The next 10 games will obliterate our lottery chances.

[BballTim]

Too often I read in these forums about teams tanking. Let me tell you all something, Bucks are not tanking. They're just no good. They built their offense around OJ Mayo... OJ MAYO!!! And apart from some players with potential, they have nothing. The Magic are not tanking. They're just no good. Same with the C's. Same with Sixers.

People, just because a team is near the bottom of the standings it DOES NOT mean they're tanking. Some teams are just plain no good!!!

Some observers are capable of looking behind the team standings as to how and why the teams are composed as they are. The Celtics and Sixers are two good cases in point.

It's pretty nice some people have the inside scoop.

Too bad I'm just a peasant without insider access 

in the cases of the C's and Sixers, they gave away better players than they brought back and actually focussed their return on draft picks rather than current talent.  that's not much of a mystery.

  The Celts traded Lee for future financial flexibility. They traded Crawford to avoid the headache that they'd be dealing with as Crawford lost his minutes to Rondo, the same way the Wizards did the year before.

Total speculation on the second part. Dude doesn't seem to be causing any problems in Golden State.

  It's not my speculation, when he was traded that was one of the reasons that whoever reported the deal for CSN before the next Celts game mentioned as to why the Celts wanted to move him. And he likely wouldn't be causing problems yet in any case. He was fine for Boston last year after the trade.

[nickagneta]

I see some of the details of that Ray/KG trade summer have been lost over time.

Minnesota tried to KG to Boston before the Ray trade happened but the trade didn't occur because KG refused to sign an extension in Boston. Yes, Boston being a bad team was a factor but those plugged into KG were saying that KG would never sign long term with any team that had Wally Szczerbiak on it.

Remember Wally and KG spent years together in Minnesota squabbling over things and both trying to be the alpha dog.(A position KG was obviously qualified for and Wally wasn't). KG HATED Wally and didn't want to play with him anymore.

The Ray trade was great and got KG here for two reasons. It gave Boston another piece that could convert them into a winner and, possibly more important, it got rid of Wally Szczerbiak from the Boston roster.

I have a side question because I dont know the answer to this. Did the Ray Allen trade happen because 1) Seattle was able to draft Durant and they decided they wanted a youth movement? 2) Ray was a 32-year old player coming off a surgery that often spelled the downside of SG's careers and they would've traded him for a high pick and a prospect anyway? Or 3) other reasons I may have missed?

There were numerous reasons why Ray was on the market at that time but the biggest was because Seattle was up for sale and the ownership was trying to make the Sonics as appealing as they could when it came to player payroll. They let Rashard Lewis walk and then traded Ray to get all their hefty contracts off the books which gave any new owners all the flexibility they would desire in being able to mold the team in their vision in the future.

Also, some of what you said was also part of it.

[BballTim]

I see some of the details of that Ray/KG trade summer have been lost over time.

Minnesota tried to KG to Boston before the Ray trade happened but the trade didn't occur because KG refused to sign an extension in Boston. Yes, Boston being a bad team was a factor but those plugged into KG were saying that KG would never sign long term with any team that had Wally Szczerbiak on it.

Remember Wally and KG spent years together in Minnesota squabbling over things and both trying to be the alpha dog.(A position KG was obviously qualified for and Wally wasn't). KG HATED Wally and didn't want to play with him anymore.

The Ray trade was great and got KG here for two reasons. It gave Boston another piece that could convert them into a winner and, possibly more important, it got rid of Wally Szczerbiak from the Boston roster.

I have a side question because I dont know the answer to this. Did the Ray Allen trade happen because 1) Seattle was able to draft Durant and they decided they wanted a youth movement? 2) Ray was a 32-year old player coming off a surgery that often spelled the downside of SG's careers and they would've traded him for a high pick and a prospect anyway? Or 3) other reasons I may have missed?

There were numerous reasons why Ray was on the market at that time but the biggest was because Seattle was up for sale and the ownership was trying to make the Sonics as appealing as they could when it came to player payroll. They let Rashard Lewis walk and then traded Ray to get all their hefty contracts off the books which gave any new owners all the flexibility they would desire in being able to mold the team in their vision in the future.

Also, some of what you said was also part of it.

  If Ray stayed in Seattle they'd have been a better team and wouldn't have gotten any high picks after Durant. Plus he'd be heading to role player status when that team was ready to contend.

  You also have to consider, based on the issues Ray apparently had on the Celts, that Seattle might have wanted to trade away Ray because he'd have ego problems playing second fiddle to a youngster like Durant.

[D.o.s.]

Based on the way he was happy stepping aside for Wade, I don't think that would've been a problem.

I don't know if you know this, but Kevin Durant is a little bit better at basketball than Avery Bradley.

