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Author Topic: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".  (Read 8859 times)

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Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« on: July 08, 2014, 01:49:45 PM »

Offline staticcc

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http://grantland.com/features/nba-miami-heat-double-standard-contract-sacrifice-lebron-james-chris-bosh-houston-rockets-free-agency/

Some quotes:

Quote
"This puts star players in an impossible position: accept a pay cut “for the good of the team” or look like a glutton. When stars take pay cuts to stay together, fans rail against their collusion and call the NBA product a rigged game. When stars chase the money, fans rip them as pigs."

Quote
"The stars can’t win, in part because the NBA has created a system in which a player maximizing his individual income makes it harder for his team to build a competitive roster around him. But are people — media, fans, GMs — overstating the difficulty of that challenge? Maybe the onus should be on teams to spend wisely enough so they can accommodate multiple star players without prodding those stars to “sacrifice” in pointed public comments.

Quote
"If it’s so virtuous for a great player to give up salary, why shouldn’t an owner also be called upon to lose money if it will help his team win?"

His points reinforce why I often disagree when fans disapprove of overpaid players and call them greedy. The owners do not get enough hate for not spending wisely.
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 01:56:44 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Yeah I feel like this is well trod territory for us at this point.
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2014, 02:17:46 PM »

Offline puskas54_10

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Great observation!
Most fans are dumb as a rock when it comes to see through the NBA financial parts.
They call players greedy, talk about sacrifies for the team, then would trade them in a heartbeat for the "right price".
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2014, 02:30:45 PM »

Offline footey

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Based on the quotes you posted, have little interest in reading the article.  Nothing new or fresh. 
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2014, 02:30:53 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Both the Miami Heat's strategy and three stars themselves manufactured this problem.

First, the Miami Heat declined to build the supportive cast for this team instead opting for a 2014 free of contract obligations with the illusion of manufacturing cap space.

As for the stars, well... they were the ones that decided to opt out this year. Of course, they're angling for better contracts with longer years, but it was their choice to opt out.

And I'm not going to feel sorry for a team that just went to the finals with the best player in the league with 2 more max talent player around him.

Sorry, but I think there's a lot of "poor me" going around this situation that just reeks of self entitlement, from both the players and the organization.

Fact is, that all these players have GREAT opportunities on various teams around the league who can pay them max money. It's their decision. And that's the important part at the end right? That choices are available.
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2014, 02:34:38 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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 One interesting offshoot is I think we're starting to see star players hold their owners and GM's accountable, and there have been so many lousy ones that it's frankly about time.   Right now there's no more important hire for a team than a GM.  Hire Billy King or Dave Khan for example and you deserve all the grief their ineptitude causes.
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2014, 02:39:12 PM »

Offline yoursweatersux

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Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on July 08, 2014, 02:30:53 PM
Both the Miami Heat's strategy and three stars themselves manufactured this problem.

First, the Miami Heat declined to build the supportive cast for this team instead opting for a 2014 free of contract obligations with the illusion of manufacturing cap space.

As for the stars, well... they were the ones that decided to opt out this year. Of course, they're angling for better contracts with longer years, but it was their choice to opt out.

And I'm not going to feel sorry for a team that just went to the finals with the best player in the league with 2 more max talent player around him.

Sorry, but I think there's a lot of "poor me" going around this situation that just reeks of self entitlement, from both the players and the organization.

Fact is, that all these players have GREAT opportunities on various teams around the league who can pay them max money. It's their decision. And that's the important part at the end right? That choices are available.

Well said. I really don't understand what the author is upset about in this article. The salary cap is forcing playing to make hard choices.... aka, it's working as intended.
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2014, 02:42:07 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on July 08, 2014, 02:30:53 PM
Both the Miami Heat's strategy and three stars themselves manufactured this problem.

First, the Miami Heat declined to build the supportive cast for this team instead opting for a 2014 free of contract obligations with the illusion of manufacturing cap space.
How so? They've been a capped out team and then a taxpayer. They haven't had salary slots to sign a supporting cast they could have built.

