Greg Oden: I'm one of the biggest busts in NBA history (Grantland article)

[pokeKingCurtis]

I don't know Who, Aldridge has developed into such a prime midrange shooter , Oden was so raw offensively, Brandon Roy such an unstoppable force. There was so much potential for growth there, good leadership, top tier potential..well not LeBron top tier but the next rung down.

It wasn't the lack of a jump-shot. Aldridge has a very good jump shot and did back then too.

No, it was the limited opportunities for L.Aldridge to do anything other than shoot spot up jump shots. His role was greatly reduced. And it was only going to be reduced further in future seasons as Greg Oden developed his low post game.

The two players had bad chemistry together. Short of Oden developing a high post game (which looked incredibly doubtful), I don't think they would have lasted together. I don't think Aldridge would have fulfilled his potential. I think he'd have had to move to become the player he has become now + I think Portland would need to trade him to find a third option who fit better alongside B.Roy and G.Oden.

They didn't get enough time to try to coexist.  This is all based on a half season.  I think they would have been fine.

Twin towers part deux.

[Who]

I don't know Who, Aldridge has developed into such a prime midrange shooter , Oden was so raw offensively, Brandon Roy such an unstoppable force. There was so much potential for growth there, good leadership, top tier potential..well not LeBron top tier but the next rung down.

It wasn't the lack of a jump-shot. Aldridge has a very good jump shot and did back then too.

No, it was the limited opportunities for L.Aldridge to do anything other than shoot spot up jump shots. His role was greatly reduced. And it was only going to be reduced further in future seasons as Greg Oden developed his low post game.

The two players had bad chemistry together. Short of Oden developing a high post game (which looked incredibly doubtful), I don't think they would have lasted together. I don't think Aldridge would have fulfilled his potential. I think he'd have had to move to become the player he has become now + I think Portland would need to trade him to find a third option who fit better alongside B.Roy and G.Oden.

They didn't get enough time to try to coexist.  This is all based on a half season.  I think they would have been fine.

Twin towers part deux.

Successful twin tower combinations are combos where both bigs have been able to go high-low.

Aldridge can go high-low. Greg Oden couldn't. He had only a low post game. So Oden forced Aldridge to go high and abandon (for the most part) his low post game.

Look at David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Both where low post scorers. Both could move up to the elbows and high post and make jump shots. Both players were effective passers from both spots. Same with Olajuwon and Sampson + McHale and Parish.

It's the same reason why Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol struggled together. Dwight needed to be in the paint all the time (because he couldn't make a shot outside of 5 feet) which forced Pau Gasol to spend almost all of his time 16-20 feet away from the basket. Dwight's offensive game was just too limited to take advantage of Gasol's fantastic offensive skill-set. Ditto with G.Oden and L.Aldridge. Oden was just too limited to make the combination work offensively.

[Celtics4ever]

His demise has less to due with his lack of game folks than general poor health.  He could have had a great high post game ( he didn't) but would have it have mattered for Mr. Glass?

[GreenWarrior]

I hope this guy gets a chance to play a full season and be major contributor to a team....not Miami.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I don't know Who, Aldridge has developed into such a prime midrange shooter , Oden was so raw offensively, Brandon Roy such an unstoppable force. There was so much potential for growth there, good leadership, top tier potential..well not LeBron top tier but the next rung down.

It wasn't the lack of a jump-shot. Aldridge has a very good jump shot and did back then too.

No, it was the limited opportunities for L.Aldridge to do anything other than shoot spot up jump shots. His role was greatly reduced. And it was only going to be reduced further in future seasons as Greg Oden developed his low post game.

The two players had bad chemistry together. Short of Oden developing a high post game (which looked incredibly doubtful), I don't think they would have lasted together. I don't think Aldridge would have fulfilled his potential. I think he'd have had to move to become the player he has become now + I think Portland would need to trade him to find a third option who fit better alongside B.Roy and G.Oden.

They didn't get enough time to try to coexist.  This is all based on a half season.  I think they would have been fine.

Twin towers part deux.

Successful twin tower combinations are combos where both bigs have been able to go high-low.

Aldridge can go high-low. Greg Oden couldn't. He had only a low post game. So Oden forced Aldridge to go high and abandon (for the most part) his low post game.

Look at David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Both where low post scorers. Both could move up to the elbows and high post and make jump shots. Both players were effective passers from both spots. Same with Olajuwon and Sampson + McHale and Parish.

It's the same reason why Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol struggled together. Dwight needed to be in the paint all the time (because he couldn't make a shot outside of 5 feet) which forced Pau Gasol to spend almost all of his time 16-20 feet away from the basket. Dwight's offensive game was just too limited to take advantage of Gasol's fantastic offensive skill-set. Ditto with G.Oden and L.Aldridge. Oden was just too limited to make the combination work offensively.

