Kevin Durant: whats his ceiling?

[Snakehead]

I didn't mean it as a negative - I was just pointing out that the bulk of his offense came from that for a chunk of his early career. Lebron going to the rim is a force, but a Lebron that's just as dangerous from the outside as he is going to the rim is unguardable. The first time Lebron went to the finals, the Spurs basically dared him to shoot and they walked away with a sweep. And is postgame has taken itself to another level as well since he got to Miami - he was still incredibly raw in the post before his arrival there.

I wasn't trying to undermine any of Lebron's offensive ability, just trying to point out that it took him time to get it to the level it is now, I think Durant can have that sort of progression on the defensive end.

You're right about how the Spurs beat him (though I think at this point the way he killed the Pistons isn't remembered enough) and of course we, as Celtics fans, should know more than the Spurs since we saw how we defended LeBron in multiple playoff series.

In the last couple years I think he was basically unstoppable in the Playoffs.  The way he beat us in Game 6 was kind of the ultimate statement I thought.  But part of that was also his teammates.  I think the teams in Cleveland had really poor levels of talent around LeBron.  He didn't have much help.

Anyways, KD is lighting it up and yes, he will get better I'm sure.  It'll be fun to watch.  He has already developed more in those areas than I thought he could and he is of course younger than LeBron.

[dark_lord]

This guy is only 25 years old and he's absolutely killing it. Can he be a top 10 player of all time when its all said and done?

im not sure if he can be top ten.  time will tell.  he is filling it up right now, but he has HUGE shoes to fill to be considered a top 10 all time player

i love the guys game tho...a lot of fun to watch

[Clench123]

Sky, baby.  Sky high.

[D.o.s.]

This guy is only 25 years old and he's absolutely killing it. Can he be a top 10 player of all time when its all said and done?

im not sure if he can be top ten.  time will tell.  he is filling it up right now, but he has HUGE shoes to fill to be considered a top 10 all time player

i love the guys game tho...a lot of fun to watch

I started a thread a while ago about what would happen to KD if he was killed/abducted by aliens/maimed/refused to ever play another minute of NBA basketball.

General consensus was that his resume was already good enough for the Hall of Fame. If he's already there at 25... why wouldn't he plausibly hit the top ten?

[crimson_stallion]

I think so.

But he has to improve to the point where he is a better player then Lebron for a season. 


When you look at the top 10 of all time, each one of them I bet you can make the argument that they were the best player in the league for a season or two.

I don t thnk it's unreasonable to say he's been better than LeBron this season.

I do.

He scores what - 3 PPG more than Lebron? 

Lebron on the other hand is a better post scorer, better passer, better defender...

Oh and speaking of defense, Durant still doesn't know what it is.  Plus he still doesn't have that killer mentality that Lebron has - he's still about as tough as tinkerbell.  Until he learns to actually play some defense and lead his team to something worthwhile, he'll always be below Lebron.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Looked up Durant on NBADraft.net. Just for kicks.

Comparison was Dirk/T-Mac.

Aesthetically, the nonchalant, makes-it-look-easy style of basketball T-Mac and Durant both have it down.

Too bad T-Mac never came to be thanks to [dang] injuries. Would have loved Yao to win one.

Durant is a rich man's T-Mac. A few years ago, when T-Mac was still relevant, this'd have been a scary thought.

[fitzhickey]

I think so.

But he has to improve to the point where he is a better player then Lebron for a season. 


When you look at the top 10 of all time, each one of them I bet you can make the argument that they were the best player in the league for a season or two.

I don t thnk it's unreasonable to say he's been better than LeBron this season.

I do.

He scores what - 3 PPG more than Lebron? 

Lebron on the other hand is a better post scorer, better passer, better defender...

Oh and speaking of defense, Durant still doesn't know what it is.  Plus he still doesn't have that killer mentality that Lebron has - he's still about as tough as tinkerbell.  Until he learns to actually play some defense and lead his team to something worthwhile, he'll always be below Lebron.