They've also had few draft picks due to the Bosh/LBJ sign and trades.
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2014, 02:43:09 PM »

Offline Larry for 3

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Quote from: staticcc on July 08, 2014, 01:49:45 PM
http://grantland.com/features/nba-miami-heat-double-standard-contract-sacrifice-lebron-james-chris-bosh-houston-rockets-free-agency/

Some quotes:

Quote
"This puts star players in an impossible position: accept a pay cut “for the good of the team” or look like a glutton. When stars take pay cuts to stay together, fans rail against their collusion and call the NBA product a rigged game. When stars chase the money, fans rip them as pigs."

Quote
"The stars can’t win, in part because the NBA has created a system in which a player maximizing his individual income makes it harder for his team to build a competitive roster around him. But are people — media, fans, GMs — overstating the difficulty of that challenge? Maybe the onus should be on teams to spend wisely enough so they can accommodate multiple star players without prodding those stars to “sacrifice” in pointed public comments.

Quote
"If it’s so virtuous for a great player to give up salary, why shouldn’t an owner also be called upon to lose money if it will help his team win?"

His points reinforce why I often disagree when fans disapprove of overpaid players and call them greedy. The owners do not get enough hate for not spending wisely.

This is exactly why the Bradley contract made no sense. AB was an RFA, why dint Ainge just let the market play out & see if anyone offers AB 11 mil per?  If s,o have a nice career Avery, that contract could have been handed out much later in FA. And if he gets no offers you play it out & make him play for the money, epically after we just drafted Smart & Young.  Deal made zero sense to me.  Just because other morons offer Channing Frye 32 mil doesn't mean we have to, at least not now.  I'm slightly worried now, well not worried but confused.
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2014, 02:43:14 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Quote from: yoursweatersux on July 08, 2014, 02:39:12 PM
Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on July 08, 2014, 02:30:53 PM
Both the Miami Heat's strategy and three stars themselves manufactured this problem.

First, the Miami Heat declined to build the supportive cast for this team instead opting for a 2014 free of contract obligations with the illusion of manufacturing cap space.

As for the stars, well... they were the ones that decided to opt out this year. Of course, they're angling for better contracts with longer years, but it was their choice to opt out.

And I'm not going to feel sorry for a team that just went to the finals with the best player in the league with 2 more max talent player around him.

Sorry, but I think there's a lot of "poor me" going around this situation that just reeks of self entitlement, from both the players and the organization.

Fact is, that all these players have GREAT opportunities on various teams around the league who can pay them max money. It's their decision. And that's the important part at the end right? That choices are available.

Well said. I really don't understand what the author is upset about in this article. The salary cap is forcing playing to make hard choices.... aka, it's working as intended.
What do you think is the intention of the salary cap?
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2014, 02:49:48 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Quote from: Larry for 3 on July 08, 2014, 02:43:09 PM
This is exactly why the Bradley contract made no sense. AB was an RFA, why dint Ainge just let the market play out & see if anyone offers AB 11 mil per?  If s,o have a nice career Avery, that contract could have been handed out much later in FA. And if he gets no offers you play it out & make him play for the money, epically after we just drafted Smart & Young.  Deal made zero sense to me.  Just because other morons offer Channing Frye 32 mil doesn't mean we have to, at least not now.  I'm slightly worried now, well not worried but confused.
What do you think was fair value for Bradley?

If Danny thought it was 6.5 or 7 the extra dollars isn't a huge deal given what Meeks and others have gotten.

I thought Danny would let it play out as well, I think Bradley had offers from other teams and used that to leverage Danny's offer to what it ended up being and they got it done. I don't see how its crippling to us, especially given that Smart or Rondo is likely to be gone after a year.
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2014, 02:56:09 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Quote from: Fafnir on July 08, 2014, 02:43:14 PM
Quote from: yoursweatersux on July 08, 2014, 02:39:12 PM
Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on July 08, 2014, 02:30:53 PM
Both the Miami Heat's strategy and three stars themselves manufactured this problem.

First, the Miami Heat declined to build the supportive cast for this team instead opting for a 2014 free of contract obligations with the illusion of manufacturing cap space.

