Hypothetically if you replaced Rondo with LeBron, how many games would we win?

[LarBrd33]

Follow-up question for anyone bold enough to answer it without the snark... if you replaced our very best player, Rajon Rondo, with an elite interior defender... say Marc Gasol, for instance... Does the loss of Rondo offset the addition of the elite interior defender?  Say it left our lineup as PG - Smart, SG - Bradley, SF - Green, PF - SUlly, C - Gasol... with Oly off the bench.  Still a 30 win team?

Hard to say, Gasol and Conley feed off each other so well I'm not sure how well Gasol would function without an elite to very good playmaker. It might not have any effect, but I'm not sure.

Our offense would take a hit.  But our most glaring weakness (by far) is interior defense.   Gasol doesn't have to be the example if you think there's a better interior defender.  My hypothetical question is, if you solved our biggest weakness at the loss of Rondo, would the benefit offset the negative?  Would we remain a 30 win team? 

By the way, I agree with you that replacing Rondo with LeBron would take us from 30 win to 50 win team.  Our interior defense would still kill us though.  Curious what you think would happen if we replaced our best player with an elite interior defender. 

[RJ87]

How about if we replaced Phil Pressey with Lebron?

98?

I can see none of you are taking this question seriously, because you think my intention is to insult Rondo.  I'm not trying to insult Rondo here.  I genuinely want to have a conversation about basketball positions and the importance of consistent scoring.  This team is going to struggle this year, because night in and night out, they have nobody they can rely on for consistent buckets.  Rondo will do what he does brilliantly... find open men and rack up the assists.  When the mediocre shooters are streaking, it's going to look glorious (game 1 vs the nets and the end of the game tonight)... but when the mediocre shooters clang them, the team is going to struggle.  They'll have nobody they can feed the ball to and rely on them... it's going to be a guessing game.  Dish it to Sully.. is he feeling it?  Nope.  Hmm...try Oly.  Nope.  Try Bradley.  Nope.   Try Smart.  Nope.  Throw turner in there and see how he does... Nope.  Try Sully agin.  Nope.     My question is, how much does that change when you add a guy who you can consistently rely on to get you buckets every single time he steps on the court.  I genuinely want to know if you guys think it matters... if you replaced Rondo with LeBron, do you think this continues to be a 30 win team... or not?

Follow-up question for anyone bold enough to answer it without the snark... if you replaced our very best player, Rajon Rondo, with an elite interior defender... say Marc Gasol, for instance... Does the loss of Rondo offset the addition of the elite interior defender?  Say it left our lineup as PG - Smart, SG - Bradley, SF - Green, PF - SUlly, C - Gasol... with Oly off the bench.  Still a 30 win team?

Considering we'd be addressing the biggest weakness this team has had for the past 2 years, yes we'd improve.

And no one's taking the original question seriously because it's not really interesting. You could switch out LeBron on pretty much any team in the league and see a marked improvement. What if you put him on the Grizzlies instead of Mike Conley? Or Dallas instead if Monta Ellis?  Pheonix instead of Dragic or Bledsoe? Lowry in Toronto? The answer will be the same: the team will be better because having the best player in the world should make your team noticeably better.

[Vox_Populi]

Your question was strange because of your replacement choice. You don't need to ask people how many wins a Rondo for James exchange would net you, it's going to be 10-15...at least. That answer is constant for any player besides Durant. So around 45+ wins probably.

The Gasol one is more interesting. We lack interior defense so badly that switching Rondo with Gasol would improve us automatically. I'm not sure how much.

EDIT: See above.

[puskas54_10]

45-50 games.

[jpotter33]

First, I think this team has a much higher ceiling than you give it.  If everything went right, they could win up to 40 games.  So there's that.

With that being said, Lebron's offense would be incredibly helpful for us, and we'd have one of the strongest defensive 1-3 units in NBA history with Smart, Bradley, and James. I'd say 55 games or so max, because putting a ton of three point shooters around him in literally every position would be spectacular.

[KCattheStripe]

Follow-up question for anyone bold enough to answer it without the snark... if you replaced our very best player, Rajon Rondo, with an elite interior defender... say Marc Gasol, for instance... Does the loss of Rondo offset the addition of the elite interior defender?  Say it left our lineup as PG - Smart, SG - Bradley, SF - Green, PF - SUlly, C - Gasol... with Oly off the bench.  Still a 30 win team?

