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Author Topic: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?  (Read 4696 times)

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Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« on: December 06, 2013, 10:23:04 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Getting Asik alone , I dont think does it for us. That would put is into that nether world of being just good enough to definitely make the playoffs and drafting in the high teens. He is Rondos age and it would be OK  to get him only if we could compete in the very near future.

Getting Monroe alone makes more sense given his age and longer window to build.However....

Could we get them both without gutting the team, and does that make us contenders? If we got them both, we would have to be contenders, otherwise the heavy payroll/tax NEXT year would be prohibitive given what Asiks salary kicks to and what Monroe will command in the marketplace. In order to be contenders with Asik/Monroe we can't gut the team to get them.

I think we CAN be contenders if we got them both. If we didn't gut the team, our front court will be the deepest and arguably one of the best in the league, and we would have depth at the 1 and 2 also:

Asik/Fav
Monroe/Sully/Bass
Green/Crash
Bradley/Lee
Rondo/Crawford/Pressey

Here's a trade idea, although admittedly not a great one, that on paper would do it:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=m9tdosn

Boston gets Asik and Monroe
Detroit gets Hump, Bogans and two of Boston's firsts
Houston gets Olynyk, Villanueva, Brooks

Why for Boston: contention now and perhaps the next 5 years
Why for Detroit :they get a more than serviceable replacement PF who is also an expiring in Hump, another 5 million expiring in Bogans for a total of $17 million expiring and two firsts
Why for Houston: they get their first that they want in the form of Olynyk who would be a great fit next to Howard, an expiring in Villanueva and can have Brooks if they want him

Any other trade scenarios where we would  get Asik and Monroe without gutting the team if you think they would make us contenders or on our way to contender status in a short time ?
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2013, 10:31:59 PM »

Offline oldtype

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I'm not sure I'd want to given that it would freeze out Sullinger who has the potential to be a good starter long term and will be on cheaper money than Monroe. Given that Rondo is already due a max contract, would rather be splurging money on a different position and keeping our player.
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2013, 10:34:31 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Asik is a great defender, and having an elite defender at that position is really good.

That said, I'd rather roll forward with Sullinger and Monroe in the frontcourt, hoping they can become something like a David West + Pau Gasol combo of size and skill up there, and then have Olynyk and Faverani coming off the bench.

Probably not as good defensively, but much tougher for teams to defend.  I think you could get 35+ points a game from that starting frontcourt.
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2013, 10:43:43 PM »

Offline beantownboy171

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We will have to give up sullinger or green to get monroe. Asik, I have no idea where his value is at this point. Olynyk might actually do it.

Also if we're trading 1rst round picks at this years deadline, teams are going to want those brooklyn picks. I'm really not so sure we should trade those just yet.
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2013, 10:44:13 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Houston trade it totally and utterly unrealistic
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2013, 10:47:07 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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With PhoSita on this one
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2013, 10:47:22 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Quote from: PhoSita on December 06, 2013, 10:34:31 PM
Asik is a great defender, and having an elite defender at that position is really good.

That said, I'd rather roll forward with Sullinger and Monroe in the frontcourt, hoping they can become something like a David West + Pau Gasol combo of size and skill up there, and then have Olynyk and Faverani coming off the bench.

Probably not as good defensively, but much tougher for teams to defend.  I think you could get 35+ points a game from that starting frontcourt.

I agree that if I had to pick 1 it would be Monroe. His age is what does it for me.
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2013, 10:49:57 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Quote from: Moranis on December 06, 2013, 10:44:13 PM
Houston trade it totally and utterly unrealistic

They get their first equivalent in Olynyk whose skills very well compliment Howard and an expiring. What else do you think it would take, and would you do it?
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2013, 11:32:59 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Quote from: csfansince60s on December 06, 2013, 10:47:22 PM
Quote from: PhoSita on December 06, 2013, 10:34:31 PM
Asik is a great defender, and having an elite defender at that position is really good.

That said, I'd rather roll forward with Sullinger and Monroe in the frontcourt, hoping they can become something like a David West + Pau Gasol combo of size and skill up there, and then have Olynyk and Faverani coming off the bench.

Probably not as good defensively, but much tougher for teams to defend.  I think you could get 35+ points a game from that starting frontcourt.

I agree that if I had to pick 1 it would be Monroe. His age is what does it for me.

On board here.

My only concern again is we might have to pay Monroe the max. But other than that, two very skilled bigs playing together, sign me up.

Not a lot of athleticism there though.
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2013, 11:55:24 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Quote from: beantownboy171 on December 06, 2013, 10:43:43 PM
We will have to give up sullinger or green to get monroe.

I would happily give up Green to get Monroe.  I'd be okay throwing in Bradley too, if necessary, though I'd ask 'em to throw in Singler.
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2013, 11:57:28 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Quote from: csfansince60s on December 06, 2013, 10:47:22 PM
Quote from: PhoSita on December 06, 2013, 10:34:31 PM
Asik is a great defender, and having an elite defender at that position is really good.

That said, I'd rather roll forward with Sullinger and Monroe in the frontcourt, hoping they can become something like a David West + Pau Gasol combo of size and skill up there, and then have Olynyk and Faverani coming off the bench.