So would you say the Larry Sanders/John Henson pair and the Derrick Favors/Enes Kanter pairs in Milwaukee and Utah respectively won't work out?

[Who]

I don't know Who, Aldridge has developed into such a prime midrange shooter , Oden was so raw offensively, Brandon Roy such an unstoppable force. There was so much potential for growth there, good leadership, top tier potential..well not LeBron top tier but the next rung down.

It wasn't the lack of a jump-shot. Aldridge has a very good jump shot and did back then too.

No, it was the limited opportunities for L.Aldridge to do anything other than shoot spot up jump shots. His role was greatly reduced. And it was only going to be reduced further in future seasons as Greg Oden developed his low post game.

The two players had bad chemistry together. Short of Oden developing a high post game (which looked incredibly doubtful), I don't think they would have lasted together. I don't think Aldridge would have fulfilled his potential. I think he'd have had to move to become the player he has become now + I think Portland would need to trade him to find a third option who fit better alongside B.Roy and G.Oden.

They didn't get enough time to try to coexist.  This is all based on a half season.  I think they would have been fine.

Twin towers part deux.

Successful twin tower combinations are combos where both bigs have been able to go high-low.

Aldridge can go high-low. Greg Oden couldn't. He had only a low post game. So Oden forced Aldridge to go high and abandon (for the most part) his low post game.

Look at David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Both where low post scorers. Both could move up to the elbows and high post and make jump shots. Both players were effective passers from both spots. Same with Olajuwon and Sampson + McHale and Parish.

It's the same reason why Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol struggled together. Dwight needed to be in the paint all the time (because he couldn't make a shot outside of 5 feet) which forced Pau Gasol to spend almost all of his time 16-20 feet away from the basket. Dwight's offensive game was just too limited to take advantage of Gasol's fantastic offensive skill-set. Ditto with G.Oden and L.Aldridge. Oden was just too limited to make the combination work offensively.

So would you say the Larry Sanders/John Henson pair and the Derrick Favors/Enes Kanter pairs in Milwaukee and Utah respectively won't work out?

Yeah, it's not looking good for either of those pairs.

Utah had to abandon their Favors/Kanter starting pair earlier this season because Favors wasn't skilled enough to play PF alongside a true center. Kanter has shown good development in his midrange jump-shot and long two point jump-shot over the past two years so I think Utah can be optimistic about him having a useful jump-shot long term. Favors continues to stagnate though. That is a major problem. Right now, Favors is one of the most unskilled PFs in the league (and thus why he ended up playing a lot of C minutes last season). Favors is the problem in that equation.

Henson I am not optimistic of in general. Bad things happen for his team when he steps onto the court far more often than good things happen. Needs to improve skill-level offensively. His inability to make jump-shots is a huge negative for playing alongside someone like Larry Sanders (a limited offensive player himself). Needs to bulk up physically to compete defensively too. Henson gets pushed around too easily by quality starting big men. I think John Henson is one of those "empty stat" players (at least at this point in his career). Good individual box score numbers but his teams usually suffers when he is on the floor. Occasional flashes of quality in between lots of bad play. Henson has a lot of growth to do on both ends of the court to be an effective partner for Larry Sanders.

[Celtics18]

But it's not like Lamarcus Aldridge has much of a low post game even now.  He's primarily a perimeter big a la Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Garnett.  I think he could have learned to co-exist fine with Oden had the latter been able to stay healthy and live up to his potential.

[Moranis]

The 08-09 Blazers were a glimpse of what they might have been.  Finished 54-28 with 23 year old Aldridge playing 81 games, 24 year old Roy playing 78 games, 21 year old Oden playing 61 games (starting 39), and 20 year old Batum playing 79 games.  The rotation including 24 year old Outlaw, 29 year old Pyrzbilla, 28 year old Blake, 23 year old Fernandez, 22 year old Rodriguez, 25 year old Frye, and 20 year Bayless.  Now I'm sure they never would have been able to keep all of them, but they certainly were on the verge of something special.  The following year they brought in some more veterans and were still a 50 win team (though Oden only played 21 games). 

[Who]

But it's not like Lamarcus Aldridge has much of a low post game even now.  He's primarily a perimeter big a la Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Garnett.  I think he could have learned to co-exist fine with Oden had the latter been able to stay healthy and live up to his potential.

Aldridge had 752 post ups this season. That is almost 10 post ups a game. That is roughly as many as Dwight Howard (785). Aldridge is also the league leader in long two point jump-shots taking 646 shots outside of 16 feet. Aldridge also took a lot of shots in between areas.

