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The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« on: June 28, 2013, 08:29:55 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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Bradley/Crawford/Pressey
Lee/Brooks/Bogans
Green/Wallace/Joseph
Sullinger/Bass
Olynyk/Humphries/Melo

That is our team WITHOUT Rondo.  The Celtics are in the remarkably top-heavy Eastern Conference, where teams with below-.500 records have an opportunity to make the playoffs.

That lineup without Rondo is good enough to make the playoffs in the East.  They would be a 7th/8th seed, and if Rondo came back they'd be even better.

My point?  This team isn't going anywhere.  Not even to tank land.  Some teams in the East are just so much worse than this and I find it hard to believe that the roster posted above will fail to win 35+ games.  It's inevitable, barring even more trades.

So talk all you want about draft picks, but here's the facts: Brooklyn is a top ten team next year, and the Celtics will be a playoff team.  Those picks don't mean much.

2015?  The Clippers will be a top ten team, and the Celtics will probably be either at the end of the lottery or a fringe playoff team.  Those picks aren't special.

Assuming the team's younger players get better (if they haven't already been traded), this team will be stuck in NBA no-man's land.

I'm not blaming this on Ainge (who actually did pretty well to get what he got for Doc, KG, Pierce, and Terry), but I do think its important to look at the players on the team, and realize that the Celtics aren't some crap team.

They're just mediocre, and that sucks.
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2013, 08:34:44 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Quote from: CelticsFan9 on June 28, 2013, 08:29:55 PM
Bradley/Crawford/Pressey
Lee/Brooks/Bogans
Green/Wallace/Joseph
Sullinger/Bass
Olynyk/Humphries/Melo

That is our team WITHOUT Rondo.  The Celtics are in the remarkably top-heavy Eastern Conference, where teams with below-.500 records have an opportunity to make the playoffs.

That lineup without Rondo is good enough to make the playoffs in the East.  They would be a 7th/8th seed, and if Rondo came back they'd be even better.

My point?  This team isn't going anywhere.  Not even to tank land.  Some teams in the East are just so much worse than this and I find it hard to believe that the roster posted above will fail to win 35+ games.  It's inevitable, barring even more trades.

So talk all you want about draft picks, but here's the facts: Brooklyn is a top ten team next year, and the Celtics will be a playoff team.  Those picks don't mean much.

2015?  The Clippers will be a top ten team, and the Celtics will probably be either at the end of the lottery or a fringe playoff team.  Those picks aren't special.

Assuming the team's younger players get better (if they haven't already been traded), this team will be stuck in NBA no-man's land.

I'm not blaming this on Ainge (who actually did pretty well to get what he got for Doc, KG, Pierce, and Terry), but I do think its important to look at the players on the team, and realize that the Celtics aren't some crap team.

They're just mediocre, and that sucks.
Fine.  What was the alternative?  Keep PP and KG and wait for salary relief?  Fact is, we're still in roughly the same salary situation AND we picked up extra picks.  What's not to like?

And most fans are fairly simple.  They think picks in the 20s won't amount to much.  They don't consider how these assets could be used to get impact players.
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 08:37:53 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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Quote from: droopdog7 on June 28, 2013, 08:34:44 PM
Quote from: CelticsFan9 on June 28, 2013, 08:29:55 PM
Bradley/Crawford/Pressey
Lee/Brooks/Bogans
Green/Wallace/Joseph
Sullinger/Bass
Olynyk/Humphries/Melo

That is our team WITHOUT Rondo.  The Celtics are in the remarkably top-heavy Eastern Conference, where teams with below-.500 records have an opportunity to make the playoffs.

That lineup without Rondo is good enough to make the playoffs in the East.  They would be a 7th/8th seed, and if Rondo came back they'd be even better.

My point?  This team isn't going anywhere.  Not even to tank land.  Some teams in the East are just so much worse than this and I find it hard to believe that the roster posted above will fail to win 35+ games.  It's inevitable, barring even more trades.

So talk all you want about draft picks, but here's the facts: Brooklyn is a top ten team next year, and the Celtics will be a playoff team.  Those picks don't mean much.

2015?  The Clippers will be a top ten team, and the Celtics will probably be either at the end of the lottery or a fringe playoff team.  Those picks aren't special.

Assuming the team's younger players get better (if they haven't already been traded), this team will be stuck in NBA no-man's land.

I'm not blaming this on Ainge (who actually did pretty well to get what he got for Doc, KG, Pierce, and Terry), but I do think its important to look at the players on the team, and realize that the Celtics aren't some crap team.

They're just mediocre, and that sucks.
Fine.  What was the alternative?  Keep PP and KG and wait for salary relief?  Fact is, we're still in roughly the same salary situation AND we picked up extra picks.  What's not to like?

And most fans are fairly simple.  They think picks in the 20s won't amount to much.  They don't consider how these assets could be used to get impact players.

