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Author Topic: Do we really need to tank......  (Read 11373 times)

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Do we really need to tank......
« on: November 09, 2013, 03:46:33 PM »

Offline DesertDweller

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to get us to where we want to be???

This, of course, is just my opinion but I believe we have a bunch of very talented young players that will improve dramaticly with this coach. this team, just the way it is now, with Rondo at 100% is a 40 game winner. I think our present personnel, with a few tweeks, led by Rajon Rondo can bring us the future championships we want without having to tank for some unpredictable lottery pick. you will destroy this whole core of young players by trying to instill in them that the way to win later is to lose now!!!
We are having some success of late and coach Stevens hasn't even finished throwing stuff on the wall to see what sticks.
Tonight's game with the Heat is probably not a good barometer to go by because it's the second of back to back away games but I still think the C's will hang in there.
We all know Jeff Green plays when he wants to but tonight, in these type of tough games, this is the night we need Jeff to be a leader and take it to Miami!!!
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Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2013, 03:49:15 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I agree.  We don't need to tank. 
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DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson
Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2013, 03:50:41 PM »

fitzhickey

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who on this team could lead us to a championship?
Green is far too inconsistent.
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Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2013, 03:52:07 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Quote from: DesertDweller on November 09, 2013, 03:46:33 PM
to get us to where we want to be???

This, of course, is just my opinion but I believe we have a bunch of very talented young players that will improve dramaticly with this coach. this team, just the way it is now, with Rondo at 100% is a 40 game winner. I think our present personnel, with a few tweeks, led by Rajon Rondo can bring us the future championships we want without having to tank for some unpredictable lottery pick. you will destroy this whole core of young players by trying to instill in them that the way to win later is to lose now!!!
We are having some success of late and coach Stevens hasn't even finished throwing stuff on the wall to see what sticks.
Tonight's game with the Heat is probably not a good barometer to go by because it's the second of back to back away games but I still think the C's will hang in there.
We all know Jeff Green plays when he wants to but tonight, in these type of tough games, this is the night we need Jeff to be a leader and take it to Miami!!!

Yes and no. Our personnel as is with Rondo at 100% has no shot at a championship this year or in the future. We don't necessarily need to tank to get there though. We can, and should, use our assets to land a few big pieces. We have Humpries expiring contract, as well as a 10 million dollar trade exception, a large number of 1st round picks, and some promising young players in Olynyk, Sullinger, Bradley, and even Faverani that when packaged with picks and salary relief should be able to bring back some key pieces in the right moment.

We could also go the other way and trade Rondo once he shows he's healthy and land more salary relief and draft picks and totally rebuild. Neither option requires tanking.
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Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2013, 03:53:26 PM »

Offline Robert24

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Because why not be a first round exit in the Playoffs for years? Yeah, great idea. Let's be in the worst situation you can be in in the NBA.
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Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2013, 03:59:12 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Quote from: RMolloy24 on November 09, 2013, 03:53:26 PM
Because why not be a first round exit in the Playoffs for years? Yeah, great idea. Let's be in the worst situation you can be in in the NBA.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that's what they want to see.  You may think that if we don't tank this season, perpetually mediocrity will be our immutable destiny, but of course there's no hard evidence to support that opinion. 
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DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson
Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2013, 04:02:50 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Quote from: fitzhickey on November 09, 2013, 03:50:41 PM
who on this team could lead us to a championship?
Green is far too inconsistent.

  I'd go with the player who's led the team on deep playoff runs in the past. He'll be back soon enough.
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Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2013, 04:03:20 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Quote from: Celtics18 on November 09, 2013, 03:59:12 PM
Quote from: RMolloy24 on November 09, 2013, 03:53:26 PM
Because why not be a first round exit in the Playoffs for years? Yeah, great idea. Let's be in the worst situation you can be in in the NBA.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that's what they want to see.  You may think that if we don't tank this season, perpetually mediocrity will be our immutable destiny, but of course there's no hard evidence to support that opinion.

meanwhile the hard evidence that we cannot contend with our current personnel will just continue to pile up as the season progresses
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Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2013, 04:04:22 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Quote from: BballTim on November 09, 2013, 04:02:50 PM
Quote from: fitzhickey on November 09, 2013, 03:50:41 PM
who on this team could lead us to a championship?
Green is far too inconsistent.

  I'd go with the player who's led the team on deep playoff runs in the past. He'll be back soon enough.

