Author Topic: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS (Read 3219 times)

TheFlex · « **on:** January 13, 2014, 08:24:15 PM »

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lxmmr6z

Can teams put protection on "right to swap" picks? If so:

BOS in: Ben Gordon, Portland 1st (from CHA), 2015 right to swap with CHA (lottery protected 2015, top seven protected 2016, top three protected 2017, unprotected onward)
BOS out: Jeff Green, Keith Bogans

CHA in: Jeff Green, Keith Bogans
CHA out: Ben Gordon, Portland 1st (from CHA), 2015 right to swap (lottery protected)

If not, just literally swap the picks. BOS 2015 to CHA, CHA protected 2015 to BOS.

Why for BOS: Clear Jeff's contract (Gordon's 13 million expires after the season) and establish a clear direction going forward. Jeff Green is not part of the Celtics' future so long as their star's future with the team is uncertain. If Rondo stays, it's preferable to have overpaid contracts like Jeff's off the books while trying to negotiate a near max contract with Rondo. If he's traded, it's preferable to have overpaid contracts like Jeff's off the books while trying to bring on the contract of our next star (whether it be via free agency or trade within the next few years, or via the draft within the next few years). Also collect two first rounders from a shaky team.

Why for CHA: I'm baffled by it but for some reason Charlotte's management wants to make the playoffs this year, even though they haven't fulfilled the most basic step of the rebuilding blueprint in finding a franchise cornerstone. Exchanging Ben Gordon, who does almost nothing for them nowadays, for Jeff Green secures their playoff hopes. Adding a 15-20 ppg scorer to their offense who can defend long wings will do wonders for both their offense and defense. Keith Bogans adds a veteran presence to the locker room and they gain some of Gordon's expiring back with the ability to waive Bogans after the season. They won't win a championship, but it gives them a reasonable shot at grabbing the fifth or sixth seed and maybe even sneaking into the second round. That's all they're wishing for, apparently.

Plan for the future: All of this is relative and based on assumptions. Let's assume Rondo doesn't come back til February and we trade Green. That team, even with Rondo (Rondo-Bradley-Gerald Wallace-Sullinger-Humphries; bad bench) will be lucky to crack 10 wins after the All-Star break. We get a top three pick and draft Embiid. We then package picks/assets (remember that with the CHA deal we'd have 11 first round picks over five years, 10 if you keep the Embiid pick) for a late lottery pick (8-14). We pick James Young as our small forward of the future. We'd then have:

Rondo/Bayless/Pressey
Bradley (re-sign)/Crawford (re-sign)/{Bayless}
Young/Wallace (trade next year?)/???
Sully/Olynyk
Embiid/Vitor/{Olynyk}

I'd love to re-sign Humphries but unless Olynyk finds himself in a trade with a Bass (who I want to trade) or Crawford (who I'd be willing to keep if on the cheap), there's no playing time and Olynyk is younger/cheaper/has more potential.

Thoughts? Remember our chances of re-signing Rondo/Bradley/Sully increase if we draft stars rather than dole out max deals to stars thru free agency or bring on bloated deals thru trade.

slamtheking · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2014, 08:53:41 PM »

I seriously doubt Jeff Green and Bogans expiring deal gets us a bigger expiring deal and 2 first rounders (technically 1 1st rounder and a shot at switching when we most likely will have the worse record for at least a couple of years or more

TheFlex · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2014, 09:10:22 PM »

Quote from: slamtheking on January 13, 2014, 08:53:41 PM

I seriously doubt Jeff Green and Bogans expiring deal gets us a bigger expiring deal and 2 first rounders (technically 1 1st rounder and a shot at switching when we most likely will have the worse record for at least a couple of years or more

