Kings are putting together a package for Rondo

[Eddie20]

Rondo's a top 10 PG

Well, more like a top 5 PG in an era of some really great PGs.

And the thing to remember about Rondo is he's spent his entire career playing in a straight jacket with Doc's walk-it-up, grind-it-out offense that was entirely designed to get shots for KG and Pierce.  This is the first time in his career when Rondo's really going to be able to run a team like CP3 and other top point guards do.

Mike

I'll take Paul, Williams, Irving, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, and Parker over him right now. With Wall, Holiday, Rubio, all rising. You have Rondo ahead of 3 of the first group of names I mentioned? Really?

[Jailan34]

Rondo's a top 10 PG

Well, more like a top 5 PG in an era of some really great PGs.

And the thing to remember about Rondo is he's spent his entire career playing in a straight jacket with Doc's walk-it-up, grind-it-out offense that was entirely designed to get shots for KG and Pierce.  This is the first time in his career when Rondo's really going to be able to run a team like CP3 and other top point guards do.

Mike

In no particular order

Curry, parker, westbrook, cp3, williams, lillard, rose when healthy( if youre counting rondo when hes injured im counting rose) john wall.

So I have rondo at 8th.

[Jailan34]

Rondo's a top 10 PG

Well, more like a top 5 PG in an era of some really great PGs.

And the thing to remember about Rondo is he's spent his entire career playing in a straight jacket with Doc's walk-it-up, grind-it-out offense that was entirely designed to get shots for KG and Pierce.  This is the first time in his career when Rondo's really going to be able to run a team like CP3 and other top point guards do.

Mike

I'll take Paul, Williams, Irving, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, and Parker over him right now. With Wall, Holiday, Rubio, all rising. You have Rondo ahead of 3 of the first group of names I mentioned? Really?

Oh sorry didn't see your post, maybe we should combine posts

[KGs Knee]

How good are these proposed picks supposed to be?  Are they the Kings' own picks?

If so, I'd be extremely hesitant to do this deal.  Hypothetically, this deal would give the Kings a core of Rondo, Gay, Cousins.  That alone should be sufficient to ensure the picks aren't that great.  The players coming in are definitely not 'centerpiece' assets either.

The proposed deal is basically a whole lotta B-level assets.  Not a single A-level asset in the deal.  I'd pass.

[LarBrd33]

I just can't talk myself into the idea of a 5'9 guard being the centerpiece of a successful NBA team.

me neither.  But 20 year old Mclemore and two 1sts for a fringe all-star PG who can't shoot?... that's an absolute haul.

   When you're talking about draft picks who might turn out to be all-stars someday you refer to them as franchise cornerstones, but you refer to someone who's made 4 straight all-star games as a fringe all-star. You somehow reversed those definitions in your head.

With the amount of great PGs in the NBA I highly question him getting half that many for the rest of his career.

  I spent much of the offseason hearing about how Rondo was unlikely to make any more all-star games because the other point guards were so great. Now we're seeing threads about how Jordon Crawford has a shot at being an all-star. If you've been here since 2008 or so you'd have seen numerous posts about how Rondo will never be (fill in the blank) unless he greatly improves his jump shot and ft%, with (fill in the blank) starting out as "anything other than a below average pg" and progressing through above average, having a chance at being an all-star and so on.

  Every time Rondo surpasses the previous "unattainable level" the "Rondo will never" crowd just moves on to the next prediction like nothing happened. Rondo's been in the league for quite some time. If he was as bad as his detractors imagine they'd be saying "Rondo has never done" all the time instead of saying "Rondo's unlikely to ever do" about things he's already done multiple times.

Well, let's not ignore facts though. Rondo was an injury replacement in 2012 (Joe Johnson) and was voted in by the fans last year, which the fan voting being a glorified popularity contest. Let's not act as though Rondo is a sure fire all-star. Many questioned him even being on the team last year because our record was so poor.

He stays in the East and he deals with Williams, Irving, and Wall. Goes to the West and it gets worse with Paul, Curry, Lillard, Parker, and Westbrook.

  Rondo was injured during much of the abbreviated voting in 2012, that's why he wasn't on the roster to begin with. Claiming that you shouldn't count a player's all-star appearances if they're voted in as starters? Hilarious.

Good point... calling him a "fringe all-star" isn't appropriate.   We should be calling him an "injury prone fringe all-star"

  I mentioned this before, but you refer to someone who's made the last 4 all-star teams a fringe all-star, but you refer to draft picks who might be all-stars someday as franchise cornerstones. The terms you're using don't really mean what you think they do.

Good point.   We should refer to him as an "injury prone former all-star".

[kozlodoev]

I'll take Paul, Williams, Irving, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, and Parker over him right now. With Wall, Holiday, Rubio, all rising. You have Rondo ahead of 3 of the first group of names I mentioned? Really?

I can easily see and argument for Rondo over Irving, Curry, or Lilliard.

[contramundum]

I just can't talk myself into the idea of a 5'9 guard being the centerpiece of a successful NBA team.

me neither.  But 20 year old Mclemore and two 1sts for a fringe all-star PG who can't shoot?... that's an absolute haul.

