Author Topic: Teams that may want Rondo  (Read 34806 times)

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Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2013, 12:35:30 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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The dude really is a freak out there, especially when he's dialed in.

Fact. Also fact: He's rarely 'dialed in' between October and March, at least if the game isn't nationally televised.

Id bet 15 points and 10 assists personally, if his recovery goes well. He really does seem to be something different when he feels like everyone is rooting against him.

The rebounding, that I disagree with. He's a great rebounder as a point, but I bet if you looked at his rebounding numbers through a statistical lens, you'd see a few big games, that slanted the numbers upwards. Sustaining 8 boards a game in the regular season from the point position is a feat Rondo just won't touch.

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Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #91 on: October 17, 2013, 12:42:45 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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FWIW, I'll predict he averages a 13/10/4/1 steal over 58 games this year, including his inevitable hot streaks and rust.

So, essentially playing the way he played last year, and putting him in some pretty good company:

http://bkref.com/tiny/OwQ44
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Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #92 on: October 17, 2013, 12:44:39 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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The greater point is that you need an elite scorer or an elite big man.  Often you need both.  There's really no examples of teams that won titles, because their PG got a lot of assists.  It's about the bigs and the dudes who can put the ball in the bucket.

Rondo's a good talent.  He can be the 2nd or 3rd best player on a contender.  He doesn't make a lot of sense on a 26 win lotto squad that is a half decade away from relevance... which is why the media keeps writing about how it's the "worst kept secret in the NBA" that Rondo will be traded this season.  My random guess is Indiana.   I figure it has to be a team that is competitive already and could use an upgrade at PG. 

It's a short list.  There's teams like Memphis that would probably be content hanging onto Mike Conley.  Denver would be fine hanging onto Ty Lawson.  Lotto teams don't want Rondo for the same reason Boston will trade Rondo.  At some point we'll probably just have to take what we can get.

Ah, yes, the media keeps repeating something Jalen Rose and Bill Simmons said because they want people to pay attention to their boring show.

That seems like staunch evidence that Rondo's getting traded. 

What's it been, about three years now that you've been convinced a Rondo trade was right around the corner?
Did I ever think a Rondo trade was right around the corner? 

I seem to remember bringing up the fact that we couldnt' land Chris Paul.  It was reported that the Lakers turned us down in a Pau trade.  It was reported the the Warriors turned us down in a Steph Curry trade (before Curry broke out... he was injured at the time).  At no point was a Rondo trade "right around the corner", but some folks seemed to report that he was in discussions.

But yeah, it's not just Simmons/Rose who think ROndo is getting traded this year.  There's been pretty constant speculation that Boston will trade him as soon as he proves he's healthy. FOr example... Marc Stein a couple weeks ago: Boston Celtics 'have to trade' Rajon Rondo, and 'everyone in basketball knows it' ...

If you wanna be mad at someone, don't be mad at me.  Far bigger fish than me beating this drum.  Do you feel like you're at all in denial?  Seriously.

When Marc Stein says "everyone in basketball knows it", do you assume he's imagining things?

I honestly think he was just making things up, much like you are doing. 

I'm not mad at anybody.

Marc Stein and Bill Simmons arent the only guys saying this stuff. Its pretty widespread, and just about every Celtics preview that looks at the team in-depth for the season speculates in some fashion about a Rondo trade.

That's not to say its imminent by any kind of means. Just that its a prevalent thought.

It's not happening.  Most of these writers are brain-dead hacks who spit out the phrase "Rondo must be traded" the same way a parrot says "Polly wanna cracker."  They heard it somewhere so they think their role is to repeat it.

To be fair, if they heard it somewhere, that's a source saying that Rondo should/will/might/may be traded.

Furthermore, those are the same brain-dead hacks that put Rondo on the MVP ballot, as you so fondly pointed out.

When I say they heard it somewhere, what I mean is they heard it from another sports writer, who made it up, and then they repeat it.  They sure didn't hear it from Danny Ainge or anyone connected to the Celtics front office. 

Marc Stein's quote was, "they have to trade Rajon Rondo.  You know it, I know it, everyone in basketball knows it."  This  was written in his short season rankings blurb, and comes across much more as a guy trying to be cute and clever than someone who actually is basing this on any kind of insider knowledge. 

Once it became clear that Rajon Rondo wasn't going to act like the pouty baby that everybody was projecting him to act like now that the rebuilding process has begun, the murmurs about Rondo being traded started to die down. 

They've resurfaced a little bit lately thanks to Jalen and Bill's goofy act, but I doubt there's any more truth to it than there ever was.

I predict that Rondo stays.  I'm guessing I have about as much insider knowledge as Bill Simmons, Jalen Rose, and Marc Stein; that is to say, none.