Just like Chris Paul lead the Hornets or Clippers to a title? I mean, that KG guy and Paul Pierce really didn't have much to do with it.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 04:10:08 PM by hpantazo »
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Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2013, 04:09:13 PM »

Offline Robert24

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Quote from: Celtics18 on November 09, 2013, 03:59:12 PM
Quote from: RMolloy24 on November 09, 2013, 03:53:26 PM
Because why not be a first round exit in the Playoffs for years? Yeah, great idea. Let's be in the worst situation you can be in in the NBA.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that's what they want to see.  You may think that if we don't tank this season, perpetually mediocrity will be our immutable destiny, but of course there's no hard evidence to support that opinion.
Well 40 wins a year doesn't scream contender to me. That's mediocre and if we keep the guys we have now for years after as our core, that's what we'll always be. Mediocre. Anyways, I doubt this team can even get that with Rondo. 30-35 wins sounds more realistic.
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Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2013, 04:10:25 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Quote from: hpantazo on November 09, 2013, 04:03:20 PM
Quote from: Celtics18 on November 09, 2013, 03:59:12 PM
Quote from: RMolloy24 on November 09, 2013, 03:53:26 PM
Because why not be a first round exit in the Playoffs for years? Yeah, great idea. Let's be in the worst situation you can be in in the NBA.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that's what they want to see.  You may think that if we don't tank this season, perpetually mediocrity will be our immutable destiny, but of course there's no hard evidence to support that opinion.

meanwhile the hard evidence that we cannot contend with our current personnel will just continue to pile up as the season progresses

I'm not saying that I think we can contend for a title with our current personnel.  I am saying that I think we can turn this core into a contender without having to tank to do so. 
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DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson
Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2013, 04:10:40 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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No.
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Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2013, 04:17:27 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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How is this even an argument?  One side says they want this on the Celtics:

Star freshman forward Julius Randle led five Wildcats in double figures with a devastating debut: 23 points and 15 rebounds, five on the offensive glass, in 26 minutes. He finished two shy in both points (Terrence Jones) and rebounds (Sam Bowie) of school records for a first career game.

"Julius Randle is a specimen," UNC-Asheville coach Nick McDevitt said. "He is very, very good. Rarely do you see a guy with that kind of size and athleticism and skill level. Coach Cal's going to have fun coaching him."

And the other side says that all we need is for Pressy, Crawford, Brooks, Lee, Humphries, Gerald Wallace, Brooks, Bradley and Iversen to have a "winning attitude." 
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Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2013, 04:19:48 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Quote from: Celtics18 on November 09, 2013, 04:10:25 PM
Quote from: hpantazo on November 09, 2013, 04:03:20 PM
Quote from: Celtics18 on November 09, 2013, 03:59:12 PM
Quote from: RMolloy24 on November 09, 2013, 03:53:26 PM
Because why not be a first round exit in the Playoffs for years? Yeah, great idea. Let's be in the worst situation you can be in in the NBA.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that's what they want to see.  You may think that if we don't tank this season, perpetually mediocrity will be our immutable destiny, but of course there's no hard evidence to support that opinion.

meanwhile the hard evidence that we cannot contend with our current personnel will just continue to pile up as the season progresses

I'm not saying that I think we can contend for a title with our current personnel.  I am saying that I think we can turn this core into a contender without having to tank to do so.

I agree that we do not need to tank, but it would require moving a large number of the players that most people on here would consider the core group, possibly including Rondo, if we ever want to contend.

It's like saying the 2007 team could have contended with Pierce, Al Jefferson, Jeff Green, Rondo, Delonte West, Gerald Green, and Ryan Gomes, yet some people here really thought they could have.

People underestimate the impact that an elite big man like KG and a premier shooting guard like Ray Allen have on a team. We need the next KG type of a big man to anchor our defense and score in the paint if we want to contend, as well as a go to guy who can shoot well, and shoot over defenders, as well as create his own shot.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 04:25:04 PM by hpantazo »
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Re: Do we really need to tank......
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2013, 04:22:33 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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Clearly tanking and drafting is not the only way to build a championship team (see Celtics circa 2007).  At this point though and with the way this team is currently constituted, I think drafting appears to be the next step or next phase of the rebuild.

I don't think the current personnel along with the draft picks, is going to get back the kind of talent we need if we try to trade our way back.  We are going to need to draft the talent and then maybe trade some of the later picks down the road.

With that in mind, I think we will more likely trade away talent in the near term, potentially sacrificing wins this season but hopefully getting back younger, cheaper talent that is less developed.  Not sure if that qualifies as tanking.

We do need to play hard and try to win every game with whatever personnel we have on hand though.  Trading current talent for future talent is one thing.  Not playing hard or not putting the best available players on the court during a game is another.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 05:29:40 PM by Vermont Green »
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