Author Topic: Officially Wiggins or Bust  (Read 24976 times)

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Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #90 on: June 28, 2013, 02:04:46 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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That's why they have a lottery, because even the worst team in the league (which we likely won't be) has a lower than 50% chance of landing the top pick in the draft.

The worst team in the league has a better chance of picking fourth ($35.7%) than it does of picking first (25%).

oh my gosh...thank you...someone that finally gets it...

The #5 pick in 2014 will be a better asset than ANYTHING we currently have on our team including Rondo and his busted ACL.

Fact

For the record, dude's not saying the #5 pick will be a better player, he's saying that he'll be a better asset.

And he's right. Top five pick leads to a long-term rookie deal--the best value in the NBA. That's either the guy you build around, or the guy you trade for the guy you build around.

I'm sorry, but that's not necessarily true.  Having a perennial all-star, superstar player at $11 million per year is a fairly strong asset.  There's absolutely no guarantee that a kid on a rookie contract can be anywhere near as valuable as either an asset or, more importantly, as a player than Rajon Rondo.

Rondo's biggest value as an asset in 2014 will be that he's an expiring contract.

Because after the 2014 offseason, there's no way he'll be making just/only 11 million dollars a year any more.

Not to mention point guard is the deepest position in the league, by leaps and bounds.

Here's an imperfect equation for you.
In 2003, Jason Kidd was 30 and was a top flight point guard coming off a Finals trip.

In 2003, if you redrafted it, the top five picks would be LeBron, 'Melo, Bosh, Wade, and David West.

Do you want to pay Jason Kidd 11 million dollars for one year and probably have to sign him to a max contract after that, or do you want four years of LeBron/Melo/Wade/Bosh/West for a rookie deal?

It's a no brainer.


Allowing, of course, that there will always be sleepers and busts.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #91 on: June 28, 2013, 02:05:51 AM »

Offline rutzan

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Bottom line:   This is the smart move.  It's the best move.  It's not for sentimental folks.  Danny Ainge is a cold-hearted beast of a GM and we're lucky to have him calling the shots.  I wouldn't have been able to pull the trigger on this, but I'm sure as heck glad we have a GM who IS willing to.   KG and Pierce get to keep being relevant, Boston gets assets for the future... and we have hope at buiding a real dynasty.  Some people lack perspective so this is going to be really hard to wrap your mind around... but a year from now the hardcore Celtic fans will be overflowing with hope and optimism.   I have tons of trust in Ainge.  Dude couldn't have gotten a better package than this.

TP+  If things fall right this is could be our Herschel Walker trade.

Emphasis on the word if.

Now if things don't fall the way they are supposed to be, with now a locker room with no leaders and no identity, what happens?

exactly...one word...if...

someone else posted this the following...

"The worst team in the league has a better chance of picking fourth ($35.7%) than it does of picking first (25%)."

it comes down to risk vs reward...to me the risk is huge and not worth the sacrifice...it's called rolling the dice...you win...then...you're a hero...you lose...then...you're a goat...it isn't simply about #18...it's about Celtic Pride...basically...trading the Capt and KG and everything that is Celtic Pride is worth the "chance" at #18...not #18...but...the "chance" at #18...it's not just the name on the front of the jersey or the number of banners...it is what it stood for...

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #92 on: June 28, 2013, 02:10:02 AM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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You keep saying we could rebuild in a couple years.  Explain this a bit if you don't mind.

Glad there's someone with an open mind.

A lot of people seem excited about the 2014 draft, so I'll go back to the last impact draft, the 2003 draft class. This draft had a whopping four instant franchise changers: Lebron, Melo, Bosh, and Wade. The first one to win of these four was Wade, in 3 years. HOWEVER, he was only able to do so because he had Shaq, and other veterans like Walker and Williams. As for Lebron and Bosh, they didn't win until they teamed up with Wade, and Melo remains ringless even after going to NY. Stars win in this league, but that has become overrated now. Sometimes, it actually backfires. Look at Brooklyn.

