Why I don't think Rondo's getting traded.

[EJPLAYA]

The reason not to trade Rondo away right now is because you are selling low. A team is going to give up more for him when healthy and them knowing he hasn't lost anything than they would at this point. Danny isn't however not trading him because of what the fans might think. He just sent Paul Pierce packing. He sent KG packing. Both of those players are much more of an emotional tie to most Celtics fans than Rondo is. It is clear that Danny has one objective only. Bring in assets. Whether they are draft picks, or players who can be packaged. If he can do that with good value by trading Rondo he will. If he can't, he will stay. Simple as that.

 As for him saying he isn't in tank mode, that's about as believable as Rondo saying he is 100% on board with being part of a complete rebuild. Wait until he sees the Nets playing real well and his buddies being contenders. It won't take long before he is floating rumors that he wants to be traded. If it were me, I'd trade the guy ASAP. I do however defer to Danny's greater experience and knowledge...

[Vermont Green]

No way to know of course but of everything I have heard, I think Rondo gets traded to Houston.  This presupposes that Dwight Howard signs with Houston. I would put the odds of this only sightly higher than him staying in Boston and both quite a bit higher than being traded elsewhere.

I understand that most teams are not going to give up high value for Rondo's talent and flaws especially coming off injury but if Houston gets Howard, suddenly they would have a reason.  Rondo could be the key piece (albeit the 3rd piece) in big 3 for them.

What is Houston going to give us for Rondo? 

Add Chandler Parsons to Lin and Asik plus maybe the Rookie PG they drafted (2nd rnd) for Rondo and Bass.

I would be happy with that but I suspect Houston would hesitate and try to give us another young player over Parsons.  If it came down to getting DH or not, we might have the leverage to get this done on our terms.

[Nerf DPOY]

Eh, I think this forum is currently a pretty good litmus test for the fan base as a whole, and there are plenty of people here who are willing to sign up for a year or so of tanking if it means a shot at a top player.  I think Rondo has lost of lot of support among the Celtics fanbase over the last year or so -- fair or not.

I think Danny could definitely sell a Rondo trade and the ensuing bridge / tank season by holding up the dream of getting a guy like Wiggins, Parker, Randle, etc.

I think you're right. Most fans understand the nature of rebuilding and have patience, and the ones that don't are likely fickle enough to come back to the team once things start looking positive again.

Not to hijack the thread because this is sort of along the lines of the thrust of the OP's point, but would you rather have Rondo and a slim chance at a top pick but most likely between 3-10, or no Rondo and a decent chance at 1-3 and assuredly 2 picks in the top 7? I'm leaning towards keeping Rondo and rolling the dice because I feel like most drafts turn out to be a tease and it would leave us the flexibility to still build around him/Green.

I don't think NOT wanting to see a team intentionally lose means you're fickle.

I could argue that you are just as fickle if you intentionally want to see your team lose, instead of win.

As soon as I read what I wrote I knew it would come off a lot more offensive and condescending than I meant it. I was more referring to the types that discover the C's the day of the KG('07) trade, and the types that will say " Man, the Celtics really lost their way" over the next few lean years. They'll be back in (whatever the year) when it's obvious the C's are on the rise again, not people like you who just see the future differently.

BTW, I don't want them to intentionally lose games like the Black Sox, I just want them to be restored to "contenders" while still able to allow my head to hit the pillow at night. Allowing Rondo plenty of time to come back is not a conflict for me.

[CelticG1]

Th e whole "tanking" arguement is ridiculous.

We don't have to lose games on purpose but ainge can do whatever he wants and still claim they aren't taking.

Getting money off the books, Rondo not part of long term plans, thought assets coming back were more valuable than Rondo etc etc.

I think most Celtics fans realize this is now going to be a fundamental rebuild with or without Rondo. We may lose a ton of games either way but it will be because the talent isn't there not because coach and players are losing on purpose.

And Danny clearly is not going to aqcuire medipcre talent just to scrape as many wins together as he can. So if he doesn't so that isn't that tanking? Shouldn't he be trying to put together a team that can win as many possible games as possible if that's the goal?

That's why either way the tanking arguement is stupid.