Aldridge is not just one thing or the other thing. He is an extremely well rounded scoring big man. Taking away or severely limiting a major area of his game would have a massive effect
on his overall effectiveness.

And that is what happened when Aldridge played alongside Greg Oden (and Brandon Roy). He was the third option. Had very few plays run for him. Roy had the ball in his hands most of the time. Oden had to stay around the rim because he offered little value elsewhere. All of which forced Aldridge to spend the vast majority of his time as a stagnant figure 18-22 feet away facilitating the offense for the other two.

Very similar to how Pau Gasol played for the Lakers with Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant. Often turned into a peripheral figure on LA's offense as Aldridge was in Portland's (when alongside G.Oden and B.Roy). The guy who had to sacrifice his game to allow others to play to their maximum. Not able to show full extent of skills.

[Who]

Some quotes from Aldridge

He was close to Roy, and liked Oden in the limited time he was around the team. There was a time when he said he openly wondered how many titles the three could win together. But at the same, he struggled to find his place when they were all healthy. He felt like he could never maximize his potential.

"I was the last of the Big Three," Aldridge said, referring to his importance.

Actually, Aldridge said, he was really the fourth option once Andre Miller came to the team in 2009. He remembers it being Roy's team, and he said McMillan also stressed the need for Oden to be dominant. And Miller controlled the ball at the point.

He felt left out, and unsure how to assert himself. He remembers fans chastising him about the big contract he signed, saying the team should trade him. It was one of the lowest points in his career.

"I even remember Coach telling me that the team is really good, but you are the glue," Aldridge said, referring to a term for a role player who does the little things to keep the team together. "And I was like, 'Aw man, I'm the glue?' I mean, that's not a bad role, but I saw myself being so much more."

He saw himself being what he is today: an All-Star.

But back then, he figured when he became an All-Star, it wouldn't be in Portland.

Aldridge was emphatic that he wouldn't be an All-Star today had Roy's knees held up and Oden remained healthy.

"No. No. No. I wouldn't," Aldridge said. "I mean, I would go as far to ask would I even still be here?"

Had the Big Three of Roy, Oden and Aldridge stayed intact, Aldridge said he would never have developed his low-post game, because that's where Oden stationed himself. He said he would have kept being a pick-and-pop player alongside Roy, taking jump shots and seldom going inside.

"And everyone would still be saying I was soft," Aldridge said.

And if the Big Three remained intact, Aldridge figures there wouldn't have been enough money to go around. Roy was given a maximum contract, Oden probably would have commanded a big contract, and Aldridge figures he would have been the odd man out.

"I probably would have ended up signing somewhere else," Aldridge said. "Think about it. I was the last option out of those guys, so they both would have gotten max deals, and they wouldn't have given me my deal (five years, $62.5 million). They only signed me because I was the only low post threat left on the team. If they had Greg, they don't give me the number I wanted, and I'm somewhere else. I think about it all the time. I wouldn't even be here had Greg not gotten hurt."

Link

[indeedproceed]

Well that's about as much of a mic-drop as Who's capable of giving. That ought to close the matter.

[Celtics18]

And, there ya have it. 

[LilRip]

TP to Who for those fantastic quotes.

[Rondo9]

I don't know Who, Aldridge has developed into such a prime midrange shooter , Oden was so raw offensively, Brandon Roy such an unstoppable force. There was so much potential for growth there, good leadership, top tier potential..well not LeBron top tier but the next rung down.

It wasn't the lack of a jump-shot. Aldridge has a very good jump shot and did back then too.

No, it was the limited opportunities for L.Aldridge to do anything other than shoot spot up jump shots. His role was greatly reduced. And it was only going to be reduced further in future seasons as Greg Oden developed his low post game.

The two players had bad chemistry together. Short of Oden developing a high post game (which looked incredibly doubtful), I don't think they would have lasted together. I don't think Aldridge would have fulfilled his potential. I think he'd have had to move to become the player he has become now + I think Portland would need to trade him to find a third option who fit better alongside B.Roy and G.Oden.

They didn't get enough time to try to coexist.  This is all based on a half season.  I think they would have been fine.

Twin towers part deux.

Successful twin tower combinations are combos where both bigs have been able to go high-low.

Aldridge can go high-low. Greg Oden couldn't. He had only a low post game. So Oden forced Aldridge to go high and abandon (for the most part) his low post game.

Look at David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Both where low post scorers. Both could move up to the elbows and high post and make jump shots. Both players were effective passers from both spots. Same with Olajuwon and Sampson + McHale and Parish.