At the end of the day, stars help, but basketball remains a team effort. It took 9 seasons for Lebron to win a championship, and that required him changing ships to a better TEAM. Everyone loves the "Thunder model", but Durant and Westbrook have grown with each other for 5 years now, but have yet to win a championship. It took them 4 years to get to the Finals, and it took them 3 years to become legitimate contenders. Under LarBrd33's dream situation, that means even if we get lucky and somehow get one of the franchise changers in next year's draft (which is unlikely unless we also trade Rondo and Green), we're off to a great Year 1. Let's say in a best, best, best case scenario, we somehow surround that franchise changer with elite veteran talent like Wade, and we become contenders by 2017. That's 4 years from now. Obviously, that takes a lot of pieces to fall together, so let's scale it back and say we keep drafting our key pieces with the "Thunder model". Now we're looking at 5-6 years. But the "Thunder model" has become overrated. It's not as easy as it looks. Ainge is a great drafter, but it's really difficult to continually draft guys like Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka in such a short span. In summary, even in the most ideal situations, if we completely nuke (which we have to with the Brooklyn trade), that's 4-6 years MINIMUM, and that's with everything falling perfectly into place.

NOW, what am I proposing? We already have Rondo and Green. Neither are top-tier superstars, but both are great players entering their prime while on reasonable contracts (particularly Rondo). Honestly, good, young players on reasonable contracts is one of the most undervalued assets in today's CBA. Around Rondo and Green, we still have very solid contributors in Sullinger, Bradley, and Lee. Olynyk is one of the most NBA ready talents from this year's draft class, as well. Three of the four guys I just mentioned are on rookie scale contracts, and Lee can certainly work his way to a point where his contract is reasonable.

This post is already long enough so I won't highlight the details, but if we made any trade other than the Brooklyn trade, we could've gotten assets without having to take back Wallace. But for the sake of simplicity, let's just say we only manage ONE first round pick for each PP/KG (and let's be realistic, we could've hauled in more). That means we'll have three additional first round picks when factoring in LAC's Doc compensation. Of course, we also have our own draft picks, too.

By the end of this offseason, that means we have a core of Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Olynyk, lots of cap space, and a solid amount of draft picks. Sully and Olynyk ideally come off the bench, so how do we fill out the frontcourt with impactful players? Luckily, Gortat is on the market. Millsap and Al Jefferson are free agents. And of all the potential disgruntled players, the cream of the crop just happens to be big men (LMA, Love, DMC). Looking at their situations realistically, LMA and DMC might be in a position where they stay. But honestly, Minny isn't going anywhere soon and Love already wanted out once.

If there's one thing Ainge is consistently good at, it's trading. We're not getting all of those guys, but the chances of us getting two we need is very likely. At this point, you might stop and say that none of these guys scream superstar, and none of them can carry a team to a championship.

Let's not forget that Rondo is a certified Heat killer, and when it comes to the postseason, he arguably is capable of carrying teams. Green has his finest moments against the Heat, too. Of the guys I listed, Millsap owns the Heat. Let's not forget that the two teams that came closest to toppling the Heat played TEAM BALL that centered around having a SOLID FRONTCOURT, the Pacers and Spurs. You can argue that Duncan still has enough in the tank to be called their superstar, but the Pacers certainly don't have a clear cut superstar. George emerged, yes, but his contributions weren't anymore than those of West, Hibbert, and even guys like Hill and Stephenson. Again, stars are nice to have, but ultimately it comes down to TEAM BALL.

When you look at the West, it's a similar story. Some of the most dangerous up and coming teams include Denver, Golden State, and Memphis. Again, none of these teams have clear cut superstars that carry the team outside of Curry. All of them have solid, deep teams that have a nice mixture of YOUTH AND EXPERIENCE, all of whom are HARD WORKERS.