What's not to like?  The Celtics are in a position where they aren't going to get better, but they're not going to get worse.

Look at Atlanta from 2008 to now:

Lose in first round
Lose in second round
Lose in second round
Lose in first round
Lose in first round
Lose in first round

That's where this team is headed.

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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2013, 08:41:46 PM »

Offline esel1000

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Quote from: CelticsFan9 on June 28, 2013, 08:37:53 PM
Quote from: droopdog7 on June 28, 2013, 08:34:44 PM
Quote from: CelticsFan9 on June 28, 2013, 08:29:55 PM
Bradley/Crawford/Pressey
Lee/Brooks/Bogans
Green/Wallace/Joseph
Sullinger/Bass
Olynyk/Humphries/Melo

That is our team WITHOUT Rondo.  The Celtics are in the remarkably top-heavy Eastern Conference, where teams with below-.500 records have an opportunity to make the playoffs.

That lineup without Rondo is good enough to make the playoffs in the East.  They would be a 7th/8th seed, and if Rondo came back they'd be even better.

My point?  This team isn't going anywhere.  Not even to tank land.  Some teams in the East are just so much worse than this and I find it hard to believe that the roster posted above will fail to win 35+ games.  It's inevitable, barring even more trades.

So talk all you want about draft picks, but here's the facts: Brooklyn is a top ten team next year, and the Celtics will be a playoff team.  Those picks don't mean much.

2015?  The Clippers will be a top ten team, and the Celtics will probably be either at the end of the lottery or a fringe playoff team.  Those picks aren't special.

Assuming the team's younger players get better (if they haven't already been traded), this team will be stuck in NBA no-man's land.

I'm not blaming this on Ainge (who actually did pretty well to get what he got for Doc, KG, Pierce, and Terry), but I do think its important to look at the players on the team, and realize that the Celtics aren't some crap team.

They're just mediocre, and that sucks.
Fine.  What was the alternative?  Keep PP and KG and wait for salary relief?  Fact is, we're still in roughly the same salary situation AND we picked up extra picks.  What's not to like?

And most fans are fairly simple.  They think picks in the 20s won't amount to much.  They don't consider how these assets could be used to get impact players.

What's not to like?  The Celtics are in a position where they aren't going to get better, but they're not going to get worse.

Look at Atlanta from 2008 to now:

Lose in first round
Lose in second round
Lose in second round
Lose in first round
Lose in first round
Lose in first round

That's where this team is headed.

Actually you're wrong. Other than Wallace's awful contract this team is loaded with future picks and young players/assets and expiring contracts, especially with Brooks coming back instead of Evans.

DA is gonna use these pieces to land bigger pieces. We aren't rebuilding by tanking. That's fools gold. DA knows how to land bigger fish, exactly how he did it in 07. That's what we're on the path too. Not this tank theory that ppl seem to have
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2013, 08:43:22 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Okay, so before the trade, we would have been better but still no chance  to win a title AND fewer assets moving forward AND worse draft picks overall.

So again, what was the alternative?  How would keeping KG and PP gotten  us closer to competing for a title. 
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 08:47:39 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I don't see Bass being on the team this year.   Danny will make some more deals.
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2013, 08:48:35 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Quote from: CelticsFan9 on June 28, 2013, 08:29:55 PM
Bradley/Crawford/Pressey
Lee/Brooks/Bogans
Green/Wallace/Joseph
Sullinger/Bass
Olynyk/Humphries/Melo

That is our team WITHOUT Rondo.  The Celtics are in the remarkably top-heavy Eastern Conference, where teams with below-.500 records have an opportunity to make the playoffs.

That lineup without Rondo is good enough to make the playoffs in the East.  They would be a 7th/8th seed, and if Rondo came back they'd be even better.

My point?  This team isn't going anywhere.  Not even to tank land.  Some teams in the East are just so much worse than this and I find it hard to believe that the roster posted above will fail to win 35+ games.  It's inevitable, barring even more trades.

So talk all you want about draft picks, but here's the facts: Brooklyn is a top ten team next year, and the Celtics will be a playoff team.  Those picks don't mean much.

2015?  The Clippers will be a top ten team, and the Celtics will probably be either at the end of the lottery or a fringe playoff team.  Those picks aren't special.

Assuming the team's younger players get better (if they haven't already been traded), this team will be stuck in NBA no-man's land.

I'm not blaming this on Ainge (who actually did pretty well to get what he got for Doc, KG, Pierce, and Terry), but I do think its important to look at the players on the team, and realize that the Celtics aren't some crap team.

They're just mediocre, and that sucks.

Not sure I agree. That lineup plus Pierce and KG, but without Wallace/Humphries/Sully/Olynyk, was a .500 team and a 7th seed.

As a matter of fact that team plus *Rondo*, Pierce and KG and with Sully and Jason Terry, but minus Humphries/Wallace/Olynyk was also a .500 team.

