This is the reason why i don't want Love as a Celtic

[LooseCannon]

The Celtics right now are like the Wolves of the east. So Kevin Love coming from one not so good team to another is not going to make a real difference in the long run.

The Celtics have more talent than the non-Love Timberwolves and even if they had to give up either Sullinger or Olynyk in a trade, I would expect the Celtics with Love to have at least the same record next season than the Timberwolves did this season.  Adding Asik and using the MLE wisely would only improve the team on top of that.

[Tr1boy]

Would you prefer Aldridge if he was available? I want love like all the others but I'm more for pursuing Aldridge but I'm guessing that's to late cause love wouldn't be here for nothing.

yes x 100. They get paid about the same and Aldridge is a complete player.

And you know what, why not call the Blazers gm and offer the 6th, Sully , a future 1st etc.  and see what happens.  Aldridge has not made noise he wants out but he is going to be a FA after next season.   

[bucknersrevenge]

hmm? watching that video love picked up what looked to be thadeus young, rashard lewis & Sheldon Williams. 2 of those guys are small forwards playing power forward and Sheldon Williams hit a BS shot.

What about that slow azz turnaround jumper by Tyler Hansborough on Love. Tyler no skills Hansborough

like I said earlier:

he could be taking the "I have to stay on the floor for this team to have a chance" approach.

Who says he has to foul?  Just play solid D , stay with your man and put up your arms. Wave your arms. Do something

You have no stats or anything to back up your claim other than some shady youtube clips which, as others have said, you can put together for any NBA player and show whatever you like. We get it, you hate Love, but you have made no legit argument against us trading for him.

nice lawyer style defense.    I've seen enough games he has played.  The clips are the highlights or more like the norm of how he plays defense. 

If he scores 25 , against above avg PF's he is going to give up about the same amount of points. In addition provide little to no weakside defensive help.

People excuse Love and say he hasn't made the playoffs bc his team stinks. Well maybe the key reason they do is bc of him.  If he took less money to get more help, the team would be better.  Instead he wants to get paid like a top dog, play defense like a puppy and complains that he hasn't made the playoffs.  When he gets traded he will be doing the Wolves a favor imo.  I just don't want the Celtics to be on the wrong side of this transaction

You just are throwing out your thoughts with zero support in fact..check out win shares...check out his teams starting five rating verse opponents...check out the western conference...check out what place they would have come in if they played in the East.  Your just spewing nonsense at this point.

your spewing out the nonsense imo.  Who cares if he plays in the East?? So basically with Love we can get a free pass and make the playoffs a little easier. Does this make a difference in us having a chance to actually win it all??

In the end you can't cheat your way to win a ring.  Even the cHEATERs play excellent defense to get the job done. Kevin Love imo has no clue what it takes to be a top overall player in this league.

If we were talking about giving  up the 6th plus Sully etc for Aldridge, i would be all in for that. He is a complete player that deserves the pay he is receiving.   There is no point on settling on guys like Love, Melo instead

I think it does actually. No team has really been able to put up a good challenge to Miami since Boston. Indy couldn't out-talent them(because they didn't have enough), couldn't out-execute them(because they didn't have playmakers that could execute consistently in the halfcourt when it mattered) but if we add Love to Rondo and Green and a defensive center, I think they could realistically challenge them. So long as you have Rondo, you have an experienced PG that can execute a possession in crunchtime. And if you get Rondo some weapons he can do what he does best. And you know he's not scared of Miami. If Danny starts with the Love trade and then makes a few shrewd moves after that(many that have been discussed around here already), it would not be that farfetched to leapfrog a lot of teams in the East to become a legit challenger in the Eastern Conference.

[blink]

Yea, I'm not too enthused about the D either but the ONLY reason I don't want him is the price. I can live with his defense if he at least tries harder, I suspect he might on a better team, especially when everyone else around him is going to put effort in down there. As long as everyone else is a very good/great defender then he will be fine.

100 TPs if I could give them.  Anyone, I mean anyone can manipulate highlights / lowlights to make their point.  I have watched quite a bit of Twolves games, and although I don't think he is a great defender, I think this idea that Love is a defensive non-entity has gotten way out of hand.

Like shak, I am way more worried about DA overpaying to get Love.  At first I didn't think it was good idea for the C's, but after listening to all the back and forth on here, I think you have to get a top 10 player if you can do it.  I just hope we have some of our war chest of draft picks left when we are done to fill out the roster.