You make it sound differently than it is. Look at Ben Gordon's averages. He's essentially a body at this point. You're giving them 15 points and good defense for eight mil in expirings (13 mil - 5 mil), a mid first rounder this year (probably in the 15-20 range), and a lottery protected swap next year. They'd still get a pick even if the Celtics swapped next year and they're likely to be in the same position next year as they are this year. I honestly think they'd be better than the Cs next year and the swap will expire. It's really a small piece because I thought eight mil in expiring and a mid first was just short for Green.

slamtheking · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2014, 09:18:57 PM »

Quote from: TheFlex on January 13, 2014, 09:10:22 PM

Quote from: slamtheking on January 13, 2014, 08:53:41 PM
I seriously doubt Jeff Green and Bogans expiring deal gets us a bigger expiring deal and 2 first rounders (technically 1 1st rounder and a shot at switching when we most likely will have the worse record for at least a couple of years or more

You make it sound differently than it is. Look at Ben Gordon's averages. He's essentially a body at this point. You're giving them 15 points and good defense for eight mil in expirings (13 mil - 5 mil), a mid first rounder this year (probably in the 15-20 range), and a lottery protected swap next year. They'd still get a pick even if the Celtics swapped next year and they're likely to be in the same position next year as they are this year. I honestly think they'd be better than the Cs next year and the swap will expire. It's really a small piece because I thought eight mil in expiring and a mid first was just short for Green.

I disagree -- I'm making it sound like just what it is.

Gordon is a bigger expiring deal than Bogans regardless of him being just a body.

it comes down to Green having to make up the difference in that salary relief and in your estimation be worth a 1st rounder in a deep draft AND worth swapping picks.

I would like to think we could do better for Green without worrying about gettings expirings. Either get a better first rounder or get a Portland-level 1st and a high second rounder (or a right to swap firsts that stays in effect until we have a better record)

TheFlex · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2014, 09:28:22 PM »

Quote from: slamtheking on January 13, 2014, 09:18:57 PM

Quote from: TheFlex on January 13, 2014, 09:10:22 PM
Quote from: slamtheking on January 13, 2014, 08:53:41 PM
I seriously doubt Jeff Green and Bogans expiring deal gets us a bigger expiring deal and 2 first rounders (technically 1 1st rounder and a shot at switching when we most likely will have the worse record for at least a couple of years or more

You make it sound differently than it is. Look at Ben Gordon's averages. He's essentially a body at this point. You're giving them 15 points and good defense for eight mil in expirings (13 mil - 5 mil), a mid first rounder this year (probably in the 15-20 range), and a lottery protected swap next year. They'd still get a pick even if the Celtics swapped next year and they're likely to be in the same position next year as they are this year. I honestly think they'd be better than the Cs next year and the swap will expire. It's really a small piece because I thought eight mil in expiring and a mid first was just short for Green.
I disagree -- I'm making it sound like just what it is.

Gordon is a bigger expiring deal than Bogans regardless of him being just a body.

it comes down to Green having to make up the difference in that salary relief and in your estimation be worth a 1st rounder in a deep draft AND worth swapping picks.

I would like to think we could do better for Green without worrying about gettings expirings. Either get a better first rounder or get a Portland-level 1st and a high second rounder (or a right to swap firsts that stays in effect until we have a better record)

Not picking on you -- just think it's an interesting discussion to have and we're the only two having it.

I would agree with you about the attraction to CHA if there weren't rumors that they wanted to make the playoffs. I can only interpret from said rumors that the Bobcats are willing to sacrifice the future, at least until next season, for a shot at the playoffs this year. They eat Jeff's deal and give up Portland's pick (which is an even worse pick than one in the 15-20s -- sorry about that in my last post, I was thinking they were trading their pick, which will likely be 15-20). The swap probably just expires next year unless Kemba/JG/Jefferson isn't enough to grab at least an eighth seed.

I don't think you're getting more than one first rounder and a decent swap offer for Jeff. The CBA makes deals like Green's absolute killers and adds greater value to first round picks. Young, cheap, NBA-ready players (usually the make-up of a late first-rounder) are a hot commodity in the NBA and you aren't getting a better shot for two of them in exchange for Green than this one, especially if they give you Gordon's expiring.

