Report: Pistons Interested In Rondo If He Becomes Available

[byennie]

HoF might be a bit bold, but at the same time, he was one of the most effective 19 year-olds in league history last year (and he won't even turn 20 until next month).

Dude was putting up 15/15/3 per 40 as a teenager, it's not crazy to think he could average that in a regular starting role within the next couple of years. If he gets substantially better, look out.

HoF is hard to project even for young All-Stars, but Drummond could very well be a top-3 center for the next 10 years if he simply stays on course.

[Roy H.]

Dude was putting up 15/15/3 per 40 as a teenager, it's not crazy to think he could average that in a regular starting role within the next couple of years. If he gets substantially better, look out.

Only one teenager in the history of the NBA put up 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 3 assists per 40 minutes.  His name?

Kendrick Perkins.

[hpantazo]

Dude was putting up 15/15/3 per 40 as a teenager, it's not crazy to think he could average that in a regular starting role within the next couple of years. If he gets substantially better, look out.

Only one teenager in the history of the NBA put up 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 3 assists per 40 minutes.  His name?

Kendrick Perkins.

where are the stats for this? Which season did it happen in, because from Perks 1st 4 seasons, he wasn't even close to those numbers from what I can see.

[Roy H.]

Dude was putting up 15/15/3 per 40 as a teenager, it's not crazy to think he could average that in a regular starting role within the next couple of years. If he gets substantially better, look out.

Only one teenager in the history of the NBA put up 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 3 assists per 40 minutes.  His name?

Kendrick Perkins.

where are the stats for this? Which season did it happen in, because from Perks 1st 4 seasons, he wasn't even close to those numbers from what I can see.

'03-'04.

Josh McRoberts came close once, too.

What does this mean?  Not a lot, other than that "Per 40" stats don't mean a heck of a lot.

[hpantazo]

Dude was putting up 15/15/3 per 40 as a teenager, it's not crazy to think he could average that in a regular starting role within the next couple of years. If he gets substantially better, look out.

Only one teenager in the history of the NBA put up 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 3 assists per 40 minutes.  His name?

Kendrick Perkins.

where are the stats for this? Which season did it happen in, because from Perks 1st 4 seasons, he wasn't even close to those numbers from what I can see.

'03-'04.

Josh McRoberts came close once, too.

What does this mean?  Not a lot, other than that "Per 40" stats don't mean a heck of a lot.

Perk averaged 3 minutes per game that season and played 10 games total. You cannot compare that to someone who averaged over 20 minutes per game for the whole season. Cherry picking stats is not a fair comparison. Comparing Drummond's rookie PER to Dwight Howard's is a much more sensible comparison, considering the minutes and games each played, and Drummond's numbers are equal or better.

Come on Roy, I know you know better than that.

[rondoallaturca]

Dude was putting up 15/15/3 per 40 as a teenager, it's not crazy to think he could average that in a regular starting role within the next couple of years. If he gets substantially better, look out.

Only one teenager in the history of the NBA put up 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 3 assists per 40 minutes.  His name?

Kendrick Perkins.

where are the stats for this? Which season did it happen in, because from Perks 1st 4 seasons, he wasn't even close to those numbers from what I can see.

'03-'04.

Josh McRoberts came close once, too.

What does this mean?  Not a lot, other than that "Per 40" stats don't mean a heck of a lot.

Perk averaged 3 minutes per game that season and played 10 games total. You cannot compare that to someone who averaged over 20 minutes per game for the whole season. Cherry picking stats is not a fair comparison. Comparing Drummond's rookie PER to Dwight Howard's is a much more sensible comparison, considering the minutes and games each played, and Drummond's numbers are equal or better.

Come on Roy, I know you know better than that.

TP

[Roy H.]

Dude was putting up 15/15/3 per 40 as a teenager, it's not crazy to think he could average that in a regular starting role within the next couple of years. If he gets substantially better, look out.

