Rondo settling in now

[LarBrd33]

I'm probably being stubborn, but I'm still not sold on Dallas at all.  Not convinced that Rondo makes them better.   They were a solid team without him... I think their offense got a little worse.   THey've yet to beat anyone substantial with Rondo.  Yeah I know they beat Spurs C-team and Oklahoma without Durant... let's see how they do against real competition, though.

[LarBrd33]

I think the biggest mistake people are making in this "debate" is comparing the Mavs to Boston.  "Oh Boston is losing games and Mavs are winning games... so clearly the trade was bad". 

GOtta keep reminding yourselves that Boston was a 25 win team last year... they had a 16 win pace in games that Rondo played. 

Gotta keep reminding yourselves that Dallas had the highest scoring and most efficient offense in the league prior to the trade... they were one of the top playoff seeds in the West before the move.

Boston is still bad.  Dallas is still good.  I just don't think Rondo makes as much a difference as people believe.  Danny didn't either... hence why we got rid of him for next to nothing.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that this trade would make Dallas terrible and Boston suddenly world-beaters.  That wasn't the point.

[Vermont Green]

I'm probably being stubborn, but I'm still not sold on Dallas at all.  Not convinced that Rondo makes them better.   They were a solid team without him... I think their offense got a little worse.   THey've yet to beat anyone substantial with Rondo.  Yeah I know they beat Spurs C-team and Oklahoma without Durant... let's see how they do against real competition, though.

I forgot that OKC didn't have Durant so it isn't really a "good" win for Dallas, just a "supposed to" win, but Rondo appears to have played well.  Dallas was 19-8 before Rondo, we shall see if Rondo moves the needle either during the regular season or in the playoffs.  I think in the end, it will be impossible to tell whether he moved the needle or not so the debate will rage on.  I find it an interesting sub-plot to an otherwise pretty uninteresting season for the Celtics.

[RJ87]

Gotta keep reminding yourselves that Dallas had the highest scoring and most efficient offense in the league prior to the trade... they were one of the top playoff seeds in the West before the move.

But the thing is they brought him in to 1.) help guard opposing point guards  2.) on the glass 3.) help their transition offense. It's a small sample size but he seems to fitting the bill pretty well. Offensively, I don't think he's going to hurt them in that regard as much as you keep claiming. They're still working out the kinks, but it's been much smoother than I anticipated. The much maligned Rondo/Ellis backcourt is actually looking more ahead of the curve than everyone said they would at this point - Rondo doesn't seem to have an issue deferring to Ellis to run the offense especially in the fourth quarter and they seem to feed off of each other well when they're able to get out and run. For all the years Rondo played with Paul Pierce, it always seems odd that everyone keeps saying he can't coexist with a ball dominant player.

[RJ87]

I'm probably being stubborn, but I'm still not sold on Dallas at all.  Not convinced that Rondo makes them better.   They were a solid team without him... I think their offense got a little worse.   THey've yet to beat anyone substantial with Rondo.  Yeah I know they beat Spurs C-team and Oklahoma without Durant... let's see how they do against real competition, though.

I forgot that OKC didn't have Durant so it isn't really a "good" win for Dallas, just a "supposed to" win, but Rondo appears to have played well.  Dallas was 19-8 before Rondo, we shall see if Rondo moves the needle either during the regular season or in the playoffs.  I think in the end, it will be impossible to tell whether he moved the needle or not so the debate will rage on.  I find it an interesting sub-plot to an otherwise pretty uninteresting season for the Celtics.

To be fair, Dallas was also without Tyson Chandler. They ran a lineup of Rondo/Ellis/Barea/Parsons/Dirk... Yes, Barea was playing the 3. So who should have won that game really?

[GreenFaith1819]

Good .

I wish Rondo, Dirk, Tyson and Co. well. May they gave the Lakers fits and go far in the playoffs.

I had DAL as my dark horse team even before the Trade, and now? I like them even more.

They are going to need to acquire a defensive big to backup Chandler before I'd consider them a true contender this year.

They are rumored to be eyeing JO. I think this would be a good move. JO played well in GSW last year, plus he's played with Rondo before.