So you're certain that none of those guys heard anything about trading Rondo from anyone in the Celtics front office, despite the fact that you've admitted that you have no connection to the Celtics front office?

Well I believe that the cream cheese cures cancer, despite the fact that I have no ties to either the dairy industry or that medical field.

Despite what you might think, sports writers don't generally just pull things out of thin air to generate coverage. At least, the ones that don't work for Bleacher Report.

We have differing opinions about that, then.  I do think that sports writers make things up out of thin air to generate coverage all the time.  I also think that the sports following public often has a hard time making the distinction between an opinion piece by a sports writer and a piece that presents itself as real speculation based on insider knowledge.  In this day of voluminous internet media, these guys are producing stuff all the time that is just their opinions on stuff.

That doesn't necessarily make them bad guys in my opinion (despite my snarky tone towards them earlier), but when a well-respected guy like Marc Stein writes a line about Rondo getting traded which when looked at in context is obviously an opinion piece, and the rest of the internet responds with "rumors from Marc Stein say that Rondo is getting traded," then these things can easily take on a life on their own. 

Believe it or not, we amateur sports bloggers and posters are a part of the sports media, as well.  We repeat the stuff written by the guys getting paid to write it, and others pick it up like its fact.  The bottom line is that when it comes to NBA trade rumors, it definitely seems wisest to follow the old adage, "don't believe everything you read."
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PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
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C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #93 on: October 17, 2013, 12:49:43 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Op-eds, or opinion editorials, are not the same as reporting, and the good writers differentiate between the two. On the flip side, most compelling op-eds are rooted in fact.

I guess I should full disclosure here in regards to my response: I write about sports professionally (but not the NBA).
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2013, 12:54:36 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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FWIW, I'll predict he averages a 13/10/4/1 steal over 58 games this year, including his inevitable hot streaks and rust.

So, essentially playing the way he played last year, and putting him in some pretty good company:

http://bkref.com/tiny/OwQ44

If you make it 13, 11, and 5 instead (what Rondo averaged last season), only Chris Paul's and Magic Johnson's names appear with Rondo on that list (Paul once, as well--Magic, a bunch of times).
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 01:01:28 AM by Celtics18 »
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2013, 01:05:29 AM »

Online blink

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FWIW, I'll predict he averages a 13/10/4/1 steal over 58 games this year, including his inevitable hot streaks and rust.

So, essentially playing the way he played last year, and putting him in some pretty good company:

http://bkref.com/tiny/OwQ44

If you make it 13, 11, and 5 instead (what Rondo averaged last season), only Chris Paul's and Magic Johnson's names appear with Rondo on that list (Paul once, as well--Magic, a bunch of times).

thanks for posting that d.o.s. 
the one that really stuck out at me:
Magic in 88-89 averaged 22.5 pts / 12.8 assists / 7.9 rebounds per game. 

wow

Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2013, 01:08:36 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Op-eds, or opinion editorials, are not the same as reporting, and the good writers differentiate between the two. On the flip side, most compelling op-eds are rooted in fact.

I guess I should full disclosure here in regards to my response: I write about sports professionally (but not the NBA).

That does not exclude you from being Gary Tanguay.

Edit: You're Rick Riley, aren't you?

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2013, 01:18:06 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Op-eds, or opinion editorials, are not the same as reporting, and the good writers differentiate between the two. On the flip side, most compelling op-eds are rooted in fact.

I guess I should full disclosure here in regards to my response: I write about sports professionally (but not the NBA).

That does not exclude you from being Gary Tanguay.

Edit: You're Rick Riley, aren't you?

No, but I did have a Native American roommate once. So clearly I've got the credentials to say that the Washington football team should...
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #98 on: October 17, 2013, 07:20:22 AM »

Offline BballTim

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I'll accept that it "remains to be seen" whether he can return to his prime after returning from surgery.  I believe that he can.

RE Rondo and MVP voting, its a wholly subjective exercise, that I don't think does much for your argument here. He was 8th in voting in 2012, tallying 2 4th place votes and 6 5th place votes. So basically, 8 people out of a potential 121 voters thought he was a top-5 player. However, they only go 1-5, so while we see the guys who think he's an elite NBA player, the guys who would've voted him 21st, or 50th (cuz there will be 'that guy' as well) aren't counted.

ESPN's top-100 list is more useful. They poll 1000 people, and they rate every NBA player, then organize the list from highest rated to lowest rated. In that setting, he's rated 27th heading into this next season. Previously he was rated 12th, and before that 17th.