Only one teenager in the history of the NBA put up 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 3 assists per 40 minutes.  His name?

Kendrick Perkins.

where are the stats for this? Which season did it happen in, because from Perks 1st 4 seasons, he wasn't even close to those numbers from what I can see.

'03-'04.

Josh McRoberts came close once, too.

What does this mean?  Not a lot, other than that "Per 40" stats don't mean a heck of a lot.

Perk averaged 3 minutes per game that season and played 10 games total. You cannot compare that to someone who averaged over 20 minutes per game for the whole season. Cherry picking stats is not a fair comparison. Comparing Drummond's rookie PER to Dwight Howard's is a much more sensible comparison, considering the minutes and games each played, and Drummond's numbers are equal or better.

Where do you draw the line?

It's okay to look at a guy who averaged 20 minutes per game, and double his production by amplifying that to Per-40 numbers?

I also don't think it's terribly legit to say "Player X had similar per-minute numbers to Player Y at the same age, so they project similarly".

Anthony Davis had a better PER at age 19 than Kevin Garnett (and Kobe and Lebron, too).  What does that tell us?  What about Thad Young having a similar (and better) PER at the same age than Kevin Durant?

You can continue to be condescending toward me, or you can realize that there are various ways to cherry pick statistics, and PER comparisons and per-40 projections are a long, long way from infallible.

[hpantazo]

Dude was putting up 15/15/3 per 40 as a teenager, it's not crazy to think he could average that in a regular starting role within the next couple of years. If he gets substantially better, look out.

Only one teenager in the history of the NBA put up 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 3 assists per 40 minutes.  His name?

Kendrick Perkins.

where are the stats for this? Which season did it happen in, because from Perks 1st 4 seasons, he wasn't even close to those numbers from what I can see.

'03-'04.

Josh McRoberts came close once, too.

What does this mean?  Not a lot, other than that "Per 40" stats don't mean a heck of a lot.

Perk averaged 3 minutes per game that season and played 10 games total. You cannot compare that to someone who averaged over 20 minutes per game for the whole season. Cherry picking stats is not a fair comparison. Comparing Drummond's rookie PER to Dwight Howard's is a much more sensible comparison, considering the minutes and games each played, and Drummond's numbers are equal or better.

Where do you draw the line?

It's okay to look at a guy who averaged 20 minutes per game, and double his production by amplifying that to Per-40 numbers?

I also don't think it's terribly legit to say "Player X had similar per-minute numbers to Player Y at the same age, so they project similarly".

Anthony Davis had a better PER at age 19 than Kevin Garnett (and Kobe and Lebron, too).  What does that tell us?  What about Thad Young having a similar (and better) PER at the same age than Kevin Durant?

PER, like any other stat, is more accurate with a larger sample size, so the more minutes a guy plays, and the more games he plays, the more accurate the estimate of what he would average over 40 minutes is. 3 minutes is useless. 15 is on the border of where I would draw the line for any meaningfulness, and 20, as Drummond averaged is reasonable. Of course, Drummond's 20 minutes per game stats are not as accurate a prediction of Dwight's 32 minute per game stats in terms of predicting their 40 minute per game averages, but it's certainly a heck of a lot more accurate than someone who played 3 minutes per game in only 10 games of garbage time.


btw, I did not mean to be condescending, I apologize if it seemed so, what I meant is I know you understand stats and player values much better than most people, so I know you were just trying to make an argument against Drummond regardless, which is of course your choice to do so. I am making the argument on the other side in hopefully a reasonable way.

[Roy H.]

Dude was putting up 15/15/3 per 40 as a teenager, it's not crazy to think he could average that in a regular starting role within the next couple of years. If he gets substantially better, look out.

Only one teenager in the history of the NBA put up 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 3 assists per 40 minutes.  His name?

Kendrick Perkins.

where are the stats for this? Which season did it happen in, because from Perks 1st 4 seasons, he wasn't even close to those numbers from what I can see.

'03-'04.