If they can find a decent backup SF, this would be idea, too. Parsons has the size to spot Dirk for stretches at PF.

DAL is going to surprise some teams this year.

[tazzmaniac]

I'm probably being stubborn, but I'm still not sold on Dallas at all.  Not convinced that Rondo makes them better.   They were a solid team without him... I think their offense got a little worse.   THey've yet to beat anyone substantial with Rondo.  Yeah I know they beat Spurs C-team and Oklahoma without Durant... let's see how they do against real competition, though.

I forgot that OKC didn't have Durant so it isn't really a "good" win for Dallas, just a "supposed to" win, but Rondo appears to have played well.  Dallas was 19-8 before Rondo, we shall see if Rondo moves the needle either during the regular season or in the playoffs.  I think in the end, it will be impossible to tell whether he moved the needle or not so the debate will rage on.  I find it an interesting sub-plot to an otherwise pretty uninteresting season for the Celtics.

To be fair, Dallas was also without Tyson Chandler. They ran a lineup of Rondo/Ellis/Barea/Parsons/Dirk... Yes, Barea was playing the 3. So who should have won that game really?

Also Dirk picked up his 5th foul at the beginning of the 4th and had to sit until the 6 minute mark or so and Ellis injured his ankle with a minute to go and had to leave the game.  Even with Durant out, it was a very good win for OKC which would not have without Rondo's defense on Westbrook. 
 

[tazzmaniac]

Good .

I wish Rondo, Dirk, Tyson and Co. well. May they gave the Lakers fits and go far in the playoffs.

I had DAL as my dark horse team even before the Trade, and now? I like them even more.

They are going to need to acquire a defensive big to backup Chandler before I'd consider them a true contender this year.

They are rumored to be eyeing JO. I think this would be a good move. JO played well in GSW last year, plus he's played with Rondo before.

If they can find a decent backup SF, this would be idea, too. Parsons has the size to spot Dirk for stretches at PF.

DAL is going to surprise some teams this year.

Sounds like JO will make his decision in the next couple of weeks and from his comments it sounds like his family is making the decision.  Since they live in Dallas, its probably either play for Dallas or stay retired. 

The playoff matchups in the west are going to be great but who Dallas draws in the 1st round could be critical for their chances.  If I was them I'd rather face Houston than say OKC or the Spurs.   

[IlCapitano]

I'm probably being stubborn, but I'm still not sold on Dallas at all.  Not convinced that Rondo makes them better.   They were a solid team without him... I think their offense got a little worse.   THey've yet to beat anyone substantial with Rondo.  Yeah I know they beat Spurs C-team and Oklahoma without Durant... let's see how they do against real competition, though.

You conviniently chose to ignore the fact that Dallas played without Tyson who, at this moment, means more to Dallas than Durant means to OKC with Westbrook playing the way he has been.

You also 'forgot' to mention that Rondo completely shut down Westbrook, in the 4th especially.

And this:

...says that Rondo actually makes the difference.

[tazzmaniac]

I think the biggest mistake people are making in this "debate" is comparing the Mavs to Boston.  "Oh Boston is losing games and Mavs are winning games... so clearly the trade was bad". 

GOtta keep reminding yourselves that Boston was a 25 win team last year... they had a 16 win pace in games that Rondo played. 

Gotta keep reminding yourselves that Dallas had the highest scoring and most efficient offense in the league prior to the trade... they were one of the top playoff seeds in the West before the move.

Boston is still bad.  Dallas is still good.  I just don't think Rondo makes as much a difference as people believe.  Danny didn't either... hence why we got rid of him for next to nothing.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that this trade would make Dallas terrible and Boston suddenly world-beaters.  That wasn't the point.

I haven't heard anybody claim that Dallas acquiring Rondo makes them a sure fire favorite in the west either.  Considering their poor defense, I still think they are an underdog even with Rondo. I'm not a gambler but the first vegas odds I found have them tied with the Clippers with the 4th best odds to win the west behind the Spurs, Warriors and Thunder.  I can say that Nelson would never have been able to defend Westbrook like Rondo did so I doubt Dallas would have won their game with OKC. 