Durant is more efficient than Lebron. 180 club member. Better rebounder and I have no idea how Lebron has more of a killer instinct than KD

[PhoSita]

I don't think it's unreasonable but I think people doing that like I'm seeing lately is just a reminder no one cares that much about defense.  Not that KD is bad on D (I have been happy to see his defense improve) but LeBron is guarding 1-5 positions at an elite level.  He's such a great defensive player.

LeBron's having a bit of a down year defensively.  Probably a lack of effort coming off two championships, but still.

[crimson_stallion]

I think so.

But he has to improve to the point where he is a better player then Lebron for a season. 


When you look at the top 10 of all time, each one of them I bet you can make the argument that they were the best player in the league for a season or two.

I don t thnk it's unreasonable to say he's been better than LeBron this season.

I do.

He scores what - 3 PPG more than Lebron? 

Lebron on the other hand is a better post scorer, better passer, better defender...

Oh and speaking of defense, Durant still doesn't know what it is.  Plus he still doesn't have that killer mentality that Lebron has - he's still about as tough as tinkerbell.  Until he learns to actually play some defense and lead his team to something worthwhile, he'll always be below Lebron.

Durant is more efficient than Lebron. 180 club member. Better rebounder and I have no idea how Lebron has more of a killer instinct than KD

Durant averages 31.5 PPG, 9.7 FGM and 19.1 FGA with an eFG% of 56.5%

Lebron averages 25.5 PPG, 9.3 FGM and 16.3 FGA with an eFG% of 61.1%

Durant averages an extra 2.8 FGA per game and if you multiple that by 2 (assuming the shots are 2 point FG) you get 5.6 extra points.  That's basically corresponds exactly to the difference in scoring between the two players (6 PPG).  That basically tells you the extra scoring Durant gets are purely a result of higher usage (i.e. more FG attempts). 

If Lebron chucked the ball up three more times a night, he'd likely average right up around what Durant does.     
 
Durant is a more well rounded scorer obviously due to his superior jump shot, but as far as the ability to put points on the board, Lebron is right up there with Durant. 

You could also argue that Lebron makes up for some of that extra scoring ability with his superior passing game.  The extra assist per game that equates to at least 2 PPG extra scoring from his team, meaning that he actually probably produces more points per FGA (with scoring / assists combined) than Durant does.

You say Durant is a better rebounder, but the difference in their rebounding numbers is insignificant - 7.3 RPG for Durant and 6.8 RPG for Lebron.  The extra assist from Lebron is a guaranteed 2-3 points, but an extra rebound only equates to an OPPORTUNITY to score, so that's probably only worth 0.5 points or so (not sure of the exact value).  Durant only averages 0.5 RPG more so that probably equates to about 0.25 extra points...nowhere near the extra that Lebron generates as a result of his extra assist per night.

Then you have defense.  Lebron is one of the best defensive players in the entire league, while Durant is a poor defensive player.

That's before we even begin to start on the 'leadership' argument.  Lebron has led the Heat to back-to-back championships and is well on target to contend for a third.  Durant has made the finals only one time, and when he did his team almost got swept...defeated in 5 games.

Of course you'll throw up the argument of Lebron's other 'talent' but when it's OKC you're talking about, this is definately not a fair argument.  Durant has had Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka over the years - at least a match for the level of talent that Lebron has had in Miami. 

People are just too obsessed with scoring these days.  Guys like Durant, Curry, Harden get way too much credit for being one dimensional guys that only play on the offensive end. 

I have far more respect for guys like Lebron who can dominate a game on both ends of the floor - much like Kobe and Jordan in their primes.  That's why I'd take a guy like Lebron (or even Paul George) over Durant without a second thought.

[scaryjerry]

I think so.

But he has to improve to the point where he is a better player then Lebron for a season. 


When you look at the top 10 of all time, each one of them I bet you can make the argument that they were the best player in the league for a season or two.

I don t thnk it's unreasonable to say he's been better than LeBron this season.

I do.

He scores what - 3 PPG more than Lebron? 

Lebron on the other hand is a better post scorer, better passer, better defender...