   When you're talking about draft picks who might turn out to be all-stars someday you refer to them as franchise cornerstones, but you refer to someone who's made 4 straight all-star games as a fringe all-star. You somehow reversed those definitions in your head.

With the amount of great PGs in the NBA I highly question him getting half that many for the rest of his career.

  I spent much of the offseason hearing about how Rondo was unlikely to make any more all-star games because the other point guards were so great. Now we're seeing threads about how Jordon Crawford has a shot at being an all-star. If you've been here since 2008 or so you'd have seen numerous posts about how Rondo will never be (fill in the blank) unless he greatly improves his jump shot and ft%, with (fill in the blank) starting out as "anything other than a below average pg" and progressing through above average, having a chance at being an all-star and so on.

  Every time Rondo surpasses the previous "unattainable level" the "Rondo will never" crowd just moves on to the next prediction like nothing happened. Rondo's been in the league for quite some time. If he was as bad as his detractors imagine they'd be saying "Rondo has never done" all the time instead of saying "Rondo's unlikely to ever do" about things he's already done multiple times.

Well, let's not ignore facts though. Rondo was an injury replacement in 2012 (Joe Johnson) and was voted in by the fans last year, which the fan voting being a glorified popularity contest. Let's not act as though Rondo is a sure fire all-star. Many questioned him even being on the team last year because our record was so poor.

He stays in the East and he deals with Williams, Irving, and Wall. Goes to the West and it gets worse with Paul, Curry, Lillard, Parker, and Westbrook.

  Rondo was injured during much of the abbreviated voting in 2012, that's why he wasn't on the roster to begin with. Claiming that you shouldn't count a player's all-star appearances if they're voted in as starters? Hilarious.

I didn't say you shouldn't count them, but on many occasions the player was not deserving and they were popularity contests. This applied in Rondo's case last season. And it did in many years with Iverson, Yao, McGrady, Magic (HIV year), etc.

Tim, it's really great to have heroes. It makes you ignore the negative and accentuate the positive. However, that blindness  is what makes you have these constant Rondo debates with other posters. I do like Rondo, just not at the same extent you do (honestly your devotion is hard to top), but I am a realist and see the player for what he is. There are a lot of Tim's out there. There's one in New Orleans talking about Holiday. There's one in Minnesota ranting about Rubio. Hell, there is probably even someone in Miami hyping up Chalmers. It doesn't mean any of you are actually right. It just means that you've lost a grip on reality.

Rondo's a top 10 PG, he's had some great playoff moments, and he's a great passer. However, teams still don't respect his shot, he's a liability at the free throw line, he gambles too much defensively, and he's coming off of knee surgery. And you know what? It's ok to admit it, man.

I don't know if it was your intention, but you're really coming off as a jerk here.  Lost grip on reality?  Sheesh, it's just an opinion guy, lighten up.

Maybe I can shine some light on why guys like Tim are such ardent supporters of Rondo.  The guy is the most unique player I've seen in twenty plus years of consciously watching ball.  I'm not saying he's some sort of once in a lifetime Jordanesque player.  I'm saying he is the first Rajon Rondo.  What is it?  The ball fakes?  The effortless layups with heavy english?  The way he looks bored and gambles on defense unless hes on TV or its the playoffs?  Personally, I love watching the guy.  He always manages to do something that is amazing to me.  Is he the complete player Pierce was at his age?  Is he a elite defender?  I don't know man, but he is just fun as heck to watch.

I mean that 18/17/20 game?

44/10/8/3?

29/13/18?

Even then, some things can't be quantified in a stat line.  To some folks, stat lines are the proof, the end all, be all.  Others may rely on the eye test solely.  I think the truth is somewhere in between. 

As I see it, if you lead the league in any major stat, you're probably a very good player who is going to get an all-star nod.  Add that to what I see him do on the court and I just happen to think he's a very special player who you trade at your own risk.  Personally, I want to see what happens when he starts leading this young team.  Will his game elevate?  Will he do worse?  I think he's gonna really shine in his new role and with the coaching change.

Oh gosh and Irving, Curry, Lillard and current DWill over Rondo?  I am a huge Irving fan, but no way.

[chambers]

I'd take the deal if it was a draft night trade. Unless Danny is gonna go after Carmelo I just can't see a star to pair him with.
If it's not a draft night trade then I have a hard time doing any deal for picks because this team is too good and our picks end up being middle of the road.

I actually offered up a similar trade proposal before the season started but I included Jeff Green- to essentially help us bottom out and ensuring 2 top 10 picks + mclemore for Rondo.

[Jonny CC]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1290961

Didn't see this posted on the forums , sry if there is already a thread

Sac is prepared to offer Isah Thomas, Maclemore, Thorton,Thompson and two 1st rd picks for Rondo and Wallace

Thoughts?

Its a strong offer, but I am not completely sold on Maclmore, how good will he be?

BOOOIIINNNGGGG!!!  That would be a game changer.  I would do that deal in less than a second. 

Then trade Bass and Vitor for Asik.   

[jc3celticsphan]

I'll take Paul, Williams, Irving, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, and Parker over him right now. With Wall, Holiday, Rubio, all rising. You have Rondo ahead of 3 of the first group of names I mentioned? Really?