Hard to say, Gasol and Conley feed off each other so well I'm not sure how well Gasol would function without an elite to very good playmaker. It might not have any effect, but I'm not sure.

Our offense would take a hit.  But our most glaring weakness (by far) is interior defense.   Gasol doesn't have to be the example if you think there's a better interior defender.  My hypothetical question is, if you solved our biggest weakness at the loss of Rondo, would the benefit offset the negative?  Would we remain a 30 win team? 

By the way, I agree with you that replacing Rondo with LeBron would take us from 30 win to 50 win team.  Our interior defense would still kill us though.  Curious what you think would happen if we replaced our best player with an elite interior defender.

Maybe a little better, maybe a little worse. I think Rondo's ability to set up limited offensive players is the main reason this team can score at all. Gasol would make this team a defensive nightmare, but I'm not convinced they could run any type of offense. Think the difference is negligible.

[Fred Roberts]

I think Green and James would be a lethal tandem on both ends. The surrounding cast would be good enough to grab 50 wins in their sleep.

I like this team. Gotta keep playing tough like the 2nd half tonight

[jpotter33]

A Smart, Bradley, James, Green, and Zeller lineup is incredibly athletic, though Sully or Kelly's outside game would be more beneficial in this situation.

[chambers]

How about if we replaced Phil Pressey with Lebron?

98?

I can see none of you are taking this question seriously, because you think my intention is to insult Rondo.  I'm not trying to insult Rondo here.  I genuinely want to have a conversation about basketball positions and the importance of consistent scoring.  This team is going to struggle this year, because night in and night out, they have nobody they can rely on for consistent buckets.  Rondo will do what he does brilliantly... find open men and rack up the assists.  When the mediocre shooters are streaking, it's going to look glorious (game 1 vs the nets and the end of the game tonight)... but when the mediocre shooters clang them, the team is going to struggle. They'll have nobody they can feed the ball to and rely on them... it's going to be a guessing game.  Dish it to Sully.. is he feeling it?  Nope.  Hmm...try Oly.  Nope.  Try Bradley.  Nope.   Try Smart.  Nope.  Throw turner in there and see how he does... Nope.  Try Sully agin.  Nope.     My question is, how much does that change when you add a guy who you can consistently rely on to get you buckets every single time he steps on the court.  I genuinely want to know if you guys think it matters... if you replaced Rondo with LeBron, do you think this continues to be a 30 win team... or not?

Follow-up question for anyone bold enough to answer it without the snark... if you replaced our very best player, Rajon Rondo, with an elite interior defender... say Marc Gasol, for instance... Does the loss of Rondo offset the addition of the elite interior defender?  Say it left our lineup as PG - Smart, SG - Bradley, SF - Green, PF - SUlly, C - Gasol... with Oly off the bench.  Still a 30 win team?   You'd be fixing the team's most glaring weakness (interior defense), but losing it's strength.  Which is... I don't know.  What is our strength?  Having a point guard who can find open men?  I'd say our guard defense is great, but it seems Smart's prescense offsets the potential loss of Rondo in that hypothetical.

The bolded is what's fundamentally wrong with your argument. Rondo was the reason we got going in this game on the offensive end (sparked by Avery and Smart's defense too).
Without Rondo we don't get all those open threes and easy buckets for Olynyk, Sully, Bradley and Green.
He didn't pound it, he didn't wait for players to come off picks. He was aggressive and attacked the paint- not necessarily looking to score, but to create spacing and get our offense going by seeing the ball go through the hoop.

Your question should be 'what would happen if we swapped Jeff Green for Lebron'.
We have the cap room to add another two stars this offseason. We may only need one, depending on how Marcus Smart turns out. Our obvious need is a rim protector with pace. I'd love Hibbert because he's quick enough to run back to control the defensive end and back up our *arguably* league leading back court defensive threesome. He's also got the hands to finish on the pick and roll and in the post with those easy looks from Rondo.

Rondo's shooting and scoring are still incredibly frustrating, particularly his jumpshots and threes, and Lebron is the best player in the world being a great passer and playmaker....