Yb2 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2014, 09:39:31 PM »

Why not use Green to dump Wallace and get MKG in return:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kbjrco3
BOS sends: Green Wallace and Crawford
CHA sends: MKG Gordon and Haywood

Dunno who should send who pics, but this trade solve our Wallace problem, get us a nice prospect in MKG and for the pro tankers it will make us even worse.

What say you?

TheFlex · « **Reply #6 on:** January 15, 2014, 06:02:09 PM »

Quote from: Yb2 on January 13, 2014, 09:39:31 PM

Why not use Green to dump Wallace and get MKG in return:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kbjrco3
BOS sends: Green Wallace and Crawford
CHA sends: MKG Gordon and Haywood

Dunno who should send who pics, but this trade solve our Wallace problem, get us a nice prospect in MKG and for the pro tankers it will make us even worse.

What say you?

I was thinking about a trade like that but I think Charlotte values MKG more than a mid-first rounder (maybe I'm wrong), and while they certainly have prioritized the playoffs this year (if the rumors are true), I doubt they're willing to completely sacrifice their future to get Green by taking on Wallace. They want to make the playoffs, but I'm sure they know they're not yet done with rebuilding.

kraidstar · « **Reply #7 on:** January 15, 2014, 06:58:29 PM »

i've been thinking about possible trades with charlotte as well.
that team is badly run and desperate to make some kind of splash. in other words, they might be exactly the type of team that could be fleeced in a trade.
charlotte does not have their own pick this year (bulls own it, protected 1-10)
they DO have portland's pick (protected 1-12) and detroit's pick (protected 1-8).
that detroit pick is intriguing.
also, any future 1st-rounder from charlotte should be considered high-value, i have ZERO faith in their management, they could acquire rondo or green and still find a way to be bad for years to come.

Quetzalcoatl · « **Reply #8 on:** January 15, 2014, 07:04:04 PM »

Quote from: kraidstar on January 15, 2014, 06:58:29 PM

i've been thinking about possible trades with charlotte as well.
that team is badly run and desperate to make some kind of splash. in other words, they might be exactly the type of team that could be fleeced in a trade.
charlotte does not have their own pick this year (bulls own it, protected 1-10)
they DO have portland's pick (protected 1-12) and detroit's pick (protected 1-8).
that detroit pick is intriguing.
also, any future 1st-rounder from charlotte should be considered high-value, i have ZERO faith in their management, they could acquire rondo or green and still find a way to be bad for years to come.

I agree. I like the idea of getting picks ten years from now from poorly run teams with bad owners while we can stomach holding a fire sale for our current roster. We have enough assets now that I think we can get competitive in the meantime and a 2018 Charlotte first could be our "Len Bias" pick - i.e. a superstar we can add via the draft when we have no business drafting high

Yb2 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 15, 2014, 07:11:24 PM »

You're probably right. But a 1st and a 2nd (or a couple) should do it in my opinion. The Cats might be desesperate enough to do it. They're sitting 8th right now, with BRK NY & CLE lurking they might do it. I doubt that all of ATL CHI & DET fall of the PO race, they should make a move.

BudweiserCeltic · « **Reply #10 on:** January 15, 2014, 07:17:29 PM »

I have no interest in moving Green merely in a salary dump move and to acquire even more draft picks.

playdream · « **Reply #11 on:** January 16, 2014, 09:17:01 AM »

Do it! Green is not in our future

Author Topic: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS (Read 3219 times)

Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS

TheFlex

Re: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS

slamtheking

Re: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS

TheFlex

Re: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS

slamtheking

Re: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS

TheFlex

Re: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS

Yb2

Re: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS

TheFlex

Re: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS

kraidstar

Re: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS

Quetzalcoatl

Re: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS

Yb2

Re: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS

BudweiserCeltic

Re: Idea: BOS-CHA; Jeff Green to CHA, 1st and expirings to BOS

playdream

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