I can easily see and argument for Rondo over Irving, Curry, or Lilliard.

agreed rondo can be put in the argument with cp3 and deron and he would be 3rd on that list he has work to do before we can put him ahead of those guys but hes more valuable then irving,curry,rose,westbrook and lillard

those guys are scorers more then playmakers and realy dont make the players around them better

but ill take a pass firt pg over a scoring pg to run the team imo.

[jc3celticsphan]

No thanks.

I feel a Rondo/Stevens lead team could do some very special things.

yeah its something more about his presence more then his play kind of like kg. rondo makes up for his lack of scoring with his BBIQ mix him with stevens and we got two evil geniuses

like brady and belichick they just go together

[Mazingerz]

Rondo's a top 10 PG

Well, more like a top 5 PG in an era of some really great PGs.

And the thing to remember about Rondo is he's spent his entire career playing in a straight jacket with Doc's walk-it-up, grind-it-out offense that was entirely designed to get shots for KG and Pierce.  This is the first time in his career when Rondo's really going to be able to run a team like CP3 and other top point guards do.

Mike

I'll take Paul, Williams, Irving, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, and Parker over him right now. With Wall, Holiday, Rubio, all rising. You have Rondo ahead of 3 of the first group of names I mentioned? Really?

Of all the PGs you mentioned above only 2 would merit my consideration as a Rondo replacement; Come on, Irving > Rondo? Deron Williams > Rondo? Curry > Rondo?

Rondo has been the driving force for our play-off runs these past few years. Last year without him the Cs shat versus the knicks;

[Roy H.]

Sounds completely made up.

[BballTim]

Rondo's a top 10 PG

Well, more like a top 5 PG in an era of some really great PGs.

And the thing to remember about Rondo is he's spent his entire career playing in a straight jacket with Doc's walk-it-up, grind-it-out offense that was entirely designed to get shots for KG and Pierce.  This is the first time in his career when Rondo's really going to be able to run a team like CP3 and other top point guards do.

Mike

I'll take Paul, Williams, Irving, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, and Parker over him right now. With Wall, Holiday, Rubio, all rising. You have Rondo ahead of 3 of the first group of names I mentioned? Really?

  If he's healthy he's probably as good as any of them except for (probably) Paul.

[BballTim]

I just can't talk myself into the idea of a 5'9 guard being the centerpiece of a successful NBA team.

me neither.  But 20 year old Mclemore and two 1sts for a fringe all-star PG who can't shoot?... that's an absolute haul.

   When you're talking about draft picks who might turn out to be all-stars someday you refer to them as franchise cornerstones, but you refer to someone who's made 4 straight all-star games as a fringe all-star. You somehow reversed those definitions in your head.

With the amount of great PGs in the NBA I highly question him getting half that many for the rest of his career.

  I spent much of the offseason hearing about how Rondo was unlikely to make any more all-star games because the other point guards were so great. Now we're seeing threads about how Jordon Crawford has a shot at being an all-star. If you've been here since 2008 or so you'd have seen numerous posts about how Rondo will never be (fill in the blank) unless he greatly improves his jump shot and ft%, with (fill in the blank) starting out as "anything other than a below average pg" and progressing through above average, having a chance at being an all-star and so on.

  Every time Rondo surpasses the previous "unattainable level" the "Rondo will never" crowd just moves on to the next prediction like nothing happened. Rondo's been in the league for quite some time. If he was as bad as his detractors imagine they'd be saying "Rondo has never done" all the time instead of saying "Rondo's unlikely to ever do" about things he's already done multiple times.

Well, let's not ignore facts though. Rondo was an injury replacement in 2012 (Joe Johnson) and was voted in by the fans last year, which the fan voting being a glorified popularity contest. Let's not act as though Rondo is a sure fire all-star. Many questioned him even being on the team last year because our record was so poor.

He stays in the East and he deals with Williams, Irving, and Wall. Goes to the West and it gets worse with Paul, Curry, Lillard, Parker, and Westbrook.

  Rondo was injured during much of the abbreviated voting in 2012, that's why he wasn't on the roster to begin with. Claiming that you shouldn't count a player's all-star appearances if they're voted in as starters? Hilarious.

Good point... calling him a "fringe all-star" isn't appropriate.   We should be calling him an "injury prone fringe all-star"

  I mentioned this before, but you refer to someone who's made the last 4 all-star teams a fringe all-star, but you refer to draft picks who might be all-stars someday as franchise cornerstones. The terms you're using don't really mean what you think they do.

Even if Rondo makes 8 all star teams staying at his career averages as they are doesn't improve his trade value, Rondos an exceptional passer who can score 13 a game over the course of a season.

Getting a prospect, salary cap relief and two 1st's for that kind of player is a great deal. Especially when hes coming off major surgery and in all likely hood will want a pay increase.

  Rondo dominates in the playoffs. Trading him for players who don't isn't a great trade. Aren't you one of the guys who's all upset that the team isn't in full tank mode? If so, you're complaining about not being in position to draft a star while also trying to trade away the star that we have. (if not, never mind)