[Enzzo]

I don't know if you know this, but Kevin Durant is a little bit better at basketball than Avery Bradley.

Source???

[BballTim]

Based on the way he was happy stepping aside for Wade, I don't think that would've been a problem.

I don't know if you know this, but Kevin Durant is a little bit better at basketball than Avery Bradley.

  Ray was younger and better then, he probably wouldn't have been happy stepping aside even for Wade at the time. You're also assuming his angst about playing behind Bradley was unrelated to his age and level of experience. And congratulations on figuring out Durant's a better player than Bradley, I'm sure you're quite proud of yourself but it's somewhat more noticeable than you imagine.

[LooseCannon]

I see some of the details of that Ray/KG trade summer have been lost over time.

Minnesota tried to KG to Boston before the Ray trade happened but the trade didn't occur because KG refused to sign an extension in Boston. Yes, Boston being a bad team was a factor but those plugged into KG were saying that KG would never sign long term with any team that had Wally Szczerbiak on it.

Remember Wally and KG spent years together in Minnesota squabbling over things and both trying to be the alpha dog.(A position KG was obviously qualified for and Wally wasn't). KG HATED Wally and didn't want to play with him anymore.

The Ray trade was great and got KG here for two reasons. It gave Boston another piece that could convert them into a winner and, possibly more important, it got rid of Wally Szczerbiak from the Boston roster.

I have a side question because I dont know the answer to this. Did the Ray Allen trade happen because 1) Seattle was able to draft Durant and they decided they wanted a youth movement? 2) Ray was a 32-year old player coming off a surgery that often spelled the downside of SG's careers and they would've traded him for a high pick and a prospect anyway? Or 3) other reasons I may have missed?

There were numerous reasons why Ray was on the market at that time but the biggest was because Seattle was up for sale and the ownership was trying to make the Sonics as appealing as they could when it came to player payroll. They let Rashard Lewis walk and then traded Ray to get all their hefty contracts off the books which gave any new owners all the flexibility they would desire in being able to mold the team in their vision in the future.

Also, some of what you said was also part of it.

Ray Allen was traded to the Celtics in June 2007.  Rashard Lewis agreed to a sign-and-trade in July 2007.  Clay Bennett's group bought the Sonics in 2006.  A common belief is that Bennett and company were trying to alienate the fan base in order to make it easier to move the team to OKC.

[D.o.s.]

Based on the way he was happy stepping aside for Wade, I don't think that would've been a problem.

I don't know if you know this, but Kevin Durant is a little bit better at basketball than Avery Bradley.

  Ray was younger and better then, he probably wouldn't have been happy stepping aside even for Wade at the time. You're also assuming his angst about playing behind Bradley was unrelated to his age and level of experience. And congratulations on figuring out Durant's a better player than Bradley, I'm sure you're quite proud of yourself but it's somewhat more noticeable than you imagine.

Let me celebrate my accomplishments in peace.

I don't know if you know this, but Kevin Durant is a little bit better at basketball than Avery Bradley.

Source???

[nickagneta]

I see some of the details of that Ray/KG trade summer have been lost over time.

Minnesota tried to KG to Boston before the Ray trade happened but the trade didn't occur because KG refused to sign an extension in Boston. Yes, Boston being a bad team was a factor but those plugged into KG were saying that KG would never sign long term with any team that had Wally Szczerbiak on it.

Remember Wally and KG spent years together in Minnesota squabbling over things and both trying to be the alpha dog.(A position KG was obviously qualified for and Wally wasn't). KG HATED Wally and didn't want to play with him anymore.

The Ray trade was great and got KG here for two reasons. It gave Boston another piece that could convert them into a winner and, possibly more important, it got rid of Wally Szczerbiak from the Boston roster.

I have a side question because I dont know the answer to this. Did the Ray Allen trade happen because 1) Seattle was able to draft Durant and they decided they wanted a youth movement? 2) Ray was a 32-year old player coming off a surgery that often spelled the downside of SG's careers and they would've traded him for a high pick and a prospect anyway? Or 3) other reasons I may have missed?

There were numerous reasons why Ray was on the market at that time but the biggest was because Seattle was up for sale and the ownership was trying to make the Sonics as appealing as they could when it came to player payroll. They let Rashard Lewis walk and then traded Ray to get all their hefty contracts off the books which gave any new owners all the flexibility they would desire in being able to mold the team in their vision in the future.

Also, some of what you said was also part of it.

Ray Allen was traded to the Celtics in June 2007.  Rashard Lewis agreed to a sign-and-trade in July 2007.  Clay Bennett's group bought the Sonics in 2006.  A common belief is that Bennett and company were trying to alienate the fan base in order to make it easier to move the team to OKC.

