Sullinger's Interior Defense

[mmmmm]

I thought he looked terrible in preseason, but Sullinger is turning into a heck of an asset. 

It almost seems like like compares favorably to Big Al at the same age (21).  Is Sullinger a better asset than 21 year old Big Al?

I've given you the breakdown before, in another thread, but what it boils down to is that, as of this point in his career (starting his second season) Sullinger has demonstrated at least as much value and potential as Big Al had at the same point.   Arguably more with the significant difference that Sully earned a starting spot on a playoff-bound team as a rookie.   Big Al managed to log slightly more minutes his rookie season (1051 in 71 games)) but Sully logged his 892 in just 45 games.  Obviously, if not for the back surgery, Sully would have blown past the number of minutes Big Al played his rookie year.

After Pierce and Tony went down, Al picked up a larger share of the statistical load and so his perceived value picked up a lot by the end of 2007, of course.

It all depends on Sully's back.

If his back is not an issue, then Sullinger overall, imho, is a more talented player than Big AL.   He shows similar potential at low-post offense, is a similarly talented rebounder and already a much better defender.  He also has a better outside shot.   Big Al has a very slight length advantage.  But Sullinger is stronger and with better footwork.

If not for his back issues, Sullinger would have been a top-of-the-draft talent, easy.  But the back issues did happen and so we got him at #21.

If other GM's perceive his back to be an ongoing concern, then that will suppress his trade value.  He may thus have more value as a keeper than as a trade item.

[dreamgreen]

I thought he looked terrible in preseason, but Sullinger is turning into a heck of an asset. 

It almost seems like like compares favorably to Big Al at the same age (21).  Is Sullinger a better asset than 21 year old Big Al?

No.  Jefferson was the first and only option on that team without Pierce/TA and responded with 16 and 11.  Sullinger is 13 and 7 with worse efficiency, and he has Green, Bass, Bradley, and Crawford all drawing attention away from him.

Jefferson was consistently drawing double teams for his squad, even at 21.  He was even scoring on double teams.  Sully doesn't draw much help period, and I don't think he's ever even seen a double team on a post up.  Rather, defenders tend to help OFF of him, leaving him with open shots, much easier than the ones Al was creating for himself.

He is starting to see some and has made great passes out of them. That is where he kills Big Al, Sully is a MUCH better passer, and his effort/desire to win is MUCH better than Big Al's.

[Jailan34]

I thought he looked terrible in preseason, but Sullinger is turning into a heck of an asset. 

It almost seems like like compares favorably to Big Al at the same age (21).  Is Sullinger a better asset than 21 year old Big Al?

No.  Jefferson was the first and only option on that team without Pierce/TA and responded with 16 and 11.  Sullinger is 13 and 7 with worse efficiency, and he has Green, Bass, Bradley, and Crawford all drawing attention away from him.

Jefferson was consistently drawing double teams for his squad, even at 21.  He was even scoring on double teams.  Sully doesn't draw much help period, and I don't think he's ever even seen a double team on a post up.  Rather, defenders tend to help OFF of him, leaving him with open shots, much easier than the ones Al was creating for himself.

He is starting to see some and has made great passes out of them. That is where he kills Big Al, Sully is a MUCH better passer, and his effort/desire to win is MUCH better than Big Al's.

I agree about Sully's mindset/attitude on the court. I've always loved Sully's game, and i expected him to continue to develop nicely this season.

What I didn't expect was to see him take this team over during RR's absence. He has become a solid offensive option and often posts himself up and demands the ball, he's trying to lead and exciting to see how far he's already come since we drafted him.

[LarBrd33]

I thought he looked terrible in preseason, but Sullinger is turning into a heck of an asset. 

It almost seems like like compares favorably to Big Al at the same age (21).  Is Sullinger a better asset than 21 year old Big Al?

No.  Jefferson was the first and only option on that team without Pierce/TA and responded with 16 and 11.  Sullinger is 13 and 7 with worse efficiency, and he has Green, Bass, Bradley, and Crawford all drawing attention away from him.

Jefferson was consistently drawing double teams for his squad, even at 21.  He was even scoring on double teams.  Sully doesn't draw much help period, and I don't think he's ever even seen a double team on a post up.  Rather, defenders tend to help OFF of him, leaving him with open shots, much easier than the ones Al was creating for himself.

I think you guys must have thought I was talking about Al Jefferson in year 3. 

Al Jefferson second year (age 21):  7.9 points, 5 rebounds, 0.5 assists, 0.8 blocks, 0.5 steals 49% shooting... 18 minutes a game.

J. Sullinger second year (age 21):  13 points, 7.9 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.4 steals, 0.6 blocks, 48% shooting... 24 minutes per game

Sullinger's Per-36 numbers this season:  19 points, 11 rebounds, 2 steals, 1 block

Big Al's Per-36 minutes at the same age:  16 points, 10 rebounds, 1 steal, 1.6 blocks

Jefferson wasn't traded until his 3rd year when he was 22 years old.   I'm saying that right now, it seems Sully might compare favorably to Big Al at the same age.  Perhaps Sully can be the key part of a big trade next season.  Combine him with some Gerald Green/Avery Bradley types, a big expiring contract... and you might be able to land an aging all-star with 3-4 years left in the tank.  There's nothing really in the league that compares to 31 year old Kevin Garnett, unfortunately.
 

[BballTim]

I thought he looked terrible in preseason, but Sullinger is turning into a heck of an asset. 

