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Author Topic: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland  (Read 6809 times)

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Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« on: December 31, 2014, 12:44:40 AM »

Offline HeadDoctorJ

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Boston gets: Tayshaun Prince, Jordan Adams, Brendan Haywood, Memphis 2015 1st (via Cleveland), TPE for Brandan Wright ($5.0M), TPE for Jameer Nelson ($2.7M)
  • Boston gives up: Jeff Green, Brandan Wright, Brandon Bass, Jameer Nelson
Cleveland gets: Kosta Koufos, Nick Calathes, Brandan Wright
  • Cleveland gives up: Brendan Haywood, Alex Kirk, Memphis 2015 1st
Memphis gets: Jeff Green, Brandon Bass, Jameer Nelson, Alex Kirk
  • Memphis gives up: Tayshaun Prince, Kosta Koufos, Jordan Adams, Nick Calathes

***Wright and Nelson are absorbed into the trade exceptions possessed by Cleveland and Memphis, respectively, and as separate deals
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2014, 01:24:39 AM »

Offline HomerSapien

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We give up kind of a lot for only getting a 1st rounder in the mid 20's and Jordan Adams, no?  I think Brendan Haywood's contract really only has value to a contender who is over the cap and the rest is just filler. 

Trade does make a lot of sense for Memphis and CLE though, and I do like Jordan Adams but I'm not sure it's worth it for the C's.
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2014, 01:47:07 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Quote from: HomerSapien on December 31, 2014, 01:24:39 AM
We give up kind of a lot for only getting a 1st rounder in the mid 20's and Jordan Adams, no?  I think Brendan Haywood's contract really only has value to a contender who is over the cap and the rest is just filler. 

Trade does make a lot of sense for Memphis and CLE though, and I do like Jordan Adams but I'm not sure it's worth it for the C's.

The Haywood contract doesn't become guaranteed until Aug 1st so he could be traded to an over the cap team during the off season. 
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2014, 04:33:36 AM »

Offline HeadDoctorJ

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Those TPEs could be useful, too. And when it comes time to trade Haywood, we may be able to flip him into another TPE worth around $10M. There's a fair amount of hidden value in there for Boston, and though the guys we'd be sending away are talented, they are also a bunch of veterans on expiring contracts who have no real future here. I doubt it's the best we could possibly get under ideal conditions, but I like the return as a solid attempt to maximize our assets and take another good step forward into this rebuild.
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2014, 08:13:02 AM »

Online Moranis

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wright and nelson can't be traded with other players.
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2014, 08:13:15 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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I like the trade and think its makes sense all around. My only worry would be Memphis not wanting to under go that big of a roster change mid season.


Another possible wrinkle that could be added to this would be a deal sending T Prince to the Raptors for L Fields and a sweetener (best case Nogueira, more likely the rights to DeAndre Daniels or a 2nd rd pick). Prince would give then a veteran big wing which they lack. His playoff experience would also be valuable to this young team.
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2014, 08:28:50 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Quote from: Moranis on December 31, 2014, 08:13:02 AM
wright and nelson can't be traded with other players.

Actually, they can. They just can't have their salaries aggregated. Also, they Celtics possess TPE's that could be used to absorb each one of the incoming salaries individually, so again, there are multiple ways to make such a deal work.

That of course says nothing for the fact it's a somewhat meager return for Jeff Green. I'd rather just keep him and re-sign him this summer.
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2014, 08:31:48 AM »

Offline ssspence

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Better than most proposals on the blog. I agree this on the light side of value for the Cs, but overall I think it makes some sense. And given the choice between this and nothing before the deadline -- I'd do this, though I think you could remove Bass and Nelson from the equation.

Two issues I see here: 1) Do Memphis and Cleveland want to make each other better?, and 2) Memphis gets thin at center. Assuming you get past issue 1, I think you could simplify this deal to be:

To Memphis: Green, Wright

To Cleveland: Kostos

To Boston: Prince, Adams, MEM 1st from CLE, Hayword, a little filler from one or the other.

Or,to make this deal more sensible for both other teams, you could do it sooner as two separate deals:

Deal 1 ~

To Memphis: Wright

To Cleveland: Kostos, Cathetes

To Boston: Haywood, Stokes, MEM 1st from CLE

Deal 2 ~

To Memphis: Green

To Boston: Prince, Adams

But, all in all, I give you a TP for the overall idea

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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2014, 08:54:34 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Quote from: HomerSapien on December 31, 2014, 01:24:39 AM
We give up kind of a lot for only getting a 1st rounder in the mid 20's and Jordan Adams, no?  I think Brendan Haywood's contract really only has value to a contender who is over the cap and the rest is just filler. 

Trade does make a lot of sense for Memphis and CLE though, and I do like Jordan Adams but I'm not sure it's worth it for the C's.

