Avery is our starting shooting guard. always has been, always will be.

[LooseCannon]

Believe it or not, Lee is actually in Bradley's ballpark in terms of defensive ability

I actually do not believe this.

[CelticAZ]

played out of position for most of last year and had two shoulders that were on the mend.  I have a hard time holding AB to last year.

I still think AB has a lot left as a SG and will continue to do well with a healthy Rondo when he returns (that is if Rondo isn't traded).  The Celtics will also be better off because AB has more experience playing PG though I hope it is never needed again.

When Rondo and AB were healthy everyone was excited that the Celtics backcourt was young, talented, and had a high ceiling.  Let's not forget that because of a year that was affected or lost due to injuries.

[rondoallaturca]

Believe it or not, Lee is actually in Bradley's ballpark in terms of defensive ability

I actually do not believe this.

This past year, Bradley gave up 1.05 points per possession. Lee gave up 1.04. Advantage: Lee, though not by much

This past year, Bradley's defensive win shares was 1.6. Lee's was 2.4. Advantage: Lee, significantly

Furthermore, last year, as a team, the C's had only two lineup combinations that allowed less than .90 points per possession allowed (which is incredible). Both of them included only Lee, not Bradley. On the flip side, last year, as a team, the C's worst defensive lineup combination gave up 1.16 points per possession allowed. That lineup combination included only Bradley, not Lee.

Of course, certain conditions must be considered. Bradley obviously has a reputation as a defensive stalwart; it can be entirely possible that he would be put in whenever the opponent's star guard was on the floor. Furthermore, Lee's spot in the rotation constantly jumbled around, and it's very likely he faced the opponent's second unit far more than Bradley did. In addition, Bradley was coming off shoulder injuries last year.

Obviously, those things simply can't be accounted for. Looking at the stats though, it's clear that Lee is no joke on defense, and it isn't far fetched at all to say that he's not that far behind (or even on the level of) Bradley.

[LooseCannon]

Believe it or not, Lee is actually in Bradley's ballpark in terms of defensive ability

I actually do not believe this.

This past year, Bradley gave up 1.05 points per possession. Lee gave up 1.04. Advantage: Lee, though not by much

If that's how you are interpreting Defensive Rating, you're doing it wrong.  That's what the team is doing while the player is on the floor, not a measure of individual defense.

My Synergy Sports has some interesting numbers.  For individual defense, Bradley gives up 0.73 points per possession, while Lee gives up 0.87.  Bradley is better on isolations, against the pick and roll, on post-ups, against spot-up shooters....

I believe that Courtney Lee is an above-average defender, but that Avery Bradley is significantly better.

[BudweiserCeltic]

not a problem when hes guarding the wade's of the world

he couldn't even handle the Raymond Felton's of the world this past year.

Not because of size, but simply he didn't put his usual defensive effort for some reason. Theories, given an ill advised bigger role as our PG... though not a good excuse.

But Avery didn't put the defensive effort we've seen from him through his whole career. It was one of the most disappointing things to witness.

If the guy got beat, he gets beat... you move on, but when you underperform because your effort isn't there, it's just inexcusable.

[rondoallaturca]

Believe it or not, Lee is actually in Bradley's ballpark in terms of defensive ability

I actually do not believe this.

This past year, Bradley gave up 1.05 points per possession. Lee gave up 1.04. Advantage: Lee, though not by much

If that's how you are interpreting Defensive Rating, you're doing it wrong.  That's what the team is doing while the player is on the floor, not a measure of individual defense.

My Synergy Sports has some interesting numbers.  For individual defense, Bradley gives up 0.73 points per possession, while Lee gives up 0.87.  Bradley is better on isolations, against the pick and roll, on post-ups, against spot-up shooters....

I believe that Courtney Lee is an above-average defender, but that Avery Bradley is significantly better.

Team defense is still defense, is it not? A player's influence on the team's defense is still very valuable.

I checked Synergy, and you're correct with those numbers, and it absolutely doesn't surprise me. Again, Lee and Bradley are both great defenders, but it's undeniable Bradley's a much more tenacious on-ball defender. That being said, I think we reached a conclusion that validates my earlier statements.

Lee is a good defender, but is also able to contribute on the offensive end. Bradley is a great defender, but is able to contribute very little on the offensive end. For all the love Bradley gets as opposed to all the hate that Lee receives, it's just not justified. Basketball is still a two-way street, and even though Bradley is young and has room to grow, it's doubtful he becomes that much of a better player than Lee.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Believe it or not, Lee is actually in Bradley's ballpark in terms of defensive ability

I actually do not believe this.

