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Author Topic: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.  (Read 2596 times)

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2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« on: June 30, 2013, 05:19:20 PM »

Offline Sarcasma

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Can someone PLEASE make a salary chart for next year 2014/2015. I know the trade isn't official but do your best.

It seems we have two camps on this rebuild thing going on right now. The TANK camp, and the sign/trade for veterans camp. People need to THINK AHEAD. Thinking ahead is THE factor in a competent rebuild.

If you know anything about basketball, you know signing middle of the road veterans keeps you mediocre...and for a long time. Think Vin Baker, Rodney Rogers, Raef, Travis Knight, Brian Scalabrine, etc.

I'm definitely for tanking two years. Heres why. Please note, ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO STAY THE COURSE ON THIS ONE. STAYING THE COURSE REQUIRES A MAXIMUM TWO YEAR TANK. IT WILL ONLY TAKE TWO YEARS.

1. Say we sign Josh Smith, Al, Jeff, etc....thats not winning a title. Ask yourself this, if the plan is to reload with vets and make another run, WHY WOULD WE MAKE THE NETS SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER?

2. Signing said vets would keep us out of the lottery. WE WANT TO BE IN THE LOTTERY. Preferably twice in 2014 and 2015.

3. If we don't sign vets, we will have significant (near max) cap room in 2015/2016. When I say significant, I mean only Kelly Olynyk, future firsts, and  JARED SULLINGER and his $2,269,260 will likely be on the cap, as Jeff Green will probably opt out.

THE PLAN: Suck for two years, get stars in the  2014/2015 drafts. ONE year deals only. Have cap space in 2015/16. INSTANT REBUILD. Plus we have New Jerseys 2016/2018 potential lottery pics. I'm telling, if we can sign a KEVIN DURANT type with our cap-space, we still have ASSETS GALORE. That is a potential dynasty.

DECISIONS: Only tough decision coming up is how much Avery Bradleys going to want. I'm on the fence as I see him as a $5,000,000 guy, and hes going to want more.

FINAL THOUGHTS: Would you rather have Josh Smith now or a dynasty in 2016. 2015/2016, we'll have numerous first rounders, developed rookies (Sully, Kelly, 2014 pick, etc) and $40-50 million in cap space. Rondo and Jeff Green are due for extensions then, you can resign them or let them walk.... you can have a clean slate.

2015/2016 you can have 3-4 stars and what if New Jersey falls...you can add lottery picks in 2016/2018 to the potentially 3-4 stars you already have. OMG!!! DYNASTY!!!  Please note, my plan, to work, requires 2 years of not signing long term deals. One year deals only. Call it a 2 year tank or 1 2 year asset development. Also Lebron, hopefully, will start declining by this time.
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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2013, 05:36:36 PM »

Offline Atzar

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While I think rebuilding through the draft is a necessary first step, you're massively overstating the possibility that we get "3-4 stars" in the next two drafts.  If that happens, Ainge's statue should be erected in front of TD Garden.

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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2013, 05:55:09 PM »

Offline Yb2

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I am just curious. How can you garantee that we will get stars with our draft picks? I think you forget that MJ was taken third and KD was taken after a player who no longer plays in the league and the list goes on and on. And in the Oden and Durant draft we were the team with the worst record yet ended up with the fifth selection... Kobe bryant was dealt by the hornets for Vlade Divac. So why not play hard, let your players showcase their talents and maybe trade them for a high lottery pick. And by tanking players lose confidence and when time comes for them to step up, they wont be used to winning. With the right coach and smart FA pick-ups we could be a match up nightmare, maybe not this year, but defiintely next year. By tanking you have no garantee of getting parker nor wiggings. But you could always offer a package to a team that has selected one or both of them to get them on your team.
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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2013, 06:10:11 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I wouldn't expect a Kevin Durant quality FA to ever sign in Boston.

Indeed, I'd be surprised if a Carlos Boozer quality FA ever signs here.  Barring some really drastic climate change and some loosening of the tax code and how late the bars stay open, we are not a FA destination.
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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2013, 06:12:31 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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It's probably not going to work out as one or the other -- tank or trades/FAs.   Timing and luck (in draft, trades and signings) will play key roles if the C's are to get a contender back on the floor in the next 5 years. 

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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2013, 06:21:08 PM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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Once again, the proponents for tanking are making silly assumptions again.

Middle of the road vets like Vin Baker, Rodney Rogers...BRIAN SCALABRINE? All Scal jokes aside, it's laughable that to prove your point, you cleverly chose to list bust free agency acquisitions. What about the David West's? The Tony Allen's? Not to stir bad memories, but hell, even the Ray Allen's? Furthermore, you list Josh Smith and Al Jefferson, two of the arguably worst options we could pursue this offseason.

Then, you say we can bring in a KD-level talent even though our team would be full of developing young players and rebuilding assets? Yeah, okay. Good joke.

@PhoSita

Please tell me why we are not a FA destination. I am sick and tired of listening to this. Just because we haven't landed a big FA recently doesn't mean we aren't a FA destination. It only means that with the Big 3 being our main pieces both on the court and on our payrolls, we weren't in a position to try and get a FA.
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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2013, 06:22:20 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Quote from: rondoallaturca on June 30, 2013, 06:21:08 PM

@PhoSita

Please tell me why we are not a FA destination. I am sick and tired of listening to this. Just because we haven't landed a big FA recently doesn't mean we aren't a FA destination. It only means that with the Big 3 being our main pieces both on the court and on our payrolls, we weren't in a position to try and get a FA.