The Memphis pick is popular because it's protected similar to the Dallas pick, but better.  It conveys only if Memphis picks from 6-14 this year or next, and is top 5 protected in 2017 and 2018, before being unprotected in 2019.  It's not difficult to imagine Memphis missing the playoffs but not being tankaliciously bad sometime in the next three seasons, in which case you get a pick in the 6-14 range sometime between now and 2017.  And if they do manage to hit a top 5 pick and fall into the protection, it's unlikely they'll rebound quickly the following year and make the playoffs, because teams normally don't get that bad for a single season to rebound so quickly.  Whoever gets that pick Cleveland is owed, be it Cleveland or someone else, will probably get a mid-to-late lottery pick at some point.  It was protected very well.
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2014, 09:04:07 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Fun idea, but Memphis is taking on way too much salary.  They are subject to the hard cap of $80.7 million as they used the BAE to sign Udrih.  Depending what site you look at, they are $4-5 million under this, and this trade adds about $8 million to their payroll. Also, it's generally understood that Memphis ownership will not go over the luxury tax, and they currently have no more than a million in room.  Any trade with Memphis needs to be payroll neutral or drop salary for them, pretty much.
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2014, 09:19:49 AM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Quote from: saltlover on December 31, 2014, 08:54:34 AM
Quote from: HomerSapien on December 31, 2014, 01:24:39 AM
We give up kind of a lot for only getting a 1st rounder in the mid 20's and Jordan Adams, no?  I think Brendan Haywood's contract really only has value to a contender who is over the cap and the rest is just filler. 

Trade does make a lot of sense for Memphis and CLE though, and I do like Jordan Adams but I'm not sure it's worth it for the C's.

The Memphis pick is popular because it's protected similar to the Dallas pick, but better.  It conveys only if Memphis picks from 6-14 this year or next, and is top 5 protected in 2017 and 2018, before being unprotected in 2019.  It's not difficult to imagine Memphis missing the playoffs but not being tankaliciously bad sometime in the next three seasons, in which case you get a pick in the 6-14 range sometime between now and 2017.  And if they do manage to hit a top 5 pick and fall into the protection, it's unlikely they'll rebound quickly the following year and make the playoffs, because teams normally don't get that bad for a single season to rebound so quickly.  Whoever gets that pick Cleveland is owed, be it Cleveland or someone else, will probably get a mid-to-late lottery pick at some point.  It was protected very well.

If Memphis is involved in the deal with us and Cleveland, why can't we have them remove whatever restrictions we'd like? . E.g not protected 20-30 as the only restriction which benefits us, so we only get the pick if it falls before twenty, or whatever Danny wants..
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2014, 09:30:28 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Quote from: csfansince60s on December 31, 2014, 09:19:49 AM
Quote from: saltlover on December 31, 2014, 08:54:34 AM
Quote from: HomerSapien on December 31, 2014, 01:24:39 AM
We give up kind of a lot for only getting a 1st rounder in the mid 20's and Jordan Adams, no?  I think Brendan Haywood's contract really only has value to a contender who is over the cap and the rest is just filler. 

Trade does make a lot of sense for Memphis and CLE though, and I do like Jordan Adams but I'm not sure it's worth it for the C's.

The Memphis pick is popular because it's protected similar to the Dallas pick, but better.  It conveys only if Memphis picks from 6-14 this year or next, and is top 5 protected in 2017 and 2018, before being unprotected in 2019.  It's not difficult to imagine Memphis missing the playoffs but not being tankaliciously bad sometime in the next three seasons, in which case you get a pick in the 6-14 range sometime between now and 2017.  And if they do manage to hit a top 5 pick and fall into the protection, it's unlikely they'll rebound quickly the following year and make the playoffs, because teams normally don't get that bad for a single season to rebound so quickly.  Whoever gets that pick Cleveland is owed, be it Cleveland or someone else, will probably get a mid-to-late lottery pick at some point.  It was protected very well.

If Memphis is involved in the deal with us and Cleveland, why can't we have them remove whatever restrictions we'd like? . E.g not protected 20-30 as the only restriction which benefits us, so we only get the pick if it falls before twenty, or whatever Danny wants..

You could if the teams agreed to it.  I personally like the current restrictions well enough, and I don't think Memphis removes the top 5 protection. I'm pretty confident Memphis misses the playoffs by 2017.
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2014, 09:45:35 AM »

Offline HomerSapien

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I didn't realize the extent of the protection on that pick.  Definitely makes me like it more than I previously had.
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2014, 09:53:31 AM »

Online Moranis

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If you just want the pick, why not just trade Wright to Cleveland for the pick.  Cleveland has a TPE that would fit Wright.  No need to do the Memphis part of the trade at all.
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Re: Snagging that Memphis 1st from Cleveland
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2014, 09:58:30 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Quote from: HomerSapien on December 31, 2014, 01:24:39 AM
We give up kind of a lot for only getting a 1st rounder in the mid 20's and Jordan Adams, no?  I think Brendan Haywood's contract really only has value to a contender who is over the cap and the rest is just filler. 

This - spot on
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