O.K., so the last time he was healthy, he finished 12th in that ESPN poll.  I don't think it's outside the range of possibility that if he returns to full health and plays the way he did for the '11-'12 season that he could move up two spots in that poll.

Or, would you guys be happier if I referred to him as a top 12 player instead of a top 10 player?

Its not outside the realm of pastability, but its not the most probable outcome.

He's got a bad year (by the standards set my the playoffs he was coming off of and his overall growth the previous seasons) overall against him from last season, on top of that major injury, on top of that major team overhaul with significantly less talent, brand new coach...

  Rondo wasn't having a bad year last season. He started out the year in the middle of his assist streak (13 assists/game in Nov) and was playing very well when he was injured (15/7/10 in Jan despite struggling with injuries). PP/JG/Jet (struggling with injuries) were playing poorly for long stretches in the first half of the season and quite a few people had trouble figuring out that was somehow different from Rondo playing poorly but his play was pretty good.
Rondo didn't play bad last season.  He was having his best statistical season ever.  It was a Rondo-centric offense and he was given a free pass to load up on the assists.  I didn't really mind it.  He looked good.  Unfortunately, the team just sucked under his leadership and they were below .500 when he went out.  They then decided to share the ball and dug themselves out of the hole.

Right. Statistically, especially by counting stats, he looked good. In the context of how the team played with him on the floor dominating the ball, it was pretty poor. Worst WS/48 since his rookie year, and a remarkable and unexpected improvement when he left the lineup. That can be rationalized however one may want to do so, but its a definite mark against, and excellent grounds for discounting him wholesale as a top-10 player in the league.

  Sure, the other players on the team played poorly early in the season. The defense struggled while integrating all of the new players and was terrible when KG was on the bench and 3 of the main offensive players struggled with injuries. If you hold Rondo responsible for that or (as was the case with many of his detractors) were/are unaware of those things then it's definitely a black mark against Rondo. On the other hand, the way the team performed in the playoffs in 2013 compared to the previous year (with Rondo) would have cancelled out that mark against him.

Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #99 on: October 17, 2013, 07:49:50 AM »

Offline BballTim

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The dude really is a freak out there, especially when he's dialed in.

Fact. Also fact: He's rarely 'dialed in' between October and March, at least if the game isn't nationally televised.

  That's not a fact, it's more like a myth that came from the fact that he has more triple doubles during the playoffs than he did during the regular season. Look at his last 3-4 seasons. At or near the top of the league in assists/game each year. At or near the top of the league in rebounding for point guards each year. 1st or 2nd team all-defense each year. All-star each year. 3rd or 4th among point guards in all-nba voting each year.

  Aside from Rondo I'd guess the only point guard in the last 40 years that could hope to accomplish that when they were "rarely dialed in" would be Magic. Can you think of any others?

Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #100 on: October 17, 2013, 08:13:49 AM »

Offline winsomme

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The dude really is a freak out there, especially when he's dialed in.

Fact. Also fact: He's rarely 'dialed in' between October and March, at least if the game isn't nationally televised.

  That's not a fact, it's more like a myth that came from the fact that he has more triple doubles during the playoffs than he did during the regular season. Look at his last 3-4 seasons. At or near the top of the league in assists/game each year. At or near the top of the league in rebounding for point guards each year. 1st or 2nd team all-defense each year. All-star each year. 3rd or 4th among point guards in all-nba voting each year.

  Aside from Rondo I'd guess the only point guard in the last 40 years that could hope to accomplish that when they were "rarely dialed in" would be Magic. Can you think of any others?

Rondo is a top tier player in the league, and I would love to have him moving forward. At the same time, I don't want him to increase our win total this season to take us out of the hunt for a top 2014 pick...

He definitely is a quandary because if we could go into next season with:

current young talent (Sully,KO,AB,etc)
Rondo/Green
top 5 pick in 2014 draft
cap space
future #1s

We would have essentially rebuilt in one season because Danny should be able to turn that mixture of assets into a contender. I'm just worried that Rondo knocks out the top 5 pick.

Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #101 on: October 17, 2013, 08:17:43 AM »

Offline BballTim

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The greater point is that you need an elite scorer or an elite big man.  Often you need both.  There's really no examples of teams that won titles, because their PG got a lot of assists.  It's about the bigs and the dudes who can put the ball in the bucket.

Rondo's a good talent.  He can be the 2nd or 3rd best player on a contender.  He doesn't make a lot of sense on a 26 win lotto squad that is a half decade away from relevance... which is why the media keeps writing about how it's the "worst kept secret in the NBA" that Rondo will be traded this season.  My random guess is Indiana.   I figure it has to be a team that is competitive already and could use an upgrade at PG. 