[Vox_Populi]

82games.com says Love's PER compared to opposing PFs was 26.1 to 14.2.  His PER comparison when playing at center was 35 to 17.7.

Mike

can you provide PER compared to decent opposing PF's and not scrubs/rookies?

It's an average. So it's not just PERs of "scrubs/rookies".

[Mikedmx6]

Rondo has proven time and time again he is a thorn in the backside of the heat so yes rondo green love would prob contend with Miami especially as they all get older BUT, you need green to come out of his shell.  I still stand firm to believe ainge is going to pull off love trade and get melo here as well.  Ainge isn't making just one move if the love trade happens.

[MBunge]

hmm? watching that video love picked up what looked to be thadeus young, rashard lewis & Sheldon Williams. 2 of those guys are small forwards playing power forward and Sheldon Williams hit a BS shot.

What about that slow azz turnaround jumper by Tyler Hansborough on Love. Tyler no skills Hansborough

like I said earlier:

he could be taking the "I have to stay on the floor for this team to have a chance" approach.

Who says he has to foul?  Just play solid D , stay with your man and put up your arms. Wave your arms. Do something

You have no stats or anything to back up your claim other than some shady youtube clips which, as others have said, you can put together for any NBA player and show whatever you like. We get it, you hate Love, but you have made no legit argument against us trading for him.

nice lawyer style defense.    I've seen enough games he has played.  The clips are the highlights or more like the norm of how he plays defense. 

If he scores 25 , against above avg PF's he is going to give up about the same amount of points.

82games.com says Love's PER compared to opposing PFs was 26.1 to 14.2.  His PER comparison when playing at center was 35 to 17.7.

Mike

can you provide PER compared to decent opposing PF's and not scrubs/rookies?

I suspect you won't accept any comparison that makes Love look good, but try this one.

82games.com says LaMarcus Aldridge's PER comparison to other PFs is 22.1 to 14.7, worse than Love on both counts.  Aldridge's PER comparison at center is 24.4 to 14.4, so he's better defensively but Love still has a bigger PER gap at the position.

Mike

[Yoki_IsTheName]

David Lee is as horrible, if not, worse than Kevin Love defensively and yet the Warriors we're 3rd in Defensive Efficiency.

My point, with proper schemes, add along good perimeter defenders who can stop penetration (Green and Rondo if he's engaged) and a Center who protects the paint, one can be a really good defensive team despite having some bad defenders on their squad.

We provide Kevin Love that, add to it his 26 points and 12 rebounds per game, we'll be in solid contention. Would be great if Love plays better defense, but his production far outweighs his defense, or lack of it. It's a matter of building a scheme and a team capable of running such schemes around him to help him hide those deficiencies.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

This is one of many reasons why I want him as a Celtic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO6EbYAwKjQ

He actually plays defense on some of the shots he's contesting...

Can anyone here imagine James Worthy - I mean - Jeff Green as the recipient of these outlet passes from KLove?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J86e_7uUusM

Look, KLove won't ever be KG on defense, but he's not swiss cheese, either

This means we need to trade for Corey Brewer too. 

[vjcsmoke]

I'd rather have Love than giving up 1st round picks and assets for the corpses of Pau Gasol and Steve Nash.  Which was a trade you proposed not so long ago.

defense, defense, horrible defense.  If you think KO is a bad defender, think again. Get ready to cringe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NwjMP7ydU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYJZDAXZSuA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqmt6f2PYzQ

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Would you prefer Aldridge if he was available? I want love like all the others but I'm more for pursuing Aldridge but I'm guessing that's to late cause love wouldn't be here for nothing.

yes x 100. They get paid about the same and Aldridge is a complete player.

And you know what, why not call the Blazers gm and offer the 6th, Sully , a future 1st etc.  and see what happens.  Aldridge has not made noise he wants out but he is going to be a FA after next season.   

Aldridge wont be available, also, here's why we should prefer Love over him.


a.) Try to imagine what would happen if Aldridge and Love switch teams. Love will have Lillard as his 2nd scorer, Matthews, Batum and Robin Lopez helping him defensively. Do you think they wont make the Playoffs?

b.) I'm still working my advanced metrics knowledge, but I think basic ESPN stats can tell a story.