This past year, Bradley gave up 1.05 points per possession. Lee gave up 1.04. Advantage: Lee, though not by much

If that's how you are interpreting Defensive Rating, you're doing it wrong.  That's what the team is doing while the player is on the floor, not a measure of individual defense.

My Synergy Sports has some interesting numbers.  For individual defense, Bradley gives up 0.73 points per possession, while Lee gives up 0.87.  Bradley is better on isolations, against the pick and roll, on post-ups, against spot-up shooters....

I believe that Courtney Lee is an above-average defender, but that Avery Bradley is significantly better.

I found both those posts interesting. Agree they're both above-average, Bradley probably "better" in broader variety of situations.

The main concern I had with Lee was his mentality. He seems to over-think things, become easily anxious or rattled, which affects both ends on the floor. I remember someone here posted that they went to a game during the season and thought, up close, that Lee looked "very shaky" throughout. Made a lot of sense, pretty validating.

edit: Rondoallaturca, I wouldn't be surprised to find out this is a primary reason people hate on Lee. May be the reason he lost his PT at the end of the year as well?

[bfrombleacher]

Believe it or not, Lee is actually in Bradley's ballpark in terms of defensive ability

I actually do not believe this.

This past year, Bradley gave up 1.05 points per possession. Lee gave up 1.04. Advantage: Lee, though not by much

If that's how you are interpreting Defensive Rating, you're doing it wrong.  That's what the team is doing while the player is on the floor, not a measure of individual defense.

My Synergy Sports has some interesting numbers.  For individual defense, Bradley gives up 0.73 points per possession, while Lee gives up 0.87.  Bradley is better on isolations, against the pick and roll, on post-ups, against spot-up shooters....

I believe that Courtney Lee is an above-average defender, but that Avery Bradley is significantly better.

Team defense is still defense, is it not? A player's influence on the team's defense is still very valuable.

I checked Synergy, and you're correct with those numbers, and it absolutely doesn't surprise me. Again, Lee and Bradley are both great defenders, but it's undeniable Bradley's a much more tenacious on-ball defender. That being said, I think we reached a conclusion that validates my earlier statements.

Lee is a good defender, but is also able to contribute on the offensive end. Bradley is a great defender, but is able to contribute very little on the offensive end. For all the love Bradley gets as opposed to all the hate that Lee receives, it's just not justified. Basketball is still a two-way street, and even though Bradley is young and has room to grow, it's doubtful he becomes that much of a better player than Lee.

There's so many variables. Was a very tumultuous year.

AB came back just about when Rondo went out. Maybe KG had to carry more of the load. Our defense was basically...KG. Rondo also plays good D. Jason Terry got more minutes, killing our D. Rotations were a-changing.

[GreenEnvy]

Lee and Bradley are both unimpressive.

I'd package Lee with Humphries' expiring and Bradley with Wallace or Bass.

Ainge needs to get busy. This current roster is neither good nor horrid.

I don't even believe they will be that exciting to watch 3-4 times a week.

[rondoallaturca]

I found both those posts interesting. Agree they're both above-average, Bradley probably "better" in broader variety of situations.

The main concern I had with Lee was his mentality. He seems to over-think things, become easily anxious or rattled, which affects both ends on the floor. I remember someone here posted that they went to a game during the season and thought, up close, that Lee looked "very shaky" throughout. Made a lot of sense, pretty validating.

And you can thank Doc Rivers for that. No one can confidently say that Lee could find his groove at any point last season. Doc is a guy who expects players to adjust to his system, and not the other way around, and Lee's one of those guys who just didn't really fit. Do you blame Lee? I hardly think that's fair. Even a veteran like Jason Terry found himself uncomfortable and shut out in Doc's system, and he wound up having one of his worst seasons ever. I think we'll be seeing a much more confident Lee this season with Doc out of town.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Believe it or not, Lee is actually in Bradley's ballpark in terms of defensive ability

I actually do not believe this.

This past year, Bradley gave up 1.05 points per possession. Lee gave up 1.04. Advantage: Lee, though not by much

If that's how you are interpreting Defensive Rating, you're doing it wrong.  That's what the team is doing while the player is on the floor, not a measure of individual defense.