Not sure what you're implying. Are you saying the Celts should or shouldn't tank?

My thoughts are I think it's stupid to put together a bad team just to get a lottery pick.

Being a bad team doesn't guarantee you anything in the draft.

I'd much rather try to remain competitive than become the laughing stock of the NBA.

The Celts already tried tanking for a top pick in 1997 and 2007 and it backfired.

My point is that its not as simple as tanking or not tanking.

It may be stupid to put a crap team together in hopes of winning the lottery but I think its even more stupid to trade away a bunch of assets to get Josh smith and pay him a ton of money.

To me Im sure danny is looking to see how he can improve the team but it would be stupid tonpanic and try and get tyreke evans (holy moly), josh smith or some crap player lile that.

I'd rather him be patient. If an oppotunity presents itself awesome but if not you don't panic and get whatever scraps you can just to try your best NoT to be in the lottery.


I really don't see how this is hard. DannyDanny's probably saying "there's no way I'm overpaying for Big al, josh, evans, gordon or any of those crap players"

He's not going to be putting half ass band aids on our team. Now if Danny continually does this year after year ill be annoyed but I don't see how someone wants to be so irrational as soon as are team just lost our coach and our identity of our team

[gpap]

Th e whole "tanking" arguement is ridiculous.

We don't have to lose games on purpose but ainge can do whatever he wants and still claim they aren't taking.

Getting money off the books, Rondo not part of long term plans, thought assets coming back were more valuable than Rondo etc etc.

I think most Celtics fans realize this is now going to be a fundamental rebuild with or without Rondo. We may lose a ton of games either way but it will be because the talent isn't there not because coach and players are losing on purpose.

And Danny clearly is not going to aqcuire medipcre talent just to scrape as many wins together as he can. So if he doesn't so that isn't that tanking? Shouldn't he be trying to put together a team that can win as many possible games as possible if that's the goal?

That's why either way the tanking arguement is stupid.

Not sure what you're implying. Are you saying the Celts should or shouldn't tank?

My thoughts are I think it's stupid to put together a bad team just to get a lottery pick.

Being a bad team doesn't guarantee you anything in the draft.

I'd much rather try to remain competitive than become the laughing stock of the NBA.

The Celts already tried tanking for a top pick in 1997 and 2007 and it backfired.

My point is that its not as simple as tanking or not tanking.

It may be stupid to put a crap team together in hopes of winning the lottery but I think its even more stupid to trade away a bunch of assets to get Josh smith and pay him a ton of money.

To me Im sure danny is looking to see how he can improve the team but it would be stupid tonpanic and try and get tyreke evans (holy moly), josh smith or some crap player lile that.

I'd rather him be patient. If an oppotunity presents itself awesome but if not you don't panic and get whatever scraps you can just to try your best NoT to be in the lottery.


I really don't see how this is hard. DannyDanny's probably saying "there's no way I'm overpaying for Big al, josh, evans, gordon or any of those crap players"

He's not going to be putting half ass band aids on our team. Now if Danny continually does this year after year ill be annoyed but I don't see how someone wants to be so irrational as soon as are team just lost our coach and our identity of our team

But there's nothing irrational about that. Don't forget Doc wanted to leave and was also an overrated coach.  I could've coached the 2008 Celtics and they still would've won the title.

As for KG and Pierce, they are getting old and their play has declined. It was time for them to go.

[LarBrd33]

There are a lot of reasons that I don't want to see Rondo traded.  I'm not going to get into those now.  If there's one thing we all seem to be agree to disagree about it's the relatively worth of Rajon Rondo. 

But, to me, the main reason I have a hard time seeing Danny decide to trade Rondo is simply that I don't think he can get away with it.  No matter what people think of Rondo, I think it's relatively unanimous that he is currently the team's best player.  Ainge has gone on record saying that the team is not going to tank.  Unless Danny can get back a player in return who is as good as Rondo right now--which seems highly unlikely, considering that he is recovering from knee surgery--I don't see how trading him away wouldn't absolutely stink of blatant tanking. 