Oh and speaking of defense, Durant still doesn't know what it is.  Plus he still doesn't have that killer mentality that Lebron has - he's still about as tough as tinkerbell.  Until he learns to actually play some defense and lead his team to something worthwhile, he'll always be below Lebron.

Your comment pretty much shows you haven't followed Durant this year and have forgotten all of lebrons lumps..killer mentality? Lol LeBron was a joke much of his career and is still light years from a Kobe or mj in that respect.
Durant doesn't know what defense is? Been as good a defender as LeBron this season, and has lead his team further then LeBron took his Cavaliers in a weak east.

LeBron James was mortified and couldn't make jump shots or free throws in his first 2 finals and wanted nothing to do with the ball in his hands in the 4th quarter..killer!

[cman88]

I think he has closed the gap on Lebron significantly. Lebron couldnt guard him when they played.

the key is going to still be that "alpha dog" when westbrook returns. westbrook is a top-10 player in this league..but he should be #2 to durant

although I feel my view of Durant is skewed by the fact that he is a MUCH MUCH more likeable player than Lebron who is an @$$

[scaryjerry]

I think so.

But he has to improve to the point where he is a better player then Lebron for a season. 


When you look at the top 10 of all time, each one of them I bet you can make the argument that they were the best player in the league for a season or two.

I don t thnk it's unreasonable to say he's been better than LeBron this season.

I do.

He scores what - 3 PPG more than Lebron? 

Lebron on the other hand is a better post scorer, better passer, better defender...

Oh and speaking of defense, Durant still doesn't know what it is.  Plus he still doesn't have that killer mentality that Lebron has - he's still about as tough as tinkerbell.  Until he learns to actually play some defense and lead his team to something worthwhile, he'll always be below Lebron.

Durant is more efficient than Lebron. 180 club member. Better rebounder and I have no idea how Lebron has more of a killer instinct than KD

Durant averages 31.5 PPG, 9.7 FGM and 19.1 FGA with an eFG% of 56.5%

Lebron averages 25.5 PPG, 9.3 FGM and 16.3 FGA with an eFG% of 61.1%

Durant averages an extra 2.8 FGA per game and if you multiple that by 2 (assuming the shots are 2 point FG) you get 5.6 extra points.  That's basically corresponds exactly to the difference in scoring between the two players (6 PPG).  That basically tells you the extra scoring Durant gets are purely a result of higher usage (i.e. more FG attempts). 

If Lebron chucked the ball up three more times a night, he'd likely average right up around what Durant does.     
 
Durant is a more well rounded scorer obviously due to his superior jump shot, but as far as the ability to put points on the board, Lebron is right up there with Durant. 

You could also argue that Lebron makes up for some of that extra scoring ability with his superior passing game.  The extra assist per game that equates to at least 2 PPG extra scoring from his team, meaning that he actually probably produces more points per FGA (with scoring / assists combined) than Durant does.

You say Durant is a better rebounder, but the difference in their rebounding numbers is insignificant - 7.3 RPG for Durant and 6.8 RPG for Lebron.  The extra assist from Lebron is a guaranteed 2-3 points, but an extra rebound only equates to an OPPORTUNITY to score, so that's probably only worth 0.5 points or so (not sure of the exact value).  Durant only averages 0.5 RPG more so that probably equates to about 0.25 extra points...nowhere near the extra that Lebron generates as a result of his extra assist per night.

Then you have defense.  Lebron is one of the best defensive players in the entire league, while Durant is a poor defensive player.

That's before we even begin to start on the 'leadership' argument.  Lebron has led the Heat to back-to-back championships and is well on target to contend for a third.  Durant has made the finals only one time, and when he did his team almost got swept...defeated in 5 games.

Of course you'll throw up the argument of Lebron's other 'talent' but when it's OKC you're talking about, this is definately not a fair argument.  Durant has had Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka over the years - at least a match for the level of talent that Lebron has had in Miami. 

People are just too obsessed with scoring these days.  Guys like Durant, Curry, Harden get way too much credit for being one dimensional guys that only play on the offensive end. 

I have far more respect for guys like Lebron who can dominate a game on both ends of the floor - much like Kobe and Jordan in their primes.  That's why I'd take a guy like Lebron (or even Paul George) over Durant without a second thought.