It almost seems like like compares favorably to Big Al at the same age (21).  Is Sullinger a better asset than 21 year old Big Al?

No.  Jefferson was the first and only option on that team without Pierce/TA and responded with 16 and 11.  Sullinger is 13 and 7 with worse efficiency, and he has Green, Bass, Bradley, and Crawford all drawing attention away from him.

Jefferson was consistently drawing double teams for his squad, even at 21.  He was even scoring on double teams.  Sully doesn't draw much help period, and I don't think he's ever even seen a double team on a post up.  Rather, defenders tend to help OFF of him, leaving him with open shots, much easier than the ones Al was creating for himself.

I think you guys must have thought I was talking about Al Jefferson in year 3. 

Al Jefferson second year (age 21):  7.9 points, 5 rebounds, 0.5 assists, 0.8 blocks, 0.5 steals 49% shooting... 18 minutes a game.

J. Sullinger second year (age 21):  13 points, 7.9 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.4 steals, 0.6 blocks, 48% shooting... 24 minutes per game

Sullinger's Per-36 numbers this season:  19 points, 11 rebounds, 2 steals, 1 block

Big Al's Per-36 minutes at the same age:  16 points, 10 rebounds, 1 steal, 1.6 blocks

Jefferson wasn't traded until his 3rd year when he was 22 years old.   I'm saying that right now, it seems Sully might compare favorably to Big Al at the same age.  Perhaps Sully can be the key part of a big trade next season.  Combine him with some Gerald Green/Avery Bradley types, a big expiring contract... and you might be able to land an aging all-star with 3-4 years left in the tank.  There's nothing really in the league that compares to 31 year old Kevin Garnett, unfortunately.

  If you think Sully compares favorably to Al it stands to reason he'd bring back more in a trade. Also, if there is a trade it doesn't have to closely resemble the KG trade, where we trade similar assets for a similar player at a similar point in his career.

[Celtics4ever]

Sully was stymied down low tonight.   CLE bigs were too big for him.  He shot well from down town but that isn't going to happen every night.

[mmmmm]

Sully was stymied down low tonight.   CLE bigs were too big for him.  He shot well from down town but that isn't going to happen every night.

Well, we didn't really even go there very much.  With the way others were scoring, the match ups were elsewhere.  Bradley had a field day getting easy shots off Irving's smile-&-wave defense and Green obviously was getting everywhere on the court he needed to.  Sully only took 4 shots inside the 3PT arc.

If anything, his shooting from outside probably helped with providing space for Green, Bradley and Crawford to attack inside by forcing his big man defender to step out of the paint with him.

[Celtics4ever]

Well, we didn't really even go there very much.

We didn't go there much because he would have got destroyed.  Varejo is no gimpy old man Duncan on D.  I seen Sully get some boards and shots down low and he was definitely affected by CLE length.   Granted he gave up a lot of size to Bynum.   He went outside which is a what a smart player does and took what they gave him.   But to think he is a low post monster, this may raise some concerns from time to time.  Sideshow Bob ate him up on the boards.  He ate up KG a lot too and is a good player.

[mmmmm]

Well, we didn't really even go there very much.

We didn't go there much because he would have got destroyed.  Varejo is no gimpy old man Duncan on D.  I seen Sully get some boards and shots down low and he was definitely affected by CLE length.   Granted he gave up a lot of size to Bynum.   He went outside which is a what a smart player does and took what they gave him.   But to think he is a low post monster, this may raise some concerns from time to time.  Sideshow Bob ate him up on the boards.  He ate up KG a lot too and is a good player.

Varejao is an excellent player, but he was not matched up on Sully all that much in this game.  They only overlapped for a few minutes.  Stevens made a point of putting Vitor on AV a lot and I think Vitor overall did a very good job, grabbing 9 boards and scoring 6 points himself. 

I don't think Sully was bothered at all by Bynum's size.  Sully pushed him wherever he wanted.  Indeed Bynum looked far more frustrated with his inability to get anything going against Sullinger.  Every shot Bynum took he was getting blocked out of his comfort range and pushed off balance.

[Celtics4ever]

I don't think Sully was bothered at all by Bynum's size.  Sully pushed him wherever he wanted.  Indeed Bynum looked far more frustrated with his inability to get anything going against Sullinger.  Every shot Bynum took he was getting blocked out of his comfort range and pushed off balance.

He was on the putbacks.  1 Offensive rebound.  4 Rebounds total, yeah he was pushing him around and dominating the boards.  NOT! I love the Celtics but I don't let my love cloud my eyes on box score or watching the game.

He was bothered.  Bynum I might add is a few shades shy of a gimp.  Against healthy Bynum, Sully would have got one board.

[timpiker]

I like Sully a lot and think DA got an absolute steal in that draft.

Last night's Cavs game was curious though - in the 1st half Sully was outasite then the 2nd half, not so much (not counting the 3's)...I'm focusing on rebounding and D.

I know he got 3 fouls in the 1st half and that may have had something to do with it but it sure was disappointing.

[Celtics4ever]

He is a steal too I think.  But every player has his limitations.  I didn't think he looked as solid down low last night.  He seemed bothered by the length.   It's not the end of the world, he went outside and hit some jumpers and we won hands down.

[CFAN38]

Great at the pushing part not so great at the rim protection.

Duncan in his prime would have licked his chops to have got off a guy as earthbound as Sully.

I agree with the push not rim protection. Sully with continued development should be a good team defender. He will never have the physical tool to be an elite defender but his strength will allow him to hold his own in individual matchups.