 However he doesn't have the IQ or the court vision of Rondo (who probably has the best court awareness in the league other than Chris Paul and Steve Nash in recent history- lets call it a three way tie). Removing him from a team that relies on the ball movement they have adapted recently would be a terrible decision. Rondo has missed all pre season, training camp- he's still learning to execute the plays they're running.

Long story short- if you swapped Lebron for Rondo, you'd be making a positive change, but you wouldn't be getting the boost you're imagining because losing Rondo would be also be a huge loss.
eg Lebron swapped in for Rondo this season makes us a 45 win team but it doesn't make us any kind of 55+ win threat against the West without Rondo added to that squad.

[LarBrd33]

Your question was strange because of your replacement choice. You don't need to ask people how many wins a Rondo for James exchange would net you, it's going to be 10-15...at least. That answer is constant for any player besides Durant. So around 45+ wins probably.

The Gasol one is more interesting. We lack interior defense so badly that switching Rondo with Gasol would improve us automatically. I'm not sure how much.

EDIT: See above.

Well so far everyone has said we'd go from 30 wins to 45-50.  I picked Rondo mainly because he's the undisputed best player on this team.  Nobody disagrees with that.   It's a bit interesting, isn't it?  That if you replaced our best player with a legitimate superstar, we all seem to agree it would go from bottom 5 lotto team to playoff lock?  That in itself is interesting to me.  The gap between borderline all-star and superstar.  But it's also just interesting to think about the importance of positions and strengths.   Rondo is arguably the best passer in the league.  He's exceptional at finding open men and getting them easy looks.   So if you were to talk about the strengths of Boston, I guess you'd say... we have a guard who is really good at finding open shooters.   But it seems while that is a great strength... it's far more important to have the strength of "reliable star with elite scoring" or "elite interior defense". 

Where does the strength of "guard who is great at finding open shooters" fit on the list of desirable NBA strengths?

[Celtics18]

How about if we replaced Phil Pressey with Lebron?

98?

I can see none of you are taking this question seriously, because you think my intention is to insult Rondo.  I'm not trying to insult Rondo here.  I genuinely want to have a conversation about basketball positions and the importance of consistent scoring.  This team is going to struggle this year, because night in and night out, they have nobody they can rely on for consistent buckets.  Rondo will do what he does brilliantly... find open men and rack up the assists.  When the mediocre shooters are streaking, it's going to look glorious (game 1 vs the nets and the end of the game tonight)... but when the mediocre shooters clang them, the team is going to struggle.  They'll have nobody they can feed the ball to and rely on them... it's going to be a guessing game.  Dish it to Sully.. is he feeling it?  Nope.  Hmm...try Oly.  Nope.  Try Bradley.  Nope.   Try Smart.  Nope.  Throw turner in there and see how he does... Nope.  Try Sully agin.  Nope.     My question is, how much does that change when you add a guy who you can consistently rely on to get you buckets every single time he steps on the court.  I genuinely want to know if you guys think it matters... if you replaced Rondo with LeBron, do you think this continues to be a 30 win team... or not?

Follow-up question for anyone bold enough to answer it without the snark... if you replaced our very best player, Rajon Rondo, with an elite interior defender... say Marc Gasol, for instance... Does the loss of Rondo offset the addition of the elite interior defender?  Say it left our lineup as PG - Smart, SG - Bradley, SF - Green, PF - SUlly, C - Gasol... with Oly off the bench.  Still a 30 win team?   You'd be fixing the team's most glaring weakness (interior defense), but losing it's strength.  Which is... I don't know.  What is our strength?  Having a point guard who can find open men?  I'd say our guard defense is great, but it seems Smart's prescense offsets the potential loss of Rondo in that hypothetical.

Fair enough.

You certainly make a strong argument for the theory that Lebron James is more of a difference maker than Rajon Rondo.

What are the chances?

[RJ87]

More interesting question: would the Pelicans improve if they traded Anthony Davis for LeBron?

[LarBrd33]

How about if we replaced Phil Pressey with Lebron?

98?