Lol might want to go look up both their defensive numbers for this year bub. Durant has been better..Durant cares and continues to improve in every single area including leaps and bounds on defense, kinda like the Brick laying. Scared to death of the 4th quarter and free throw line LeBron has gotten better on offense

Pulling the LeBron is a leader and Durant isn't card? Um lol..LeBron is an arrogant and petulant child...Durant has shown nothing but phenomenal leadership in okc...You're literally making things up

[RJ87]

I think so.

But he has to improve to the point where he is a better player then Lebron for a season. 


When you look at the top 10 of all time, each one of them I bet you can make the argument that they were the best player in the league for a season or two.

I don t thnk it's unreasonable to say he's been better than LeBron this season.

I do.

He scores what - 3 PPG more than Lebron? 

Lebron on the other hand is a better post scorer, better passer, better defender...

Oh and speaking of defense, Durant still doesn't know what it is.  Plus he still doesn't have that killer mentality that Lebron has - he's still about as tough as tinkerbell.  Until he learns to actually play some defense and lead his team to something worthwhile, he'll always be below Lebron.

Durant is more efficient than Lebron. 180 club member. Better rebounder and I have no idea how Lebron has more of a killer instinct than KD

Durant averages 31.5 PPG, 9.7 FGM and 19.1 FGA with an eFG% of 56.5%

Lebron averages 25.5 PPG, 9.3 FGM and 16.3 FGA with an eFG% of 61.1%

Durant averages an extra 2.8 FGA per game and if you multiple that by 2 (assuming the shots are 2 point FG) you get 5.6 extra points.  That's basically corresponds exactly to the difference in scoring between the two players (6 PPG).  That basically tells you the extra scoring Durant gets are purely a result of higher usage (i.e. more FG attempts). 

If Lebron chucked the ball up three more times a night, he'd likely average right up around what Durant does.     
 
Durant is a more well rounded scorer obviously due to his superior jump shot, but as far as the ability to put points on the board, Lebron is right up there with Durant. 

You could also argue that Lebron makes up for some of that extra scoring ability with his superior passing game.  The extra assist per game that equates to at least 2 PPG extra scoring from his team, meaning that he actually probably produces more points per FGA (with scoring / assists combined) than Durant does.

You say Durant is a better rebounder, but the difference in their rebounding numbers is insignificant - 7.3 RPG for Durant and 6.8 RPG for Lebron.  The extra assist from Lebron is a guaranteed 2-3 points, but an extra rebound only equates to an OPPORTUNITY to score, so that's probably only worth 0.5 points or so (not sure of the exact value).  Durant only averages 0.5 RPG more so that probably equates to about 0.25 extra points...nowhere near the extra that Lebron generates as a result of his extra assist per night.

Then you have defense.  Lebron is one of the best defensive players in the entire league, while Durant is a poor defensive player.

That's before we even begin to start on the 'leadership' argument.  Lebron has led the Heat to back-to-back championships and is well on target to contend for a third.  Durant has made the finals only one time, and when he did his team almost got swept...defeated in 5 games.

Of course you'll throw up the argument of Lebron's other 'talent' but when it's OKC you're talking about, this is definately not a fair argument.  Durant has had Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka over the years - at least a match for the level of talent that Lebron has had in Miami. 

People are just too obsessed with scoring these days.  Guys like Durant, Curry, Harden get way too much credit for being one dimensional guys that only play on the offensive end. 

I have far more respect for guys like Lebron who can dominate a game on both ends of the floor - much like Kobe and Jordan in their primes.  That's why I'd take a guy like Lebron (or even Paul George) over Durant without a second thought.

Have you not watched Durant play? There's just so many things incorrect here. No killer instinct? Um... No question who I'm taking in the 4th with the game on the line of those two.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLVq4hpz-8s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Not a leader? He's basically put the Thunder on his back with Westbrook out. They haven't really missed a beat - can you say the same this season about LeBron without Wade?