My Synergy Sports has some interesting numbers.  For individual defense, Bradley gives up 0.73 points per possession, while Lee gives up 0.87.  Bradley is better on isolations, against the pick and roll, on post-ups, against spot-up shooters....

I believe that Courtney Lee is an above-average defender, but that Avery Bradley is significantly better.

Team defense is still defense, is it not? A player's influence on the team's defense is still very valuable.

I checked Synergy, and you're correct with those numbers, and it absolutely doesn't surprise me. Again, Lee and Bradley are both great defenders, but it's undeniable Bradley's a much more tenacious on-ball defender. That being said, I think we reached a conclusion that validates my earlier statements.

Lee is a good defender, but is also able to contribute on the offensive end. Bradley is a great defender, but is able to contribute very little on the offensive end. For all the love Bradley gets as opposed to all the hate that Lee receives, it's just not justified. Basketball is still a two-way street, and even though Bradley is young and has room to grow, it's doubtful he becomes that much of a better player than Lee.

There's so many variables. Was a very tumultuous year.

AB came back just about when Rondo went out. Maybe KG had to carry more of the load. Our defense was basically...KG. Rondo also plays good D. Jason Terry got more minutes, killing our D. Rotations were a-changing.

Sorry, but Rondo's D last year was horrible. When Bradley returned, they both looked very good together defensively, but other than that, Rondo was a disaster defensively whether it be from injuries (which he had some) or effort, or fatigue. But as critical as I've been of his defense philosophy, last year was by far his worst showing of his career in this department.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I found both those posts interesting. Agree they're both above-average, Bradley probably "better" in broader variety of situations.

The main concern I had with Lee was his mentality. He seems to over-think things, become easily anxious or rattled, which affects both ends on the floor. I remember someone here posted that they went to a game during the season and thought, up close, that Lee looked "very shaky" throughout. Made a lot of sense, pretty validating.

And you can thank Doc Rivers for that. No one can confidently say that Lee could find his groove at any point last season. Doc is a guy who expects players to adjust to his system, and not the other way around, and Lee's one of those guys who just didn't really fit. Do you blame Lee? I hardly think that's fair. Even a veteran like Jason Terry found himself uncomfortable and shut out in Doc's system, and he wound up having one of his worst seasons ever. I think we'll be seeing a much more confident Lee this season with Doc out of town.

I agree with you, especially since it wasn't just Lee that had a difficult adjustment. Doc never seemed to do any one favors - he seemed invested in only a few (big 3) and made decisive decisions about newcomers very quickly.

[lightspeed5]

avery haters are weird. He was given 2nd team  all defensive team for a reason, because hes a great defender. it wasnt shananigans. its crazy how our own fans turn against a great player we have.

[Galeto]

I found both those posts interesting. Agree they're both above-average, Bradley probably "better" in broader variety of situations.

The main concern I had with Lee was his mentality. He seems to over-think things, become easily anxious or rattled, which affects both ends on the floor. I remember someone here posted that they went to a game during the season and thought, up close, that Lee looked "very shaky" throughout. Made a lot of sense, pretty validating.

And you can thank Doc Rivers for that. No one can confidently say that Lee could find his groove at any point last season. Doc is a guy who expects players to adjust to his system, and not the other way around, and Lee's one of those guys who just didn't really fit. Do you blame Lee? I hardly think that's fair. Even a veteran like Jason Terry found himself uncomfortable and shut out in Doc's system, and he wound up having one of his worst seasons ever. I think we'll be seeing a much more confident Lee this season with Doc out of town.

Doc was especially ignorant with Terry.  How about not using a 14 year vet whose game has been built around shooting off the dribble like Ray Allen just because off-the-ball movement plays were in the playbook.  It blew my mind that Doc tried to make Jason Terry into Ray Allen.  Why sign Terry and say he'd bring the pick and roll ability they wanted to supplement Rondo and Pierce if they weren't going to use him in that manner for most of the season?

And just as stupidly, Doc actually designed plays so that Terry would have to dribble to his left.  For his entire career, defenses have tried to force Terry to his left hand because of how he shoots over his right ear and there was Doc, doing the work of the defense for the opponent.  Just a simple thing like having Terry dribble toward a screen from the left side of the court couldn't be implemented.  This isn't rocket science. 

[LooseCannon]

MSS gives Rondo 0.77 PPP.

I find the potential of a Rondo-Bradley backcourt intriguing and very much want to see them get an extended run together while healthy.  It might not work out, but it might be one of those things which make you adjust your view of what is possible.