As for the stars, well... they were the ones that decided to opt out this year. Of course, they're angling for better contracts with longer years, but it was their choice to opt out.

And I'm not going to feel sorry for a team that just went to the finals with the best player in the league with 2 more max talent player around him.

Sorry, but I think there's a lot of "poor me" going around this situation that just reeks of self entitlement, from both the players and the organization.

Fact is, that all these players have GREAT opportunities on various teams around the league who can pay them max money. It's their decision. And that's the important part at the end right? That choices are available.

Well said. I really don't understand what the author is upset about in this article. The salary cap is forcing playing to make hard choices.... aka, it's working as intended.
What do you think is the intention of the salary cap?

To keep those dirty players away from the delicious money that's destined to go to the owners, obviously.
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2014, 03:05:01 PM »

Offline RyNye

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Quote from: yoursweatersux on July 08, 2014, 02:39:12 PM
Well said. I really don't understand what the author is upset about in this article. The salary cap is forcing playing to make hard choices.... aka, it's working as intended.

Did you even read the article? It really doesn't sound like you did, considering the entire purpose of the article was to address this point.
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2014, 03:05:39 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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Quote from: Fafnir on July 08, 2014, 02:43:14 PM
Quote from: yoursweatersux on July 08, 2014, 02:39:12 PM
Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on July 08, 2014, 02:30:53 PM
Both the Miami Heat's strategy and three stars themselves manufactured this problem.

First, the Miami Heat declined to build the supportive cast for this team instead opting for a 2014 free of contract obligations with the illusion of manufacturing cap space.

As for the stars, well... they were the ones that decided to opt out this year. Of course, they're angling for better contracts with longer years, but it was their choice to opt out.

And I'm not going to feel sorry for a team that just went to the finals with the best player in the league with 2 more max talent player around him.

Sorry, but I think there's a lot of "poor me" going around this situation that just reeks of self entitlement, from both the players and the organization.

Fact is, that all these players have GREAT opportunities on various teams around the league who can pay them max money. It's their decision. And that's the important part at the end right? That choices are available.

Well said. I really don't understand what the author is upset about in this article. The salary cap is forcing playing to make hard choices.... aka, it's working as intended.
What do you think is the intention of the salary cap?
Well the intention is to create parity in the league right? But in the end, there is not enough elite talent to go around, meaning guys get overpaid.

I havent really explored it too much, but i find it fascinating that the NHL, with a hard cap seems to have the most parity. The Bruins are being penalized right now for developing a core, and paying them all early in their careers. They literally cannot add talent to that core now.

So which model is better? I realize im having trouble making a point here :).

I just cant figure out if the nbas complicated soft cap structure is the best way to disperse and showcase the best basketball players in the world.
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Re: Great article by Zach Lowe discussing the double standard of "sacrifice".
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2014, 03:05:56 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Quote from: Fafnir on July 08, 2014, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on July 08, 2014, 02:30:53 PM
Both the Miami Heat's strategy and three stars themselves manufactured this problem.

First, the Miami Heat declined to build the supportive cast for this team instead opting for a 2014 free of contract obligations with the illusion of manufacturing cap space.
How so? They've been a capped out team and then a taxpayer. They haven't had salary slots to sign a supporting cast they could have built.

They've also had few draft picks due to the Bosh/LBJ sign and trades.

I don't buy that as the sole-reason they couldn't put something more worthwhile together. It's no coincidence that all the roster contracts on that team had been concocted to not go beyond the year in which the player options for the big 3 were set to go into effect.

Manufacturing enough space, at least last year, to have enough to offer a full mid-level to someone worthwhile shouldn't have been that hard to accomplish.

But you had a lot of money tied up on players like Battier, Haslem, Chalmers, and Ray Allen. Three of them old, but in expiring deals. This shouldn't have been hard to move, particularly during the off-season after a Championship year.

But they kept the aging core, in part because it fit the Heat's interest for the short deal.

I don't buy the idea that they couldn't have done  a better job managing opportunities.
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