I can see none of you are taking this question seriously, because you think my intention is to insult Rondo.  I'm not trying to insult Rondo here.  I genuinely want to have a conversation about basketball positions and the importance of consistent scoring.  This team is going to struggle this year, because night in and night out, they have nobody they can rely on for consistent buckets.  Rondo will do what he does brilliantly... find open men and rack up the assists.  When the mediocre shooters are streaking, it's going to look glorious (game 1 vs the nets and the end of the game tonight)... but when the mediocre shooters clang them, the team is going to struggle. They'll have nobody they can feed the ball to and rely on them... it's going to be a guessing game.  Dish it to Sully.. is he feeling it?  Nope.  Hmm...try Oly.  Nope.  Try Bradley.  Nope.   Try Smart.  Nope.  Throw turner in there and see how he does... Nope.  Try Sully agin.  Nope.     My question is, how much does that change when you add a guy who you can consistently rely on to get you buckets every single time he steps on the court.  I genuinely want to know if you guys think it matters... if you replaced Rondo with LeBron, do you think this continues to be a 30 win team... or not?

Follow-up question for anyone bold enough to answer it without the snark... if you replaced our very best player, Rajon Rondo, with an elite interior defender... say Marc Gasol, for instance... Does the loss of Rondo offset the addition of the elite interior defender?  Say it left our lineup as PG - Smart, SG - Bradley, SF - Green, PF - SUlly, C - Gasol... with Oly off the bench.  Still a 30 win team?   You'd be fixing the team's most glaring weakness (interior defense), but losing it's strength.  Which is... I don't know.  What is our strength?  Having a point guard who can find open men?  I'd say our guard defense is great, but it seems Smart's prescense offsets the potential loss of Rondo in that hypothetical.

The bolded is what's fundamentally wrong with your argument. Rondo was the reason we got going in this game on the offensive end (sparked by Avery and Smart's defense too).
Without Rondo we don't get all those open threes and easy buckets for Olynyk, Sully, Bradley and Green.
He didn't pound it, he didn't wait for players to come off picks. He was aggressive and attacked the paint- not necessarily looking to score, but to create spacing and get our offense going by seeing the ball go through the hoop.

Your question should be 'what would happen if we swapped Jeff Green for Lebron'.
We have the cap room to add another two stars this offseason. We may only need one, depending on how Marcus Smart turns out. Our obvious need is a rim protector with pace. I'd love Hibbert because he's quick enough to run back to control the defensive end and back up our *arguably* league leading back court defensive threesome. He's also got the hands to finish on the pick and roll and in the post with those easy looks from Rondo.

Rondo's shooting and scoring are still incredibly frustrating, particularly his jumpshots and threes, and Lebron is the best player in the world being a great passer and playmaker....

 However he doesn't have the IQ or the court vision of Rondo (who probably has the best court awareness in the league other than Chris Paul and Steve Nash in recent history- lets call it a three way tie). Removing him from a team that relies on the ball movement they have adapted recently would be a terrible decision. Rondo has missed all pre season, training camp- he's still learning to execute the plays they're running.

Long story short- if you swapped Lebron for Rondo, you'd be making a positive change, but you wouldn't be getting the boost you're imagining because losing Rondo would be also be a huge loss.
eg Lebron swapped in for Rondo this season makes us a 45 win team but it doesn't make us any kind of 55+ win threat against the West without Rondo added to that squad.

Chambers...  on the part you bolded.  Don't misinterpret me.  Rondo is great at what he does.  He'll get guys open looks.  When the team shoots 55% (nets games), we gonna win.  When the team goes 1-853 from three (Rockets game), we gonna lose.   YOu can look forward to that this year.  We lack consistent scorers.  The team is going to lose a ton of games.  That's not Rondo's fault... it's the talent he's surrounded with. 

Replacing Rondo with LeBron would be interesting.  You obviously wouldn't need a PG controlling the ball anymore.  Bron can control the ball, find open men and get you 30+ a night.  You probably wouldn't see a slip in our guard defense (Smart and Bradley would be solid).  You probably woudn't see a major slip in our guard depth (both Thornton and Turner can play).  It doesn't address our most glaring weakness (interior defense), but the positives of LeBron would probably greatly offset the loss of Rondo. 

More interesting would be replacing Rondo with an interior defender.  You still would lack consistent scoring and now you wouldn't even have a method for getting open looks.  BUt you'd no longer get destroyed inside every night.  Rondo-for-Gasol hypothetical ... probably depends on how much confidence you have in Smart and Turner.

