Can we stop with this tanking ?

[Texstyles]

Listen I know everyone has the right to there own opinion but hearing everyone talking about tanking does not make sense to me.  Are you not a Celtics Fan, Do you really want to see this team play horrible for a whole season?  Maybe its just me, but I'm not that kind of fan.  Lets use our assists that we have and get the best possible players to win this year and every year after.  I get it, Wiggins looks good, but I do not want to watch horrible B-Ball for a season just for a very small chance of getting him.

I just don't get it.

[PhoSita]

Fairweatherfan (now foulweatherfan) had a perfect quote for this the other day, which I think I might need to make my signature . . .

Sometimes winning games is losing.  Sometimes losing games is winning.  This year, for the Celtics, wanting the team to win in the big picture means wanting them to lose individual games.

[lightspeed5]

"t I do not want to watch horrible B-Ball for a season just for a very small chance of getting him."

because wiggins is the only good player in this draft. I guess jabari parker, the harrison twins, aaron gordon, julius randle, dakari johnson, marcus smart, james young, etc. all dont exist because wiggins is the only good player in the next draft.

even if we end up with the 9th pick, we'd likely end up with an incredible player. this is the deepest draft ever, the legendary lottery.


look at OKC, they tanked for a couple years and walked away with absolute studs. they went from a joke to a scary contender for the next decade.

[Texstyles]

"t I do not want to watch horrible B-Ball for a season just for a very small chance of getting him."

because wiggins is the only good player in this draft. I guess jabari parker, the harrison twins, aaron gordon, julius randle, dakari johnson, marcus smart, james young, etc. all dont exist because wiggins is the only good player in the next draft.

even if we end up with the 9th pick, we'd likely end up with an incredible player. this is the deepest draft ever, the legendary lottery.


look at OKC, they tanked for a couple years and walked away with absolute studs. they went from a joke to a scary contender for the next decade.

I get it, there is a lot of potential  in this upcoming draft,  but all it is, is potential at this point. I think  of the 8 you just mentioned maybe 3 become Superstars.  All the others will be equal or worst then guys like Josh Smith, Tyreke Evans.  I just think if you can get Smith or any of these top free agent via sign and trade you do it.

[gpap]

Listen I know everyone has the right to there own opinion but hearing everyone talking about tanking does not make sense to me.  Are you not a Celtics Fan, Do you really want to see this team play horrible for a whole season?  Maybe its just me, but I'm not that kind of fan.  Lets use our assists that we have and get the best possible players to win this year and every year after.  I get it, Wiggins looks good, but I do not want to watch horrible B-Ball for a season just for a very small chance of getting him.

I just don't get it.

TOTALLY agree. Trying to get into the lottery is a crap shoot with heavy emphasis on the word crap.

[bobbyv]

Watch the Nets 

[wiley]

Got a strong feeling we're not tanking!  At all!  My strong feelings are
always coreect

[LarBrd33]

Listen I know everyone has the right to there own opinion but hearing everyone talking about tanking does not make sense to me.  Are you not a Celtics Fan, Do you really want to see this team play horrible for a whole season?  Maybe its just me, but I'm not that kind of fan.  Lets use our assists that we have and get the best possible players to win this year and every year after.  I get it, Wiggins looks good, but I do not want to watch horrible B-Ball for a season just for a very small chance of getting him.

I just don't get it.

I don't blame you for not liking it.  Some people don't have patience.  Some people don't have long-term vision.  Some people just legitimately don't get it.

If you're someone who legitimately doesn't get it... hopefully I can help explain why I'm excited.

I'd gladly suffer through the 1978 (32 wins) and 1979 (29 wins) seasons... if it means I get 1980-1988... essentially 60+ wins every season, 3 Championships, 5 Finals Appearances.  That wouldn't have been possible had Boston not "bottomed out" and went for broke.

On the flip side, I'm not very anxious to go through 2000-2006 again... basically 35-45 wins every season... 4 playoff appearances.. basically also-ran status where you get eliminated in the first couple rounds of the playoffs if you make the playoffs at all.  Perpetual mediocrity.

It wasn't until we forced ourselves to bottom out in 2007 (24 wins while intentionally losing games) that we acquired the assets necessary to make a major splash and put together 2008-2011... a short-lived contender.   You don't get the opportnity to put together that short-lived contender without bottoming out in 2007.