Its not clear to me what it is going to take for you to concede that Dallas made a good trade acquiring Rondo for a few role players and a late 1st.  It may not work out for them but it was certainly worth the risk. 

[Al91]

I'm probably being stubborn, but I'm still not sold on Dallas at all.  Not convinced that Rondo makes them better.   They were a solid team without him... I think their offense got a little worse.   THey've yet to beat anyone substantial with Rondo.  Yeah I know they beat Spurs C-team and Oklahoma without Durant... let's see how they do against real competition, though.

You conviniently chose to ignore the fact that Dallas played without Tyson who, at this moment, means more to Dallas than Durant means to OKC with Westbrook playing the way he has been.

You also 'forgot' to mention that Rondo completely shut down Westbrook, in the 4th especially.

And this:

...says that Rondo actually makes the difference.

TP for sharing that image before I was able to.

People need to stop making excuses for Dallas's wins. We can say what we want about Dallas beating an OKC team sans Durant but have we forgotten how the same OKC team beat a fully operational Spurs team on Christmas day? Have we forgotten how Westbrook was heralded as a MVP candidate before the season began when Durant went down? Thought so. OKC isn't some crapshoot team by any means.

I hate stats but they speak for themselves above. How does anyone with a sane mind not expect a league-leading offense to change when three players are exchanged for two different players? It's not the same team. Flat out, point blank. The team changes. The defense has gotten better. Their rebounding has gotten better. Their offense has slipped to second in the league I believe. Lawd have mercy. Who cares if Rondo is an all star or not anymore? This team was billed as a playoff team before the season began but a legit contender? Who knows. I do know that Jameer Nelson wasn't going to the be the starting PG on a championship squad in 2014 that possibly goes through CP3, Westbrook, or TP on the way to the Finals.

[tazzmaniac]

I'm probably being stubborn, but I'm still not sold on Dallas at all.  Not convinced that Rondo makes them better.   They were a solid team without him... I think their offense got a little worse.   THey've yet to beat anyone substantial with Rondo.  Yeah I know they beat Spurs C-team and Oklahoma without Durant... let's see how they do against real competition, though.

You conviniently chose to ignore the fact that Dallas played without Tyson who, at this moment, means more to Dallas than Durant means to OKC with Westbrook playing the way he has been.

You also 'forgot' to mention that Rondo completely shut down Westbrook, in the 4th especially.

And this:

...says that Rondo actually makes the difference.

Great post.  My first given TP to you.  What site are the stats from? 

[TheTruthFot18]

He did great when the big three were here too and the Mavs are a great fit for him.

That aside, moving him was hard and we didn't get as much back as we wanted but it was the last step to speeding up the rebuilding process. More playing time for the young guys and trade chips

[IlCapitano]

I'm probably being stubborn, but I'm still not sold on Dallas at all.  Not convinced that Rondo makes them better.   They were a solid team without him... I think their offense got a little worse.   THey've yet to beat anyone substantial with Rondo.  Yeah I know they beat Spurs C-team and Oklahoma without Durant... let's see how they do against real competition, though.

You conviniently chose to ignore the fact that Dallas played without Tyson who, at this moment, means more to Dallas than Durant means to OKC with Westbrook playing the way he has been.

You also 'forgot' to mention that Rondo completely shut down Westbrook, in the 4th especially.

And this:

...says that Rondo actually makes the difference.

Great post.  My first given TP to you.  What site are the stats from?

Thanks man, right back at you.

I don't know about the site. I picked it up on Twitter from a Mavs insider/writer. I'll ask and if he responds I'll let you know.

[tazzmaniac]

He did great when the big three were here too and the Mavs are a great fit for him.

That aside, moving him was hard and we didn't get as much back as we wanted but it was the last step to speeding up the rebuilding process. More playing time for the young guys and trade chips

Ainge is going to have to make some more moves before I'd agree that the rebuilding process has been sped up.  One late 1st doesn't move the needle for me.  Right now, we just added a few more role players that are taking up playing time.  Thank goodness we have Maine or the only activity Young would be seeing is pulling splinters from his posterior.