Danny can't afford to go down that road.  He needs to put together a team that has some semblance of the appearance of being competitive.  I mean, he already traded away Pierce and Garnett.  That can be justified to some degree in that he got back some assets that will help our long-term future, but if Rondo were the next shoe to drop it would simply be too fishy. 

If he were to try to trade him away for draft picks and young, unproven players, or less talented expiring contracts, I'm guessing that the league might even decide to investigate the move as a blatant tank job.

Expect to see Rajon Rondo as a member of the Boston Celtics next season.

Sorry man I don't see it.  Teams trade their best player all the time.  It's a good way to spark a rebuild.  Bottoming out is a smart move.  Whether it's Memphis dumping Pau, Orlando dumping Dwight or New Orleans dumping Chris Paul...  you eventually put yourself in a better spot.  I mean... it takes 3-5 years, but you can put yourself in position to be good. 

My gut says Rondo has played his last game on the Celtics.  Ainge can't afford to bring him back.

[bleedGREENdon]

if rondo is traded i want the other team taking gerald wallace contract. and i want a young center in return as well as unprotected 1st.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TRADING  TOP 3 POINT GAURD HERE.

[Nerf DPOY]

There are a lot of reasons that I don't want to see Rondo traded.  I'm not going to get into those now.  If there's one thing we all seem to be agree to disagree about it's the relatively worth of Rajon Rondo. 

But, to me, the main reason I have a hard time seeing Danny decide to trade Rondo is simply that I don't think he can get away with it.  No matter what people think of Rondo, I think it's relatively unanimous that he is currently the team's best player.  Ainge has gone on record saying that the team is not going to tank.  Unless Danny can get back a player in return who is as good as Rondo right now--which seems highly unlikely, considering that he is recovering from knee surgery--I don't see how trading him away wouldn't absolutely stink of blatant tanking. 

Danny can't afford to go down that road.  He needs to put together a team that has some semblance of the appearance of being competitive.  I mean, he already traded away Pierce and Garnett.  That can be justified to some degree in that he got back some assets that will help our long-term future, but if Rondo were the next shoe to drop it would simply be too fishy. 

If he were to try to trade him away for draft picks and young, unproven players, or less talented expiring contracts, I'm guessing that the league might even decide to investigate the move as a blatant tank job.

Expect to see Rajon Rondo as a member of the Boston Celtics next season.

Sorry man I don't see it.  Teams trade their best player all the time.  It's a good way to spark a rebuild.  Bottoming out is a smart move.  Whether it's Memphis dumping Pau, Orlando dumping Dwight or New Orleans dumping Chris Paul...  you eventually put yourself in a better spot.  I mean... it takes 3-5 years, but you can put yourself in position to be good. 

My gut says Rondo has played his last game on the Celtics.  Ainge can't afford to bring him back.

These threads are going to go on all through the summer and probably a lot longer because both sides deep down know the opposition's take isn't fail safe and both sides have plenty of history backing that up.

I'm ambivalent because I really would support moving Rondo and accumulating ping pong balls but my gut is fearful that we essentially will wind up giving up an all star in his prime for nothing.

I like the flexibility of keeping Rondo and Green to possibly build around and am confident we'll stink bad enough next season to either make trades or definitively start from scratch.

[LarBrd33]

There are a lot of reasons that I don't want to see Rondo traded.  I'm not going to get into those now.  If there's one thing we all seem to be agree to disagree about it's the relatively worth of Rajon Rondo. 

But, to me, the main reason I have a hard time seeing Danny decide to trade Rondo is simply that I don't think he can get away with it.  No matter what people think of Rondo, I think it's relatively unanimous that he is currently the team's best player.  Ainge has gone on record saying that the team is not going to tank.  Unless Danny can get back a player in return who is as good as Rondo right now--which seems highly unlikely, considering that he is recovering from knee surgery--I don't see how trading him away wouldn't absolutely stink of blatant tanking. 

Danny can't afford to go down that road.  He needs to put together a team that has some semblance of the appearance of being competitive.  I mean, he already traded away Pierce and Garnett.  That can be justified to some degree in that he got back some assets that will help our long-term future, but if Rondo were the next shoe to drop it would simply be too fishy. 