It's the same reason why Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol struggled together. Dwight needed to be in the paint all the time (because he couldn't make a shot outside of 5 feet) which forced Pau Gasol to spend almost all of his time 16-20 feet away from the basket. Dwight's offensive game was just too limited to take advantage of Gasol's fantastic offensive skill-set.

Then how come Andrew Bynum was able to work well with Gasol? He had the same skillset as Howard?

[Who]

I don't know Who, Aldridge has developed into such a prime midrange shooter , Oden was so raw offensively, Brandon Roy such an unstoppable force. There was so much potential for growth there, good leadership, top tier potential..well not LeBron top tier but the next rung down.

It wasn't the lack of a jump-shot. Aldridge has a very good jump shot and did back then too.

No, it was the limited opportunities for L.Aldridge to do anything other than shoot spot up jump shots. His role was greatly reduced. And it was only going to be reduced further in future seasons as Greg Oden developed his low post game.

The two players had bad chemistry together. Short of Oden developing a high post game (which looked incredibly doubtful), I don't think they would have lasted together. I don't think Aldridge would have fulfilled his potential. I think he'd have had to move to become the player he has become now + I think Portland would need to trade him to find a third option who fit better alongside B.Roy and G.Oden.

They didn't get enough time to try to coexist.  This is all based on a half season.  I think they would have been fine.

Twin towers part deux.

Successful twin tower combinations are combos where both bigs have been able to go high-low.

Aldridge can go high-low. Greg Oden couldn't. He had only a low post game. So Oden forced Aldridge to go high and abandon (for the most part) his low post game.

Look at David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Both where low post scorers. Both could move up to the elbows and high post and make jump shots. Both players were effective passers from both spots. Same with Olajuwon and Sampson + McHale and Parish.

It's the same reason why Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol struggled together. Dwight needed to be in the paint all the time (because he couldn't make a shot outside of 5 feet) which forced Pau Gasol to spend almost all of his time 16-20 feet away from the basket. Dwight's offensive game was just too limited to take advantage of Gasol's fantastic offensive skill-set.

Then how come Andrew Bynum was able to work well with Gasol? He had the same skillset as Howard?

Sort of. I mean, they had some success together but they rarely flourished at the same time. So yes and no -- they worked well together up to a point but were unable to get past that point.

It was normally only one player who played well and one who took a back seat.

During the Lakers title winning years, it was Pau who shined and Bynum who was largely a role player (especially in playoffs). And as Bynum's role grew over time, the harder it became for the Lakers to maintain their balance + for Pau to maintain his own high individual performances. 

The Lakers were generally at their best when Pau Gasol played alongside Lamar Odom rather than Andrew Bynum. The Lakers needed Bynum's defense to give them proper balance (why he started) but the Lakers finished games with Pau + Lamar ... and in the playoffs especially, LAL relied heavily on Odom + Pau over Bynum.

When the Lakers won the Championship in 2009 and 2010, Phil Jackson ran the offense through Kobe Bryant (1) and Pau Gasol in the post (2) and generally treated Andrew Bynum as a 4th option (often failing to capitalize fully on Bynum's post game). In the playoffs, Andrew Bynum's role was fairly small. Bynum only played 17mpg and 24mpg and only scored 6ppg and 8ppg respectively. Bynum's role -- both in terms of minutes played and size of role offensively -- was much smaller in those years and was especially small in the playoffs. Which allowed Pau Gasol to get some time alongside Bynum (to get defensive balance needed) but also plenty of playing time away from A.Bynum and alongside L.Odom instead where Pau and LAL's offense flourished.

It's also one of the main reasons why G.Oden + L.Aldridge's problems together didn't get much attention. Because Oden played so few minutes (22mpg and 24mpg) due to injuries. So Aldridge, like Pau Gasol in those earlier years, got plenty of playing time away from Oden which helped hide the pair's issues offensively.

It wasn't until 2011 that Bynum finally averaged 30+ minutes (32mpg) in the playoffs for the Lakers. It was also the first time he scored more than 10ppg in the playoffs scoring 14.4ppg. It was also Pau Gasol's worst playoff showing in a Lakers jersey as he scored only 13.1ppg and followed that up with 12.5ppg the next year ... as the Lakers would be knocked out by the 2011 Dallas Mavericks and 2012 OKC Thunder. In both years, LA were unable to establish their big men well enough + unable to get both playing at a high level at the same time. Largely due to spacing problems and lack of ball/player movement (unlike in past seasons where L.Odom gave them those qualities).

Just look at their history, each one's success offensively generally came at the cost of the other one. So yeah, they had some success together but the Lakers never really got them both clicking and playing at peak level together. There were substantial diminished returns there.