So the question is... would you rather suffer through 6+ years of perpetual mediocrity (the Walker/Pierce years)... or would you rather bottom out for a couple years (like the late 70s) for a chance at 8+ years of being a serious title threat?

Tanking is a process, but it's an effective one.  It's how you gain gold in this league.  Gold that either turns into a star building block... or allows you to trade for a star building block.   Some people want to just stay mildly competitive with the other 16 teams that make the playoffs every year (over half the league)... and doing that you might luck into a little silver piece here and there in the draft, but probably not gold.  The gold usually gets snatched up during the top 5-8 picks in the draft.  Yeah not all of them turn into gold... but if Wonka puts a golden ticket in his Wonka Bars, there's very little chance you'll find a golden ticket in a Hershey bar.  You might get some chocolate though.  We all like chocolate.  I'm going to eat some chocolate.  Brb...  Ok I'm back.  I didn't find any Hershey's, but I found an old cadbury egg that my girlfriend gave me for Easter.  Although, Cadbury eggs are marketing by Hershey so maybe it's technically kind of a Hersheys.   MMm... Chocolate.  I think my blood sugar was low.  I hate when that happens.

Tanking is definitely the way to go right now.  Suck it up for a couple years and then we'll be looking to cash in our chips or build around the chips we have acquired...  bbl, gonna eat some chips.

[PhoSita]

Listen I know everyone has the right to there own opinion but hearing everyone talking about tanking does not make sense to me.  Are you not a Celtics Fan, Do you really want to see this team play horrible for a whole season?  Maybe its just me, but I'm not that kind of fan.  Lets use our assists that we have and get the best possible players to win this year and every year after.  I get it, Wiggins looks good, but I do not want to watch horrible B-Ball for a season just for a very small chance of getting him.

I just don't get it.

I don't blame you for not liking it.  Some people don't have patience.  Some people don't have long-term vision.  Some people just legitimately don't get it.

If you're someone who legitimately doesn't get it... hopefully I can help explain why I'm excited.

I'd gladly suffer through the 1978 (32 wins) and 1979 (29 wins) seasons... if it means I get 1980-1988... essentially 60+ wins every season, 3 Championships, 5 Finals Appearances.  That wouldn't have been possible had Boston not "bottomed out" and went for broke.

On the flip side, I'm not very anxious to go through 2000-2006 again... basically 35-45 wins every season... 4 playoff appearances.. basically also-ran status where you get eliminated in the first couple rounds of the playoffs if you make the playoffs at all.  Perpetual mediocrity.

It wasn't until we forced ourselves to bottom out in 2007 (24 wins while intentionally losing games) that we acquired the assets necessary to make a major splash and put together 2008-2011... a short-lived contender.   You don't get the opportnity to put together that short-lived contender without bottoming out in 2007.

So the question is... would you rather suffer through 6+ years of perpetual mediocrity (the Walker/Pierce years)... or would you rather bottom out for a couple years (like the late 70s) for a chance at 8+ years of being a serious title threat?

Tanking is a process, but it's an effective one.  It's how you gain gold in this league.  Gold that either turns into a star building block... or allows you to trade for a star building block.   Some people want to just stay mildly competitive with the other 16 teams that make the playoffs every year (over half the league)... and doing that you might luck into a little silver piece here and there in the draft, but probably not gold.  The gold usually gets snatched up during the top 5-8 picks in the draft.  Yeah not all of them turn into gold... but if Wonka puts a golden ticket in his Wonka Bars, there's very little chance you'll find a golden ticket in a Hershey bar.  You might get some chocolate though.  We all like chocolate.  I'm going to eat some chocolate.  Brb.  Ok I'm back.  I think my blood sugar was low.  I hate when that happens.

Tanking is definitely the way to go right now.  Suck it up for a couple years and then we'll be looking to cash in our chips or build around the chips we have acquired...  bbl, gonna eat some chips.

. . . but the 2004 Pistons prove once and for all definitively that you can win a championship without ever tanking!  We just need to duplicate what they did!

We can totally have the gain with none of the pain!

[LarBrd33]

Listen I know everyone has the right to there own opinion but hearing everyone talking about tanking does not make sense to me.  Are you not a Celtics Fan, Do you really want to see this team play horrible for a whole season?  Maybe its just me, but I'm not that kind of fan.  Lets use our assists that we have and get the best possible players to win this year and every year after.  I get it, Wiggins looks good, but I do not want to watch horrible B-Ball for a season just for a very small chance of getting him.