If he were to try to trade him away for draft picks and young, unproven players, or less talented expiring contracts, I'm guessing that the league might even decide to investigate the move as a blatant tank job.

Expect to see Rajon Rondo as a member of the Boston Celtics next season.

Sorry man I don't see it.  Teams trade their best player all the time.  It's a good way to spark a rebuild.  Bottoming out is a smart move.  Whether it's Memphis dumping Pau, Orlando dumping Dwight or New Orleans dumping Chris Paul...  you eventually put yourself in a better spot.  I mean... it takes 3-5 years, but you can put yourself in position to be good. 

My gut says Rondo has played his last game on the Celtics.  Ainge can't afford to bring him back.

These threads are going to go on all through the summer and probably a lot longer because both sides deep down know the opposition's take isn't fail safe and both sides have plenty of history backing that up.

I'm ambivalent because I really would support moving Rondo and accumulating ping pong balls but my gut is fearful that we essentially will wind up giving up an all star in his prime for nothing.

I like the flexibility of keeping Rondo and Green to possibly build around and am confident we'll stink bad enough next season to either make trades or definitively start from scratch.

Fear not.  There's no rationalization to giving up Rondo for nothing.

A 23 year old all-star point guard who is arguably not on the same level as Rondo (when Rondo is healthy) just got traded for the best player in the draft and a 2014 1st rounder.  I know that Holiday was healthy and a bit younger, but I have to assume Danny expects Rondo to fetch the same return.

We're not going to see serious rumors until a couple weeks from now when the KG/Pierce trade becomes official...  We'll probably want to assess our assets and see if we can dump Gerald Wallace as well.  The trade might come until later in the offseason.  Dwight wasn't traded until August 11th.  We could also just hold off, wait for Rondo to get healthy (which might take half the season).. perhaps try trading him at the deadline... or just hold off and trade him next offseason after he's proven he's healthy and teams know where they are picking in the 2014 draft.

But I think it's very likely he's getting traded. He doesn't fit into a 3-5 year rebuild.  In 5 years when this team is finally ready to start winning again, Rondo will be past his prime.  Makes more sense to trade him now for guys who will be entering their prime in 5 years.


Side Note:  As Simmons points out... there actually is some rationalization to giving up Rondo for nothing... and that involves dumping bad contracts like Bass, Lee and Wallace: 

Simmons twitter:  "I'm intrigued by these Mavs-Celts rumors. Would Dallas take on the Wallace/Lee/Bass contracts with Rondo for Larkin + Marion/VC expirings?

FYI: Celts aren't moving Rondo unless they can dump multiple contracts in the trade. They want to fully bottom out while creating cap space."

[Celtics18]

Eh, I think this forum is currently a pretty good litmus test for the fan base as a whole, and there are plenty of people here who are willing to sign up for a year or so of tanking if it means a shot at a top player.  I think Rondo has lost of lot of support among the Celtics fanbase over the last year or so -- fair or not.

I think Danny could definitely sell a Rondo trade and the ensuing bridge / tank season by holding up the dream of getting a guy like Wiggins, Parker, Randle, etc.

It's true that plenty of fans would be on board, but Danny has to at least try to give the illusion that he's not tanking.  As the pro tankers have made perfectly clear, he can't just admit to doing it.  He has publicly said as much. 

Also, I don't think they've ever actually done anything about it, but the league's public stance is that tanking is against their policy, and that if they can show that it is actively done, it will be punished.

Edit:

I'm not actually sure that the league does have an anti-tanking policy.  I thought I once read that there was one, but I just did a google search for it and couldn't actually find anything.   

[Celtics18]

I doubt I'll ever be able to walk away from my addiction to the Celtics and the NBA in general, but I really think something needs to be done to address the tanking issue. 

In my opinion, it's starting to border on making the game that I love unbearable. 

[PhoSita]

I doubt I'll ever be able to walk away from my addiction to the Celtics and the NBA in general, but I really think something needs to be done to address the tanking issue. 

In my opinion, it's starting to border on making the game that I love unbearable.

I agree with you.  I wish the league would do something to change the metagame for rebuilding, and I'm in favor of trying creative options for reform.

