Kobe vs TMac

[celticdog]

Here are some great TMac vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ov5Pu578cc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUvGIYJeurg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te5i60RqWYU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DwxncygNms

[rondoallaturca]

The video still on the last video posted above with T-Mac dropping Harpring to the ground is awesome. Considering his size, the handles T-Mac had were simply incredible.

[syfy9]

T-Mac's peak season:

32 points, 6.5 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 1.7 steals, 46%/39%/79%

Kobe's peak season:

30 points, 6.9 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 2.2 steals, 45%/38%/84%

I think they were pretty even

Kobe had multiple debatable peak seasons.

I'd go with his 35.4 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.8 steals, 45%/35%/85% season instead.

[Eja117]

From a basketball perspective we're talking about a guy who had zero playoff success vs a guy who had more than almost anyone. Almost.

[TheTruthFot18]

T-mac never had a prime he had his best season when he was 23(If I remember correctly).

And his 23-year old campaign is quite dominant compared to Kobe's 23-year old campaign. Having grown up as a Laker fan (long story, I live in SoCal), I can say without any bias that if T-Mac stayed healthy, he would be seen as this generation's best SG, and not Kobe.

You grew up a Laker fan and you'd still pick KneeMac? I'm surprised this is even a conversation.

[nickagneta]

Kobe by far.

Kobe had that killer mentality, that massive competitive spirit, the will to win no matter what. T-Mac was missing that.

Scottie Pippen was a great player that could be elite in a lot of different areas. But he was no Michael Jordan. T-Mac and Kobe would follow that comparison, IMHO.

[rondoallaturca]

You grew up a Laker fan and you'd still pick KneeMac? I'm surprised this is even a conversation.

Absolutely. Offensively, T-Mac was as good of a shooter as Kobe was, but with arguably better range. With his greater length and athleticism, T-Mac could penetrate defenses easier, finish around the rim better, and draw fouls like no other. T-Mac was less selfish, had greater court vision, and was able to make his teammates better. Defensively, Kobe did better with the tools he had, but T-Mac's greater size and length meant that he could defend more positions effectively, and his post defense was seriously underrated. It's not to mention T-Mac was simply flat out more fun to watch.

It's true that Kobe had better work ethic and a much bigger desire to win, but the fact that T-Mac is comparable despite putting significantly less effort into working on his body and his game speaks volumes about the level of raw talent he had.

[nickagneta]

It's true that Kobe had better work ethic and a much bigger desire to win, but the fact that T-Mac is comparable despite putting significantly less effort into working on his body and his game speaks volumes about the level of raw talent he had.

Perhaps if he put more effort into working on his body and game this hypothetical debate wouldn't be hypothetical.

But it is hypothetical because TMac didn't have the drive or work effect or killer instinct or determination that Kobe had. The difference in a great player and an all-time great player has less to do with the physical aspect of the game and more to do with the mental aspect of the game than most people realize. This comparison is proof positive of that.

[Boris Badenov]

You grew up a Laker fan and you'd still pick KneeMac? I'm surprised this is even a conversation.

Absolutely. Offensively, T-Mac was as good of a shooter as Kobe was, but with arguably better range. With his greater length and athleticism, T-Mac could penetrate defenses easier, finish around the rim better, and draw fouls like no other. T-Mac was less selfish, had greater court vision, and was able to make his teammates better. Defensively, Kobe did better with the tools he had, but T-Mac's greater size and length meant that he could defend more positions effectively, and his post defense was seriously underrated. It's not to mention T-Mac was simply flat out more fun to watch.

It's true that Kobe had better work ethic and a much bigger desire to win, but the fact that T-Mac is comparable despite putting significantly less effort into working on his body and his game speaks volumes about the level of raw talent he had.

I think if you're just comparing "raw talent" - whatever that means - you have a much stronger case.

But I'm with Nick above. If you have to pick one guy at his peak and ask who will give you a better shot at a ring, it's Kobe hands down due to his competitiveness.

[rondoallaturca]

I think if you're just comparing "raw talent" - whatever that means - you have a much stronger case.

But I'm with Nick above. If you have to pick one guy at his peak and ask who will give you a better shot at a ring, it's Kobe hands down due to his competitiveness.

I disagree. Similar to talent only carrying you so far, the same applies for competitiveness. In the seasons Kobe peaked, he played some of his most selfish basketball yet. Yes he wanted to win, but he put too much emphasis on himself and himself only. In some instances, Kobe could even be seen as a detriment to his own team. That's a big reason why despite having less drive than Kobe, T-Mac is still my preferred choice.

[Boris Badenov]

I think if you're just comparing "raw talent" - whatever that means - you have a much stronger case.

But I'm with Nick above. If you have to pick one guy at his peak and ask who will give you a better shot at a ring, it's Kobe hands down due to his competitiveness.

I disagree. Similar to talent only carrying you so far, the same applies for competitiveness. In the seasons Kobe peaked, he played some of his most selfish basketball yet. Yes he wanted to win, but he put too much emphasis on himself and himself only. In some instances, Kobe could even be seen as a detriment to his own team. That's a big reason why despite having less drive than Kobe, T-Mac is still my preferred choice.

What if you define Kobe's peak seasons as the ones in which he played least selfishly? It doesn't have to be based just on numbers, does it?

[rondoallaturca]

What if you define Kobe's peak seasons as the ones in which he played least selfishly? It doesn't have to be based just on numbers, does it?

Well that sort of defeats the purpose of the thread. The premise is considering the players in their prime.

[Boris Badenov]

What if you define Kobe's peak seasons as the ones in which he played least selfishly? It doesn't have to be based just on numbers, does it?

Well that sort of defeats the purpose of the thread. The premise is considering the players in their prime.

I think it's completely consistent with the thread. Why can't leadership, unselfishness or other intangibles be part of what defines a player's prime?

[CelticConcourse]

What if you define Kobe's peak seasons as the ones in which he played least selfishly? It doesn't have to be based just on numbers, does it?

Well that sort of defeats the purpose of the thread. The premise is considering the players in their prime.

I think it's completely consistent with the thread. Why can't leadership, unselfishness or other intangibles be part of what defines a player's prime?

If ya go by assist numbers, he basically had the most in his career last season but I'm not sure anybody would say that 2012-13 was Kobe's prime. Nuh-uh. Prime would be when he was most athletic.

[rondoallaturca]

I think it's completely consistent with the thread. Why can't leadership, unselfishness or other intangibles be part of what defines a player's prime?

So is Steve Nash in his prime right now?