I just don't get it.

I don't blame you for not liking it.  Some people don't have patience.  Some people don't have long-term vision.  Some people just legitimately don't get it.

If you're someone who legitimately doesn't get it... hopefully I can help explain why I'm excited.

I'd gladly suffer through the 1978 (32 wins) and 1979 (29 wins) seasons... if it means I get 1980-1988... essentially 60+ wins every season, 3 Championships, 5 Finals Appearances.  That wouldn't have been possible had Boston not "bottomed out" and went for broke.

On the flip side, I'm not very anxious to go through 2000-2006 again... basically 35-45 wins every season... 4 playoff appearances.. basically also-ran status where you get eliminated in the first couple rounds of the playoffs if you make the playoffs at all.  Perpetual mediocrity.

It wasn't until we forced ourselves to bottom out in 2007 (24 wins while intentionally losing games) that we acquired the assets necessary to make a major splash and put together 2008-2011... a short-lived contender.   You don't get the opportnity to put together that short-lived contender without bottoming out in 2007.

So the question is... would you rather suffer through 6+ years of perpetual mediocrity (the Walker/Pierce years)... or would you rather bottom out for a couple years (like the late 70s) for a chance at 8+ years of being a serious title threat?

Tanking is a process, but it's an effective one.  It's how you gain gold in this league.  Gold that either turns into a star building block... or allows you to trade for a star building block.   Some people want to just stay mildly competitive with the other 16 teams that make the playoffs every year (over half the league)... and doing that you might luck into a little silver piece here and there in the draft, but probably not gold.  The gold usually gets snatched up during the top 5-8 picks in the draft.  Yeah not all of them turn into gold... but if Wonka puts a golden ticket in his Wonka Bars, there's very little chance you'll find a golden ticket in a Hershey bar.  You might get some chocolate though.  We all like chocolate.  I'm going to eat some chocolate.  Brb.  Ok I'm back.  I think my blood sugar was low.  I hate when that happens.

Tanking is definitely the way to go right now.  Suck it up for a couple years and then we'll be looking to cash in our chips or build around the chips we have acquired...  bbl, gonna eat some chips.

. . . but the 2004 Pistons prove once and for all definitively that you can win a championship without ever tanking!  We just need to duplicate what they did!

We can totally have the gain with none of the pain!

I'd argue that 1 aberration doesn't doesn't make it a rule.  Also, arguably the most important player on those Pistons teams was 4 time Defensive Player of the Year Ben Wallace... 4 time allstar and 5 time 1st team All-Defense during Detroit's stretch.  The highest EFF of anyone on that team.  And it's fair to note that Ben Wallace was acquired when Detroit sign-and-traded Grant Hill to the Magic, a player they only acquired through bottoming out with 20 wins and landed the #3 pick.  Hill had lead the Pistons to the playoffs 4 times in 5 years prior to that trade.

[BballTim]

Listen I know everyone has the right to there own opinion but hearing everyone talking about tanking does not make sense to me.  Are you not a Celtics Fan, Do you really want to see this team play horrible for a whole season?  Maybe its just me, but I'm not that kind of fan.  Lets use our assists that we have and get the best possible players to win this year and every year after.  I get it, Wiggins looks good, but I do not want to watch horrible B-Ball for a season just for a very small chance of getting him.

I just don't get it.

I don't blame you for not liking it.  Some people don't have patience.  Some people don't have long-term vision.  Some people just legitimately don't get it.

If you're someone who legitimately doesn't get it... hopefully I can help explain why I'm excited.

I'd gladly suffer through the 1978 (32 wins) and 1979 (29 wins) seasons... if it means I get 1980-1988... essentially 60+ wins every season, 3 Championships, 5 Finals Appearances.  That wouldn't have been possible had Boston not "bottomed out" and went for broke.

On the flip side, I'm not very anxious to go through 2000-2006 again... basically 35-45 wins every season... 4 playoff appearances.. basically also-ran status where you get eliminated in the first couple rounds of the playoffs if you make the playoffs at all.  Perpetual mediocrity.

It wasn't until we forced ourselves to bottom out in 2007 (24 wins while intentionally losing games) that we acquired the assets necessary to make a major splash and put together 2008-2011... a short-lived contender.   You don't get the opportnity to put together that short-lived contender without bottoming out in 2007.