If you look up their advanced stats for this season, Durant & LeBron are ridiculously close across the board. Durant is a gifted scorer but to call him one dimensional is completely belittling what he is. He usually leads the Thunder in rebounding (this season may be the first in 3 or so years that he isn't leading the team in that category), he's become a much better playmaker, and if he's such a poor defender then what does that say about LeBron since their defensive rating on the season is neck and neck?

EDIT: Advanced stats for the season: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jamesle01&y1=2014&p2=duranke01&y2=2014#advanced::none

[Fafnir]

If you're going to break down how many points and how many shot attempts they're both getting why in the world are you ignoring FTAs? Both guys get to the line a ton and its a massive part of their games.

Plus FTAs aren't "free". They come typically off of plays where you were going to shoot or at least had the ball, either way they use up a possession most of the time.

[LilRip]

I think so.

But he has to improve to the point where he is a better player then Lebron for a season. 


When you look at the top 10 of all time, each one of them I bet you can make the argument that they were the best player in the league for a season or two.

I don t thnk it's unreasonable to say he's been better than LeBron this season.

I do.

He scores what - 3 PPG more than Lebron? 

Lebron on the other hand is a better post scorer, better passer, better defender...

Oh and speaking of defense, Durant still doesn't know what it is.  Plus he still doesn't have that killer mentality that Lebron has - he's still about as tough as tinkerbell.  Until he learns to actually play some defense and lead his team to something worthwhile, he'll always be below Lebron.

Durant is more efficient than Lebron. 180 club member. Better rebounder and I have no idea how Lebron has more of a killer instinct than KD

Durant averages 31.5 PPG, 9.7 FGM and 19.1 FGA with an eFG% of 56.5%

Lebron averages 25.5 PPG, 9.3 FGM and 16.3 FGA with an eFG% of 61.1%

Durant averages an extra 2.8 FGA per game and if you multiple that by 2 (assuming the shots are 2 point FG) you get 5.6 extra points.  That's basically corresponds exactly to the difference in scoring between the two players (6 PPG).  That basically tells you the extra scoring Durant gets are purely a result of higher usage (i.e. more FG attempts). 

If Lebron chucked the ball up three more times a night, he'd likely average right up around what Durant does.     
 
Durant is a more well rounded scorer obviously due to his superior jump shot, but as far as the ability to put points on the board, Lebron is right up there with Durant. 

You could also argue that Lebron makes up for some of that extra scoring ability with his superior passing game.  The extra assist per game that equates to at least 2 PPG extra scoring from his team, meaning that he actually probably produces more points per FGA (with scoring / assists combined) than Durant does.

You say Durant is a better rebounder, but the difference in their rebounding numbers is insignificant - 7.3 RPG for Durant and 6.8 RPG for Lebron.  The extra assist from Lebron is a guaranteed 2-3 points, but an extra rebound only equates to an OPPORTUNITY to score, so that's probably only worth 0.5 points or so (not sure of the exact value).  Durant only averages 0.5 RPG more so that probably equates to about 0.25 extra points...nowhere near the extra that Lebron generates as a result of his extra assist per night.

Then you have defense.  Lebron is one of the best defensive players in the entire league, while Durant is a poor defensive player.

That's before we even begin to start on the 'leadership' argument.  Lebron has led the Heat to back-to-back championships and is well on target to contend for a third.  Durant has made the finals only one time, and when he did his team almost got swept...defeated in 5 games.

Of course you'll throw up the argument of Lebron's other 'talent' but when it's OKC you're talking about, this is definately not a fair argument.  Durant has had Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka over the years - at least a match for the level of talent that Lebron has had in Miami. 

People are just too obsessed with scoring these days.  Guys like Durant, Curry, Harden get way too much credit for being one dimensional guys that only play on the offensive end. 

I have far more respect for guys like Lebron who can dominate a game on both ends of the floor - much like Kobe and Jordan in their primes.  That's why I'd take a guy like Lebron (or even Paul George) over Durant without a second thought.

one dimensional? lack of leadership? poor defensive player?

says the guy who likely observed Durant in his rookie year, assumed his career trajectory and now occasionally looks at stats.

Durant is likely going to win the MVP this year.