While things stay the way they are right now, though, I'm all about winning by whatever means necessary.  As the quote in my signature relates, sometimes doing what it takes to win means doing whatever it takes to lose.

[Celtics18]

I doubt I'll ever be able to walk away from my addiction to the Celtics and the NBA in general, but I really think something needs to be done to address the tanking issue. 

In my opinion, it's starting to border on making the game that I love unbearable.

I agree with you.  I wish the league would do something to change the metagame for rebuilding, and I'm in favor of trying creative options for reform.

While things stay the way they are right now, though, I'm all about winning by whatever means necessary.  As the quote in my signature relates, sometimes doing what it takes to win means doing whatever it takes to lose.

I appear to be in minority (or at least others who feel the same way as me don't seem to be as vocal as those who are all in for rooting for losing), but I just can't do it.  I can't root for my team to lose games on purpose.  I'd rather see a team sneak into the playoffs as an eighth seed than root for them to be the worst team in the league so they can have a better chance at the lottery balls. 

[PhoSita]

I doubt I'll ever be able to walk away from my addiction to the Celtics and the NBA in general, but I really think something needs to be done to address the tanking issue. 

In my opinion, it's starting to border on making the game that I love unbearable.

I agree with you.  I wish the league would do something to change the metagame for rebuilding, and I'm in favor of trying creative options for reform.

While things stay the way they are right now, though, I'm all about winning by whatever means necessary.  As the quote in my signature relates, sometimes doing what it takes to win means doing whatever it takes to lose.

I appear to be in minority (or at least others who feel the same way as me don't seem to be as vocal as those who are all in for rooting for losing), but I just can't do it.  I can't root for my team to lose games on purpose.  I'd rather see a team sneak into the playoffs as an eighth seed than root for them to be the worst team in the league so they can have a better chance at the lottery balls.

That's fine.

When I play video games online with other people, I've never been one of those people who enjoys min/maxing -- doing whatever it takes to gain an advantage, to win at all costs.  I don't have the time or focus for that, and it seems to rob the "game" of what makes it a source of entertainment.

But as a sports fan, I'm removed enough that I can advocate extreme win-at-all-costs strategies because, well, nothing is at stake for me except the drudgery of my favorite team being a mess on the court for a year or three.

Still, as I've said elsewhere, I don't mind that so much.  I'll take new and exciting with an unknown result over reruns.  We had a really nice 5-6 year run, and now I'm willing to deal with a few years of bad basketball if it means we can get back to those heights sooner -- and hopefully stay there even longer.

[Celtics18]

I doubt I'll ever be able to walk away from my addiction to the Celtics and the NBA in general, but I really think something needs to be done to address the tanking issue. 

In my opinion, it's starting to border on making the game that I love unbearable.

I agree with you.  I wish the league would do something to change the metagame for rebuilding, and I'm in favor of trying creative options for reform.

While things stay the way they are right now, though, I'm all about winning by whatever means necessary.  As the quote in my signature relates, sometimes doing what it takes to win means doing whatever it takes to lose.

I appear to be in minority (or at least others who feel the same way as me don't seem to be as vocal as those who are all in for rooting for losing), but I just can't do it.  I can't root for my team to lose games on purpose.  I'd rather see a team sneak into the playoffs as an eighth seed than root for them to be the worst team in the league so they can have a better chance at the lottery balls.

That's fine.

When I play video games online with other people, I've never been one of those people who enjoys min/maxing -- doing whatever it takes to gain an advantage, to win at all costs.  I don't have the time or focus for that, and it seems to rob the "game" of what makes it a source of entertainment.

But as a sports fan, I'm removed enough that I can advocate extreme win-at-all-costs strategies because, well, nothing is at stake for me except the drudgery of my favorite team being a mess on the court for a year or three.

Still, as I've said elsewhere, I don't mind that so much.  I'll take new and exciting with an unknown result over reruns.  We had a really nice 5-6 year run, and now I'm willing to deal with a few years of bad basketball if it means we can get back to those heights sooner -- and hopefully stay there even longer.

That's great.  I guess we just have different philosophies about being a sports fan.