Josh McRoberts came close once, too.

What does this mean?  Not a lot, other than that "Per 40" stats don't mean a heck of a lot.

Perk averaged 3 minutes per game that season and played 10 games total. You cannot compare that to someone who averaged over 20 minutes per game for the whole season. Cherry picking stats is not a fair comparison. Comparing Drummond's rookie PER to Dwight Howard's is a much more sensible comparison, considering the minutes and games each played, and Drummond's numbers are equal or better.

Where do you draw the line?

It's okay to look at a guy who averaged 20 minutes per game, and double his production by amplifying that to Per-40 numbers?

I also don't think it's terribly legit to say "Player X had similar per-minute numbers to Player Y at the same age, so they project similarly".

Anthony Davis had a better PER at age 19 than Kevin Garnett (and Kobe and Lebron, too).  What does that tell us?  What about Thad Young having a similar (and better) PER at the same age than Kevin Durant?

PER, like any other stat, is more accurate with a larger sample size, so the more minutes a guy plays, and the more games he plays, the more accurate the estimate of what he would average over 40 minutes is. 3 minutes is useless. 15 is on the border of where I would draw the line for any meaningfulness, and 20, as Drummond averaged is reasonable. Of course, Drummond's 20 minutes per game stats are not as accurate a prediction of Dwight's 32 minute per game stats in terms of predicting their 40 minute per game averages, but it's certainly a heck of a lot more accurate than someone who played 3 minutes per game in only 10 games of garbage time.

Sure, larger sample sizes produce more accurate results.

However, PER comparisons as a analytical tool just aren't persuasive.  It's not legit to say "Player A and Player B had similar PERs at the same age, so they project similarly".

At the same age, rookies Mareese Speights and Charles Barkley had nearly identical PERs.  As mentioned above, Thad Young had a better PER than Kevin Durant.  A lot of these numbers just don't mean a lot.

[hpantazo]

Dude was putting up 15/15/3 per 40 as a teenager, it's not crazy to think he could average that in a regular starting role within the next couple of years. If he gets substantially better, look out.

Only one teenager in the history of the NBA put up 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 3 assists per 40 minutes.  His name?

Kendrick Perkins.

where are the stats for this? Which season did it happen in, because from Perks 1st 4 seasons, he wasn't even close to those numbers from what I can see.

'03-'04.

Josh McRoberts came close once, too.

What does this mean?  Not a lot, other than that "Per 40" stats don't mean a heck of a lot.

Perk averaged 3 minutes per game that season and played 10 games total. You cannot compare that to someone who averaged over 20 minutes per game for the whole season. Cherry picking stats is not a fair comparison. Comparing Drummond's rookie PER to Dwight Howard's is a much more sensible comparison, considering the minutes and games each played, and Drummond's numbers are equal or better.

Where do you draw the line?

It's okay to look at a guy who averaged 20 minutes per game, and double his production by amplifying that to Per-40 numbers?

I also don't think it's terribly legit to say "Player X had similar per-minute numbers to Player Y at the same age, so they project similarly".

Anthony Davis had a better PER at age 19 than Kevin Garnett (and Kobe and Lebron, too).  What does that tell us?  What about Thad Young having a similar (and better) PER at the same age than Kevin Durant?

PER, like any other stat, is more accurate with a larger sample size, so the more minutes a guy plays, and the more games he plays, the more accurate the estimate of what he would average over 40 minutes is. 3 minutes is useless. 15 is on the border of where I would draw the line for any meaningfulness, and 20, as Drummond averaged is reasonable. Of course, Drummond's 20 minutes per game stats are not as accurate a prediction of Dwight's 32 minute per game stats in terms of predicting their 40 minute per game averages, but it's certainly a heck of a lot more accurate than someone who played 3 minutes per game in only 10 games of garbage time.

Sure, larger sample sizes produce more accurate results.

However, PER comparisons as a analytical tool just aren't persuasive.  It's not legit to say "Player A and Player B had similar PERs at the same age, so they project similarly".