It's not "recently."

It's "ever."
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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2013, 06:23:18 PM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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Quote from: PhoSita on June 30, 2013, 06:22:20 PM
It's not "recently."

It's "ever."

You're telling me with a franchise of our history, currently run by a management like ours, no top FA would consider us.
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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2013, 06:29:41 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Quote from: rondoallaturca on June 30, 2013, 06:23:18 PM
Quote from: PhoSita on June 30, 2013, 06:22:20 PM
It's not "recently."

It's "ever."

You're telling me with a franchise of our history, currently run by a management like ours, no top FA would consider us.

Correct.  Because free agents in this league don't care about franchise history and generally regard management with wariness or suspicion.  And why wouldn't they?  Danny is always looking to make a deal.

Players care about who else they're going to play with, who they're going to play for (coach), and then most of all they care about where they are going to play.  How will it affect how much money they can make, how much media exposure they'll get?  What are the school districts like?  Is it a place where they can go out for a night on the town and have fun? 

Boston is not on the top of the list for many of those categories, especially now that we no longer have our star coach or any established stars other than Rondo, who is known league wide as a mercurial guy who dominates the ball and doesn't always get along with teammates.
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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2013, 06:35:58 PM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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Your only valid points are Danny Ainge always looking to make a deal, and us not having an attractive coach - or any coach, for that matter.
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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2013, 06:45:58 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Quote from: rondoallaturca on June 30, 2013, 06:35:58 PM
Your only valid points are Danny Ainge always looking to make a deal, and us not having an attractive coach - or any coach, for that matter.

So you completely reject the idea that players base where they want to play on the location itself?

The fact that we've seen Melo force his way out of Denver to go to New York, Amare leave Phoenix to go to New York, LeBron leave Cleveland to go to Miami, countless top free agents leave their first team to go to L.A., including Dwight . . . none of that registers with you?
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You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain
Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2013, 06:50:44 PM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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Quote from: PhoSita on June 30, 2013, 06:45:58 PM
So you completely reject the idea that players base where they want to play on the location itself?

The fact that we've seen Melo force his way out of Denver to go to New York, Amare leave Phoenix to go to New York, LeBron leave Cleveland to go to Miami, countless top free agents leave their first team to go to L.A., including Dwight . . . none of that registers with you?

I've also seen Westbrook and Durant be content with staying in Oklahoma City.

Look, there are guys who like the bright lights and want to move to the biggest market they can. There are others who don't. To automatically assume that every NBA player today shares the former sentiment and not the latter is incredibly ignorant in my opinion.
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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2013, 06:53:22 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Quote from: rondoallaturca on June 30, 2013, 06:50:44 PM
Quote from: PhoSita on June 30, 2013, 06:45:58 PM
So you completely reject the idea that players base where they want to play on the location itself?

The fact that we've seen Melo force his way out of Denver to go to New York, Amare leave Phoenix to go to New York, LeBron leave Cleveland to go to Miami, countless top free agents leave their first team to go to L.A., including Dwight . . . none of that registers with you?

I've also seen Westbrook and Durant be content with staying in Oklahoma City.

Look, there are guys who like the bright lights and want to move to the biggest market they can. There are others who don't. To automatically assume that every NBA player today shares the former sentiment and not the latter is incredibly ignorant in my opinion.

Think about the premise of the argument you just made.

Some stars are content to stay with their first team instead of becoming free agents and moving to a big market with bright lights.

Okay, sure.  But those stars are not going to be free agents.
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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2013, 06:57:13 PM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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Quote from: PhoSita on June 30, 2013, 06:53:22 PM
Think about the premise of the argument you just made.

Some stars are content to stay with their first team instead of becoming free agents and moving to a big market with bright lights.

Okay, sure.  But those stars are not going to be free agents.

So basically what you're saying is that the only proof I can offer you is a star who moves from a big market to a smaller one. Sounds awfully like Dwight this summer.
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Re: 2015/2016... DYNASTY INCARNATE.
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2013, 07:20:08 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Quote from: rondoallaturca on June 30, 2013, 06:57:13 PM
Quote from: PhoSita on June 30, 2013, 06:53:22 PM
Think about the premise of the argument you just made.

Some stars are content to stay with their first team instead of becoming free agents and moving to a big market with bright lights.

Okay, sure.  But those stars are not going to be free agents.

So basically what you're saying is that the only proof I can offer you is a star who moves from a big market to a smaller one. Sounds awfully like Dwight this summer.

Really the only proof you can offer me is a big free agent going to Boston.  Because it hasn't ever happened.  In the history of the franchise.

The Dwight thing is interesting.  We'll see if he actually goes to Houston.  If he does, that would definitely be the case of talent choosing to join talent. 

Houston does have the plus of being a warm weather city in a state with very low taxes, though.  That helps a lot.

Look, the next time we have a young superstar top 10 talent on our team, we'll be in a much better position to attract free agents than we are now.  I'm not disputing that.  Even then, though, we'll be at a disadvantage compared to warm weather places that can say the same.

The bottom line is I would never plan my rebuild around acquiring a franchise caliber player in free agency.  I think it's bad strategy in general, but especially so if your franchise is located in a cold weather city that is predominantly white.  That's just the nature of this league.
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You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain
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