[chambers]

Your question was strange because of your replacement choice. You don't need to ask people how many wins a Rondo for James exchange would net you, it's going to be 10-15...at least. That answer is constant for any player besides Durant. So around 45+ wins probably.

The Gasol one is more interesting. We lack interior defense so badly that switching Rondo with Gasol would improve us automatically. I'm not sure how much.

EDIT: See above.

Well so far everyone has said we'd go from 30 wins to 45-50.  I picked Rondo mainly because he's the undisputed best player on this team.  Nobody disagrees with that.   It's a bit interesting, isn't it?  That if you replaced our best player with a legitimate superstar, we all seem to agree it would go from bottom 5 lotto team to playoff lock?  That in itself is interesting to me.  The gap between borderline all-star and superstar.  But it's also just interesting to think about the importance of positions and strengths.   Rondo is arguably the best passer in the league.  He's exceptional at finding open men and getting them easy looks.   So if you were to talk about the strengths of Boston, I guess you'd say... we have a guard who is really good at finding open shooters.   But it seems while that is a great strength... it's far more important to have the strength of "reliable star with elite scoring" or "elite interior defense". 

Where does the strength of "guard who is great at finding open shooters" fit on the list of desirable NBA strengths?

Don't forget though that Rondo's strength is also in the pick and roll. A lot of fans talk about needing a rim protecting big- but having an elite big coming off the pick and roll with Rondo would be HUGE for our offense and I'd say it's the number one priority for Ainge at the moment- as long as that big can hold his own in the paint. (if Rondo stays).
He currently doesn't have one like that, and it effects his ability to score around the basket.

Replace James Harden with Lebron and do the Rockets go from being a 55 win pretender to a 65 win contender?  I'd say likely.
What about replacing Howard with Lebron on the Rockets? Harden and Lebron attacking the wings?
Harden and Howard are two top 10 NBA players and Lebron crushes their impact.


Here's a better question (at least I think it's a better question).

If this team traded Lebron for Rondo right now, and had 45 wins, how many more wins would they get with Lebron AND Rondo if Rondo came back to the C's as a free agent?
I think Rondo gives them another 10 wins at least.
It's why stars want to play with other stars- it takes much of the focus off the one player on the defensive end.

Marc Gasol on this team would be amazing. DeAndre Jordan would be good too but his pick and roll play is not on the level of Gasol's.

[Vox_Populi]

Your question was strange because of your replacement choice. You don't need to ask people how many wins a Rondo for James exchange would net you, it's going to be 10-15...at least. That answer is constant for any player besides Durant. So around 45+ wins probably.

The Gasol one is more interesting. We lack interior defense so badly that switching Rondo with Gasol would improve us automatically. I'm not sure how much.

EDIT: See above.

Well so far everyone has said we'd go from 30 wins to 45-50.  I picked Rondo mainly because he's the undisputed best player on this team.  Nobody disagrees with that.   It's a bit interesting, isn't it?  That if you replaced our best player with a legitimate superstar, we all seem to agree it would go from bottom 5 lotto team to playoff lock?  That in itself is interesting to me.  The gap between borderline all-star and superstar.  But it's also just interesting to think about the importance of positions and strengths.   Rondo is arguably the best passer in the league.  He's exceptional at finding open men and getting them easy looks.   So if you were to talk about the strengths of Boston, I guess you'd say... we have a guard who is really good at finding open shooters.   But it seems while that is a great strength... it's far more important to have the strength of "reliable star with elite scoring" or "elite interior defense". 

Where does the strength of "guard who is great at finding open shooters" fit on the list of desirable NBA strengths?

Not really, it's not that interesting. We're not just talking about any superstar i.e. Westbrook or Griffin, we're talking about a probable top 5 all time player. Like I said, the replacement choice was the issue. If you asked the same question but switched James for Harden, I doubt the needle would be moved that much.

In regards to desirable NBA strengths, that's a contextual question. Like with Gasol and this team. His elite skill is more desirable because Boston are so pathetic defensively. Harden/Curry are elite scorers and are probably better players than Gasol, but they wouldn't help us as much as he would.