I misremembered but I knew it had to do something with the new ownership. You are right it was the Bennetts trying to get the team to OKC because they wanted a new publicly paid for arena in Seattle and the city was playing hard ball with them.

[BballTim]

Based on the way he was happy stepping aside for Wade, I don't think that would've been a problem.

I don't know if you know this, but Kevin Durant is a little bit better at basketball than Avery Bradley.

  Ray was younger and better then, he probably wouldn't have been happy stepping aside even for Wade at the time. You're also assuming his angst about playing behind Bradley was unrelated to his age and level of experience. And congratulations on figuring out Durant's a better player than Bradley, I'm sure you're quite proud of yourself but it's somewhat more noticeable than you imagine.

Let me celebrate my accomplishments in peace.

  Knock yourself out.

[droopdog7]

It's amazing how bad you have to be to tank.  We win one game in who know's how long and we drop from the three spot to the 5 spot.  And we are now only a hair ahead of teams (i.e., the lakers) that I think we are better than.

So frankly, I am just hoping we can stay in the top 10 here.

[LooseCannon]

I see some of the details of that Ray/KG trade summer have been lost over time.

Minnesota tried to KG to Boston before the Ray trade happened but the trade didn't occur because KG refused to sign an extension in Boston. Yes, Boston being a bad team was a factor but those plugged into KG were saying that KG would never sign long term with any team that had Wally Szczerbiak on it.

Remember Wally and KG spent years together in Minnesota squabbling over things and both trying to be the alpha dog.(A position KG was obviously qualified for and Wally wasn't). KG HATED Wally and didn't want to play with him anymore.

The Ray trade was great and got KG here for two reasons. It gave Boston another piece that could convert them into a winner and, possibly more important, it got rid of Wally Szczerbiak from the Boston roster.

I have a side question because I dont know the answer to this. Did the Ray Allen trade happen because 1) Seattle was able to draft Durant and they decided they wanted a youth movement? 2) Ray was a 32-year old player coming off a surgery that often spelled the downside of SG's careers and they would've traded him for a high pick and a prospect anyway? Or 3) other reasons I may have missed?

There were numerous reasons why Ray was on the market at that time but the biggest was because Seattle was up for sale and the ownership was trying to make the Sonics as appealing as they could when it came to player payroll. They let Rashard Lewis walk and then traded Ray to get all their hefty contracts off the books which gave any new owners all the flexibility they would desire in being able to mold the team in their vision in the future.

Also, some of what you said was also part of it.

Ray Allen was traded to the Celtics in June 2007.  Rashard Lewis agreed to a sign-and-trade in July 2007.  Clay Bennett's group bought the Sonics in 2006.  A common belief is that Bennett and company were trying to alienate the fan base in order to make it easier to move the team to OKC.

I misremembered but I knew it had to do something with the new ownership. You are right it was the Bennetts trying to get the team to OKC because they wanted a new publicly paid for arena in Seattle and the city was playing hard ball with them.

There are questions about whether or not Bennett negotiated in good faith for a new arena.  Keep in mind that one of the Bennett's co-owners was fined $250K by the league for saying that they didn't buy the team to keep it in Seattle. 

What some hail as a grand rebuilding plan was really just a lucky by-product of the main goal of screwing over Seattle fans so a bunch of Oklahoma fat cats could have a toy to play with in their backyard.  I have no desire to copy them.

[D.o.s.]

No doubts at all--it's pretty clear that they didn't.

Here's a PDF of some of the emails (the first email is at the bottom, it reads bottom up)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/09/2004338431.pdf


And, if you really want an excuse to applaud the departure of David Stern, there's this one, too:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/09/2004338441.pdf

[mmmmm]

No doubts at all--it's pretty clear that they didn't.

Here's a PDF of some of the emails (the first email is at the bottom, it reads bottom up)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/09/2004338431.pdf


And, if you really want an excuse to applaud the departure of David Stern, there's this one, too:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/09/2004338441.pdf

ARRGH%*(&SGURGLE.....

You are bringing back bad memories ('lived in WA a long time so Seattle is my 'other' city who's teams I root for).    This Super Bowl was a great purging of such bad memories (including getting screwed in the Jerome Bettis Retirement Bowl(tm)).

The NBA will never quite be 'right' until the SuperSonics are back!

Now, excuse me while I have to go and poke more needles into my Clay Bennet effigy.

[vjcsmoke]

Only 6 games until the trade deadline.  Hold your breathe.

I think we're going to see Bass and Green change teams.
Bogans and Hump better stay on the Speed Dial as well. 

Hopefully we can resign Chris Johnson after the trade frenzy is finished.  Hopefully DA has a wink-wink promise to resign him in place.