seasons of one of their greatest and most beloved players ever.
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