I agree. There are other factors to take into account. Looking at Drummond, his body size/type, athleticism, work ethic, injury history, years of experience which determines basically how much training did he already have or not, all of these are important factors to project how he will develop.

Taking those factors into consideration, I see him as becoming more dominant than Anthony Davis and as good as a healthy Dwight Howard if his back holds up, which he already managed to injure in limited minutes in his rookie year.

If Olynyk puts up a PER like Drummond's in similar minutes, his overall projection based on all of these factors still wouldn't be as dominant for example .

[Vox_Populi]

If Drummmond ever becomes available for Rondo, not that will ever happen, I think you have to do that trade.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

from rondos REAL facebook page:


Pistons ? Are you kidding me ?

Rodney Stuckey , Charlie Villanueva , Brandon Knight , Greg Monroe to Boston.

Me , Wallace and Lee to Detroit.Please recejt Ainge !

Obviously this isn't a real trade, but I'd do that deal in a second.

We get rid of Wallace's terrible contract and pick up Monroe + Knight?  That's worth Rondo.

IDK how true the trade scenario is,or where he heard it from but Rajon posted it on his facebook and it IS rajon, that much I can guarantee.

[byennie]

20 MPG over 60 games is not cherry picking. That's 1200 minutes of basketball played at a high level. I challenge you to find an actual comparison with a teenager that played at least 75% as much.

Let's suppose that projecting from 20 minutes to 28 minutes isn't too much of a stretch.

Player A: 10.7 PPG , 10.3 RPG,  2.1 BPG
Player B: 10.4 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 1.6 BPG

Those numbers are Drummond and Garnett as rookies (Garnett played 28 MPG).

EDIT: I would rank Drummond's season as the 2nd or 3rd best ever by a teenager, after Lebron and very close with Dwight Howard. Better than Kobe, Al Jefferson, Garnett, McGrady, Marbury, and every other player I could find who had a lesser career. Am I missing anyone? Everyone in that group so far is somewhere in between All-Star and HoF. Not a sure thing, yes, but a darn good start.

EDIT2: Before the high school craze there were a few killer 20-year olds, Shaq probably being the best ever. But again I couldn't find any that didn't have pretty serious careers after that.

[byennie]

Well, I'll say this... I'm having a hard time keeping track of our cap number, however we started at $72M. It looks like we will save about $7M on the Brooklyn deal.

The supposed Detroit deal looks like it saves $4M. So we're at $61M with $33M of it in expiring deals.

Would put our core after this season at:

Bradley, Knight, Brooks, Green, Bass, Sullinger, Monroe, Olynyk, Melo
top-5 pick in 2014 (?)
Cap room for up to 2 max players
7 extra 1st rounders

That's pretty insane.

[GreenEnvy]

Well, I'll say this... I'm having a hard time keeping track of our cap number, however we started at $72M. It looks like we will save about $7M on the Brooklyn deal.

The supposed Detroit deal looks like it saves $4M. So we're at $61M with $33M of it in expiring deals.

Would put our core after this season at:

Bradley, Knight, Brooks, Green, Bass, Sullinger, Monroe, Olynyk, Melo
top-5 pick in 2014 (?)
Cap room for up to 2 max players
7 extra 1st rounders

That's pretty insane.

That would be insane indeed if the trade is legit and the math is correct.

A top 5 pick in addition to that core would really expedite the rebuild. The only problem is I don't see any good unrestricted free agents in 2014 (assumimg LeBron doesn't opt out) with that cap space. Even if we could fill up our roster with one year rentals, we'd have to pay Bradley/Monroe and may not be able to afford even one max FA, let alone 2.

Had their been a strong FA group in 2014, I'd say this trade would make Ainge look like a genius, but it may actually be a season too soon.

Here is the FA list (according to ESPN, fwiw):
http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=8589693&src=desktop


Regardless, I do the trade Rondo posted if true.