So the question is... would you rather suffer through 6+ years of perpetual mediocrity (the Walker/Pierce years)... or would you rather bottom out for a couple years (like the late 70s) for a chance at 8+ years of being a serious title threat?

Tanking is a process, but it's an effective one.

  If you tank and get a top 5 pick you probably have about a 1 in 15 or so chance at contending for a title in the next 5-6 years. The odds on being a serious title threat for 8+ years are probably twice that bad. I don't think very many people would consider something that's that much of a long shot to be an "effective" process.

[bfrombleacher]

Listen I know everyone has the right to there own opinion but hearing everyone talking about tanking does not make sense to me.  Are you not a Celtics Fan, Do you really want to see this team play horrible for a whole season?  Maybe its just me, but I'm not that kind of fan.  Lets use our assists that we have and get the best possible players to win this year and every year after.  I get it, Wiggins looks good, but I do not want to watch horrible B-Ball for a season just for a very small chance of getting him.

I just don't get it.

I don't blame you for not liking it.  Some people don't have patience.  Some people don't have long-term vision.  Some people just legitimately don't get it.

If you're someone who legitimately doesn't get it... hopefully I can help explain why I'm excited.

I'd gladly suffer through the 1978 (32 wins) and 1979 (29 wins) seasons... if it means I get 1980-1988... essentially 60+ wins every season, 3 Championships, 5 Finals Appearances.  That wouldn't have been possible had Boston not "bottomed out" and went for broke.

On the flip side, I'm not very anxious to go through 2000-2006 again... basically 35-45 wins every season... 4 playoff appearances.. basically also-ran status where you get eliminated in the first couple rounds of the playoffs if you make the playoffs at all.  Perpetual mediocrity.

It wasn't until we forced ourselves to bottom out in 2007 (24 wins while intentionally losing games) that we acquired the assets necessary to make a major splash and put together 2008-2011... a short-lived contender.   You don't get the opportnity to put together that short-lived contender without bottoming out in 2007.

So the question is... would you rather suffer through 6+ years of perpetual mediocrity (the Walker/Pierce years)... or would you rather bottom out for a couple years (like the late 70s) for a chance at 8+ years of being a serious title threat?

Tanking is a process, but it's an effective one.

  If you tank and get a top 5 pick you probably have about a 1 in 15 or so chance at contending for a title in the next 5-6 years. The odds on being a serious title threat for 8+ years are probably twice that bad. I don't think very many people would consider something that's that much of a long shot to be an "effective" process.

Yeah.

Some teams actively tank because they're bad. Period. They don't have ANY valuable assets.

When you're bottoming out, you bottom out.

At this point I don't see why we don't continue to take every opportunity to grab whatever good asset we can in whatever form. "Oh my god that guy is too good he'll get in our way of tanking but he's not good enough to build around" should not be a concern, especially with the insane amount of picks coming our way.

When an opportunity like KG arises, we'd have the assets to act accordingly.

Right now, I don't think Ainge himself even has any idea what would happen. I feel like collecting assets, as I've said, is a consideration and a large one.

[rondoallaturca]

I like how he said "Tanking is a process, but it's an effective one" IMMEDIATELY after saying "...a chance at 8+ years of being a serious title threat". Especially when that 8+ years is not guaranteed whatsoever.

[Celtics18]

Here's the thing, those who are arguing against tanking are not saying that bottoming out and rebuilding by landing a top draft pick can't lead to a team building a title contender.  Those who are arguing for tanking, on the other hand, seem to be saying that it is the only way to build a contender.

The latter simply isn't true.  The Pistons, the Lakers, and the Mavericks are all recent examples of teams that built champions without landing top five draft picks to build their team. 

There is obviously more than one way to build a contender.  I wish the tank crowd would just say that tanking is their preferred method, as opposed to trying to make the faulty claim that it is the only method. 

[rondoallaturca]

Here's the thing, those who are arguing against tanking are not saying that bottoming out and rebuilding by landing top draft pick can't lead to a team building a title contender.  Those who are arguing for tanking, on the other hand, seem to be saying that it is the only way to build a contender.

The latter simply isn't true.  The Pistons, the Lakers, and the Mavericks are all recent examples of teams that built champions without landing top five draft picks to build their team. 

There is obviously more than one way to build a contender.  I wish the tank crowd would just say that tanking is their preferred method, as opposed to trying to make the faulty claim that it is the only method.

TP for bringing some sense into this chaos.