It's a short list.  There's teams like Memphis that would probably be content hanging onto Mike Conley.  Denver would be fine hanging onto Ty Lawson.  Lotto teams don't want Rondo for the same reason Boston will trade Rondo.  At some point we'll probably just have to take what we can get.

Ah, yes, the media keeps repeating something Jalen Rose and Bill Simmons said because they want people to pay attention to their boring show.

That seems like staunch evidence that Rondo's getting traded. 

What's it been, about three years now that you've been convinced a Rondo trade was right around the corner?
Did I ever think a Rondo trade was right around the corner? 

I seem to remember bringing up the fact that we couldnt' land Chris Paul.  It was reported that the Lakers turned us down in a Pau trade.  It was reported the the Warriors turned us down in a Steph Curry trade (before Curry broke out... he was injured at the time).  At no point was a Rondo trade "right around the corner", but some folks seemed to report that he was in discussions.

But yeah, it's not just Simmons/Rose who think ROndo is getting traded this year.  There's been pretty constant speculation that Boston will trade him as soon as he proves he's healthy. FOr example... Marc Stein a couple weeks ago: Boston Celtics 'have to trade' Rajon Rondo, and 'everyone in basketball knows it' ...

If you wanna be mad at someone, don't be mad at me.  Far bigger fish than me beating this drum.  Do you feel like you're at all in denial?  Seriously.

When Marc Stein says "everyone in basketball knows it", do you assume he's imagining things?

I honestly think he was just making things up, much like you are doing. 

I'm not mad at anybody.

Marc Stein and Bill Simmons arent the only guys saying this stuff. Its pretty widespread, and just about every Celtics preview that looks at the team in-depth for the season speculates in some fashion about a Rondo trade.

That's not to say its imminent by any kind of means. Just that its a prevalent thought.

It's not happening.  Most of these writers are brain-dead hacks who spit out the phrase "Rondo must be traded" the same way a parrot says "Polly wanna cracker."  They heard it somewhere so they think their role is to repeat it.

To be fair, if they heard it somewhere, that's a source saying that Rondo should/will/might/may be traded.

Furthermore, those are the same brain-dead hacks that put Rondo on the MVP ballot, as you so fondly pointed out.

When I say they heard it somewhere, what I mean is they heard it from another sports writer, who made it up, and then they repeat it.  They sure didn't hear it from Danny Ainge or anyone connected to the Celtics front office. 

Marc Stein's quote was, "they have to trade Rajon Rondo.  You know it, I know it, everyone in basketball knows it."  This  was written in his short season rankings blurb, and comes across much more as a guy trying to be cute and clever than someone who actually is basing this on any kind of insider knowledge. 

Once it became clear that Rajon Rondo wasn't going to act like the pouty baby that everybody was projecting him to act like now that the rebuilding process has begun, the murmurs about Rondo being traded started to die down. 

They've resurfaced a little bit lately thanks to Jalen and Bill's goofy act, but I doubt there's any more truth to it than there ever was.

I predict that Rondo stays.  I'm guessing I have about as much insider knowledge as Bill Simmons, Jalen Rose, and Marc Stein; that is to say, none.

So you're certain that none of those guys heard anything about trading Rondo from anyone in the Celtics front office, despite the fact that you've admitted that you have no connection to the Celtics front office?

Well I believe that the cream cheese cures cancer, despite the fact that I have no ties to either the dairy industry or that medical field.

Despite what you might think, sports writers don't generally just pull things out of thin air to generate coverage. At least, the ones that don't work for Bleacher Report.

  There must have been some fairly drastic changes at the Bleacher Report since the last time I went to the site, but admittedly that's been a while.

Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #102 on: October 17, 2013, 08:58:58 AM »

Offline chambers

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For those that think Rondo is a top 10 player in his prime, which team that has one of those other top 10 players would trade that player for Rondo straight up?

Personally I think he's probably top 20 in his prime, but I've never seen him play without amazing teammates in his prime.

Compare his team mates to Chris Paul's for the first 6 years of their careers. If Rondo is on the Hornets and the Clippers is he anywhere near a top 20 player?
I doubt it...
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Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #103 on: October 17, 2013, 09:09:08 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Compare his team mates to Chris Paul's for the first 6 years of their careers. If Rondo is on the Hornets and the Clippers is he anywhere near a top 20 player?
I doubt it...

  Put Rondo on the Hornets and he'd have been more of the focus of the offense and putting up bigger numbers than he generally has in his career. Put Rondo on the Clippers and they might do worse during the regular season but they'd probably have done better in the playoffs.

Re: Teams that may want Rondo
« Reply #104 on: October 17, 2013, 07:05:21 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Hard to say, especially owing to Chris Paul's knee injury.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.