Let's head to head the stats from last season, Love - Aldridge.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2983/lamarcus-aldridge
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3449/kevin-love

The only thing LMA was better at from those stats are blocks, by half a point, and TO's. Love scores more but shoots less, grabs a couple more rebounds, better 3pt shooter, better assists getter (wont say better passer, im not sure about that, but he gets assists)

c) Aldridge is also closing in on 30, while Kevin Love is 25. Love has room to improve and you'll have a longer window, can't say that with LMA.

The hate with Love because of his defensive deficiencies, I get. But it can be solved, he can be masked. To deny that Love is not a max player though, that's what I think is ridiculous.

[crimson_stallion]

What Kevin Love does on offense far exceeds what his defensive issues.

OK, so considering Love is widely regarded as one of the worst defensive starting big men in the entire NBA, for this to be true he would have to be absolutely elite offensively.

Lets check his career stats:

Career FG Percentage (overall): 45%
Career FG Percentage (2PT shots): 48%
Career FG Percentage (3PT shots): 36%
Career FG Percentage (0-3 feet): 59%
Career FG Percentage (3-10 feet): 39%
Career FG Percentage (10-16 feet): 33%
Career FG Percentage (16 feet to 3 point): 39%
Career FT Percentage: 81%

Ok, so which of those stats would be considered elite, or even significantly above average fr a big man in the NBA?

For comparison purposes lets compare them to Kelly Olynyk's rookie year:

FG Percentage (overall): 47%
FG Percentage (2PT shots): 50%
FG Percentage (3PT shots): 35%
FG Percentage (0-3 feet): 65%
FG Percentage (3-10 feet): 30%
FG Percentage (10-16 feet): 36%
FG Percentage (16 feet to 3 point):  35%
FT Percentage: 81%

So Kevin Love has been a much better shooter from 3-10 feet, and a slightly better shooter from 10-16 feet.  Everywhere else he's been the same or worse.

Kevin Love is supposedly a superstart scoring messiah, while Olynyk is a rookie who didn't even make the All-Rookie first team.

So why does Love score so much more than Olynyk then?  Per 36 Minutes Love has averaged 21 PP36 over his career, while Olynyk averaged only 16 PP36 his rookie year.  The answer is shot attempts. 

Over his career Love has averaged (per 36 minutes):
* 7.1 free throw attempts
* 14.1 field goal attempts
* 3.3 three point attempts

In his rookie year Olynyk averaged (per 36 minutes):
* 3.1 free throw attempts
* 12.9 Field goal attempts
* 2.9 three point attempts

If you look at Loves most recent season (where his scoring jumped so dramatically to 26 PPG) you will see those numbers jumped even more per 36:

* 18.5 field goal attempts
* 6.6 three point attempts
* 8.2 free throw attempts

The whole idea that Love is an elite scorer should be taken with a grain of salt given how high his usage rate is.  Yes he is a better offensive player then somebody like Olynyk (his increase in FT attempts is a big benefit) but 'elite'?  Not so much.  The vast majority of his extra points come from the fact that he simply takes a LOT of shots. 

To put things in to perspective, Carmello Anthony (who is viewed by most on here as a thoughtless chucker) attempted 19.5 field goal attempts per 36 minutes last season - only one more than Love. 

Yes people, Love scores a lot of points because he's a chucker, not because he's just that amazingly gifted.  If Olynyk was taking 18 field goal attempts, he'd probably be scoring >22 a game. 

Look at the stats, ignore the hype.

the Celtics can provide a defensive center to hide him.

Really? 

What defensive center do we currently posess on our roster, and what starting calibre defensive centers are appearing in this year's free agency that we have the cap space to sign?

If I recall correctly 'rim protection' was listed by Danny Ainge as one of Boston's most desperate needs, and that's because we don't have anybody who even resembles a defensive big man.

If (and when) we get a defensive big man on this team (who is NOT a major offensive liability - i.e. Asik) then I will warm to the idea of bringing in Kevin Love.

Until then, no thanks.

If we can bring in Josh Smith for the cost of a future first roud pick and start him at center alongside Love then maybe that could work.  No idea if Smith could even handle the center spot due to his lack of size, but he has the shotblocking ability and quickness to cover for Love's misses on defense, so in today's undersized NBA it might be worth a gamble.  Plus Smith is most effective when he's kept away from the perimiter and kept in the paint (he's a decent post scorer and shot a very impressive 69% from 0-3 feet) so putting him at Center (much like Pierce played PF for brooklyn) actually might work.