Do you think the Nets guys plus Olynyk equal PP, KG and Rondo, talent-wise? Or even KG and PP?

You never know, of course, but I look at that Rondo-less lineup and think it's closer to 20 wins than to 40.

One thing I am 90% sure of is that it'll be ugly. Regardless of wins that is not a team I want to watch.
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2013, 08:49:28 PM »

Offline Who

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Hmm ... that looks more like a 20-25 win team to me (without Rondo).

With Rondo, given that it sounds like Rondo will be back early enough in the season, they should be in the 30-35 win range. That will probably have them in the 7-11 range of the lottery.
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2013, 08:49:33 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Quote from: Celtics4ever on June 28, 2013, 08:47:39 PM
I don't see Bass being on the team this year.   Danny will make some more deals.
If only.  Bass has zero to negative value.  We'll likely have to give teams something to take Bass off our hands.
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2013, 08:51:25 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Bradley/Crawford/Pressey
Lee/Brooks/Bogans
Green/Wallace/Joseph
Sullinger/Bass
Olynyk/Humphries/Melo

Not a playoff team IMO. We're more like the 2013 sixers.
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 08:52:06 PM »

Offline The Rondo Show

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Quote from: IndeedProceed on June 28, 2013, 08:51:25 PM
Bradley/Crawford/Pressey
Lee/Brooks/Bogans
Green/Wallace/Joseph
Sullinger/Bass
Olynyk/Humphries/Melo

Not a playoff team IMO. We're more like the 2013 sixers.
I agree
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2013, 08:52:43 PM »

Offline Who

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I think Boston needs a better defensive option at center to break .500 next season.

That big man rotation is worryingly vulnerable defensively.

I miss the idea of DeAndre Jordan. He would have been so good for this team. Fills a need. Unlike Gerald Wallace + Kris Humphries. 'tis a pity. Oh well.
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 08:58:06 PM »

Offline syfy9

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To me, Danny Ainge completely avoided the "Atlanta Hawk Territory". He saw that our core wasn't winning in the playoffs and blew it up.

The Atlanta Hawk Territory consists of teams that make the playoffs, but have just as much a chance of having meaningful success as the lottery teams. We aren't making the playoffs anytime soon.

We would've been in Atlanta Hawk Territory if we kept Pierce and KG and tried to go at it one more time.
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 09:03:33 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Quote from: CelticsFan9 on June 28, 2013, 08:29:55 PM
Bradley/Crawford/Pressey
Lee/Brooks/Bogans
Green/Wallace/Joseph
Sullinger/Bass
Olynyk/Humphries/Melo

That is our team WITHOUT Rondo.  The Celtics are in the remarkably top-heavy Eastern Conference, where teams with below-.500 records have an opportunity to make the playoffs.

That lineup without Rondo is good enough to make the playoffs in the East.  They would be a 7th/8th seed, and if Rondo came back they'd be even better.

My point?  This team isn't going anywhere.  Not even to tank land.  Some teams in the East are just so much worse than this and I find it hard to believe that the roster posted above will fail to win 35+ games.  It's inevitable, barring even more trades.

So talk all you want about draft picks, but here's the facts: Brooklyn is a top ten team next year, and the Celtics will be a playoff team.  Those picks don't mean much.

2015?  The Clippers will be a top ten team, and the Celtics will probably be either at the end of the lottery or a fringe playoff team.  Those picks aren't special.

Assuming the team's younger players get better (if they haven't already been traded), this team will be stuck in NBA no-man's land.

I'm not blaming this on Ainge (who actually did pretty well to get what he got for Doc, KG, Pierce, and Terry), but I do think its important to look at the players on the team, and realize that the Celtics aren't some crap team.

They're just mediocre, and that sucks.
Playoff team? That team would be lucky to win 20 games! Even with Rondo, that team wins maybe around 25 games. Who exactly is gonna score on that team outside of Green?

To become the Atlanta Hawks, The C's would have to sign some overpriced mediocre player like Josh Smith or Al Jefferson so they could win around 40 games, get the 5-6th seed in the East, and then proceed to get bounced by teams like Miami or Chicago in the first round. Repeat that for the next 5 years.

But based off a lot of the comments I've read the past few days, people would prefer to be perennial first or second round losers with no chance of winning a chmapionship than to to go the rebuilding route.
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Re: The Celtics are the new Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 09:53:09 PM »

Offline LilRip

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If you think that line up is a hawks-esque, then I'm sure that would make some people on here very happy. The ones who always want to make the playoffs even if it means always losing in the first round.

To me though, I thought our team with KG-PP was like the hawks: playoff team with little to no chance of making the finals. So if we unloaded KG-PP for assets and were still equally as good as last year without Rondo, then does that mean KG-PP had near zero impact? or rather, as much impact as Humphries and Wallace will?
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