Probably not as good defensively, but much tougher for teams to defend.  I think you could get 35+ points a game from that starting frontcourt.

I agree that if I had to pick 1 it would be Monroe. His age is what does it for me.

I have two concerns. One, Monroe may be better defending PFs than Cs:

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2013/1/24/3912940/is-greg-monroe-capable-of-defending-nba-power-forwards

Now, if Sully can defend the post that is maybe not such a problem.

Second, and more worrisome from my view, is that Monroe hasn't really improved offensively from age 20-23 - a time when you'd expect a lot of improvement. He's a bit like Al Jefferson in the sense that he had terrific potential when very young, but also may be plateauing young.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01.html

That said I do like the idea of getting him as long as we don't need to give up all of our picks - I wouldn't rank him and Rondo as an elite 1/2 pair, but if we can get another star, most likely a scoring wing, we might be able to contend. It would sort of be the Indiana path, I guess.
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2013, 11:58:08 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Quote from: Yoki_IsTheName on December 06, 2013, 11:32:59 PM
Quote from: csfansince60s on December 06, 2013, 10:47:22 PM
Quote from: PhoSita on December 06, 2013, 10:34:31 PM
Asik is a great defender, and having an elite defender at that position is really good.

That said, I'd rather roll forward with Sullinger and Monroe in the frontcourt, hoping they can become something like a David West + Pau Gasol combo of size and skill up there, and then have Olynyk and Faverani coming off the bench.

Probably not as good defensively, but much tougher for teams to defend.  I think you could get 35+ points a game from that starting frontcourt.

I agree that if I had to pick 1 it would be Monroe. His age is what does it for me.

On board here.

My only concern again is we might have to pay Monroe the max. But other than that, two very skilled bigs playing together, sign me up.

Not a lot of athleticism there though.

Athleticism is overrated.  The Grizzlies have had plenty of success with a frontcourt lacking athleticism.


I'd be okay paying Monroe.  In this league, paying young, skilled big men is usually worth it.  It's when you invest heavily in the raw guys (e.g. Deandre Jordan, Larry Sanders) that you can get into trouble.  I also think that, due to his size and history of back issues, Sullinger will end up being a bit of a bargain once the Celtics need to extend him.
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2013, 12:04:21 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Quote from: Boris Badenov on December 06, 2013, 11:57:28 PM

That said I do like the idea of getting him as long as we don't need to give up all of our picks - I wouldn't rank him and Rondo as an elite 1/2 pair, but if we can get another star, most likely a scoring wing, we might be able to contend. It would sort of be the Indiana path, I guess.


I agree.  Look, getting a superstar at the top of this draft would be better.

But the way things are going, trading for a guy like Monroe -- 23 years old, projects as a second tier star -- without giving up any truly major assets might be the best we can hope for this season.

Combine that with a couple of nice players taken in the late lottery / mid-1st in what will hopefully be a deep draft as well as the decent talent already on the team (headlined by Rondo and Sullinger) and we could have a decent team on our hands in just a season or two, with a core lined up for long-term viability.  With some luck and good drafting, the team could have a year like Indiana is having now.
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2013, 12:19:06 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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I would do Green and he Clippers pick for Monroe and Billups (who would then be cut) then trade Bass and Crawford for Asik.
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Re: Can we get Asik AND Monroe without gutting the team? Makes us contenders?
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2013, 12:55:53 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Can we get only Monroe and scrap the Asik idea?

Monroe is a young big with a ton of talent and upside, could potentially develop in to a top 5 center in the NBA in time.  If he's not already on a big contract then he will be soon, but I'm OK with that because of the calibre of player he is.  He's also a very good offensive player, and offense is our biggest weakness right now.

Asik is a decent big with zero upside - he'll never be more than he is right now.  He's already on an oversized contract and is earning more than he is worth.  He's also a terrible offensive player, which is not good for us given that we are one of the bottom 10 offensive teams in the NBA. 

If we got both of these guys we would very soon end up with about 70% of our Salary cap spent on three guys - Rondo, Monroe and Asik.   Throwing Max contracts or near  max contracts on Rondo and Monroe is something I can live with given that both of those guys are (and will be for years) either All-Stars or borderline All-Stars.  Throwing >$10M on Asik is something I'm not willing to do because he will never be even close to an All-Star...right now he isn't even good enough to earn starters minutes in Houston. 

In fact I think you'd have to be an absolute moron to invest that much money long term in a guy with such little upside, especially for a team like this which is building for the future and trying to clear out bad contracts. 

Assuming we traded for Monoe we then have an All Star PG (Rondo), an excellent PF with tons of upside (Sullinger) and a borderline All Star center (Monroe).  I'd much rather then use our free cap space next year to sign a high calibre scorer at the SG or SF spot, then use our multiple draft picks to pick up some additional young talent to add to our roster.

I don't think Asik and Monroe would be any better a combination than Sullinger and Monroe to be completely honest.  Sullinger is still a very good defender and an exceptional rebounder, but his offensive game is so far superior to Asik's that it's not even funny. 
 
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