Otherwise I'm just skeptical that Boston will be able to get Love AND still have enough assets left to bring in a decent rim protector...and having Love alongside Sully/Bass/Olynyk is a disaster.

[Future Celtics Owner]

ok his defense is not so good, it can get better though. And that would be a reason why we do not give up the farm for him I hope. Put Larry Sanders next to him and its done baby.

[BballTim]

What Kevin Love does on offense far exceeds what his defensive issues.

OK, so considering Love is widely regarded as one of the worst defensive starting big men in the entire NBA, for this to be true he would have to be absolutely elite offensively.

Lets check his career stats:

Career FG Percentage (overall): 45%
Career FG Percentage (2PT shots): 48%
Career FG Percentage (3PT shots): 36%
Career FG Percentage (0-3 feet): 59%
Career FG Percentage (3-10 feet): 39%
Career FG Percentage (10-16 feet): 33%
Career FG Percentage (16 feet to 3 point): 39%
Career FT Percentage: 81%

Ok, so which of those stats would be considered elite, or even significantly above average fr a big man in the NBA?

For comparison purposes lets compare them to Kelly Olynyk's rookie year:

FG Percentage (overall): 47%
FG Percentage (2PT shots): 50%
FG Percentage (3PT shots): 35%
FG Percentage (0-3 feet): 65%
FG Percentage (3-10 feet): 30%
FG Percentage (10-16 feet): 36%
FG Percentage (16 feet to 3 point):  35%
FT Percentage: 81%

So Kevin Love has been a much better shooter from 3-10 feet, and a slightly better shooter from 10-16 feet.  Everywhere else he's been the same or worse.

Kevin Love is supposedly a superstart scoring messiah, while Olynyk is a rookie who didn't even make the All-Rookie first team.

So why does Love score so much more than Olynyk then?  Per 36 Minutes Love has averaged 21 PP36 over his career, while Olynyk averaged only 16 PP36 his rookie year.  The answer is shot attempts. 

Over his career Love has averaged (per 36 minutes):
* 7.1 free throw attempts
* 14.1 field goal attempts
* 3.3 three point attempts

In his rookie year Olynyk averaged (per 36 minutes):
* 3.1 free throw attempts
* 12.9 Field goal attempts
* 2.9 three point attempts

If you look at Loves most recent season (where his scoring jumped so dramatically to 26 PPG) you will see those numbers jumped even more per 36:

* 18.5 field goal attempts
* 6.6 three point attempts
* 8.2 free throw attempts

The whole idea that Love is an elite scorer should be taken with a grain of salt given how high his usage rate is.  Yes he is a better offensive player then somebody like Olynyk (his increase in FT attempts is a big benefit) but 'elite'?  Not so much.  The vast majority of his extra points come from the fact that he simply takes a LOT of shots. 

To put things in to perspective, Carmello Anthony (who is viewed by most on here as a thoughtless chucker) attempted 19.5 field goal attempts per 36 minutes last season - only one more than Love. 

Yes people, Love scores a lot of points because he's a chucker, not because he's just that amazingly gifted.  If Olynyk was taking 18 field goal attempts, he'd probably be scoring >22 a game. 

Look at the stats, ignore the hype.

  KO had a TS% of .506 last year, Love's was .591. If you can't figure that out from the stats you're providing then you probably need to add some more info so your comparison's a little more realistic.

[BballTim]

the Celtics can provide a defensive center to hide him.

Really? 

What defensive center do we currently posess on our roster, and what starting calibre defensive centers are appearing in this year's free agency that we have the cap space to sign?

If I recall correctly 'rim protection' was listed by Danny Ainge as one of Boston's most desperate needs, and that's because we don't have anybody who even resembles a defensive big man.

If (and when) we get a defensive big man on this team (who is NOT a major offensive liability - i.e. Asik) then I will warm to the idea of bringing in Kevin Love.

Until then, no thanks.

  IMO that's a fairly foolish way to look at things. If you bring in Love you can always add a center later. If you wait until you add a center to go after Love he might not still be available. You don't hold off on bringing in star players because you haven't acquired all of your role players yet.