With Rondo and Green already firmly in place, Boston easily could've gone out and created one of these solid team compositions that focus on a strong frontcourt, and an overall mixture of youth and experience. Fortunately, all these pieces were conveniently out there for us. We could've gotten together this sort of team in no more than 2 years. You could argue that we would almost assuredly be in the dreaded NBA purgatory of being a first or second round exit those first few years, but I'd be happy with that. Our team would get more experience and be hungrier for the next year. As early as the third year, we would be realistic championship contenders again.

Of course, not all trades/FA signings are perfect, so let's pretend that happens to us as well. But look at Indiana. Five years ago they thought Granger was going to be the guy that resurrects the franchise. Obviously, that wasn't the case. But in just a matter of five years, which is equivalent to a BEST CASE scenario of LarBrd33's fantasy. And the thing with my plan is that there are no risky investments. You're getting guys who have been in the league who know how to play. Two guys who most changed the Pacers's fortune were Hill and West, who came via trade and FA respectively. They're established. Through the draft, no matter how deep it is, you don't know what you're getting. Let's not forget the #2 overall pick of the 2003 draft was Darko.

We have Rondo and Green already. They help make a quick 2-3 year retool so much easier. I don't understand why in the world Ainge felt compelled to get one of the worst contracts in the league.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #93 on: June 28, 2013, 02:15:09 AM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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Emphasis on the word if.

Now if things don't fall the way they are supposed to be, with now a locker room with no leaders and no identity, what happens?

Of course it's a gamble.  If anyone knows of a way to build a contender that isn't a gamble, I'm all ears.

And just because we have gotten younger, it doesn't mean we will be rudderless.  OKC is young, and no one would say they suffer from lack of leadership.

And an identity of first round exits doesn't sound appealing either.  That sounds like settling.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #94 on: June 28, 2013, 02:16:31 AM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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Also, to help understand my post, a big concept to familiarize yourself with is the fact that just because the Heat are b2b champions, and just because the Thunder are annual favorites, it doesn't mean superstars rule the league. Again, the Pacers and the Spurs nearly toppled them without having a clearcut superstar. It's pretty obvious with the Pacers, but you could argue that Duncan is the Spurs's superstar. However, they had key contributions from various guys, including names like Leonard and Green.

The Thunder are always pegged by the media to win the West, but each and every year the West is always wild. Aside from the Spurs, up and coming dangers like the Warriors, Grizzlies, and Nuggets all consist of a team-oriented game. Not a single team there has a guy who consistently carries the team to victory. I said Curry in my previous post, but even he isn't a valid example as Jack often came up big for the Warriors. As for the Clippers with CP3 and Blake, I can assure you they will not be contending for a title with their team currently constructed.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #95 on: June 28, 2013, 02:23:56 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Also, to help understand my post, a big concept to familiarize yourself with is the fact that just because the Heat are b2b champions, and just because the Thunder are annual favorites, it doesn't mean superstars rule the league. Again, the Pacers and the Spurs nearly toppled them without having a clearcut superstar. It's pretty obvious with the Pacers, but you could argue that Duncan is the Spurs's superstar. However, they had key contributions from various guys, including names like Leonard and Green.

The Thunder are always pegged by the media to win the West, but each and every year the West is always wild. Aside from the Spurs, up and coming dangers like the Warriors, Grizzlies, and Nuggets all consist of a team-oriented game. Not a single team there has a guy who consistently carries the team to victory. I said Curry in my previous post, but even he isn't a valid example as Jack often came up big for the Warriors. As for the Clippers with CP3 and Blake, I can assure you they will not be contending for a title with their team currently constructed.

You should, perhaps, familiarize yourself with the players on this list.


1969   Jerry West
1970   Willis Reed
1971   Lew Alcindor
1972   Wilt Chamberlain
1973   Willis Reed
1974   John Havlicek
1975   Rick Barry
1976   Jo Jo White
1977   Bill Walton
1978   Wes Unseld
1979   Dennis Johnson
1980   Magic Johnson
1981   Cedric Maxwell
1982   Magic Johnson
1983   Moses Malone
1984   Larry Bird
1985   Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1986   Larry Bird
1987   Magic Johnson
1988   James Worthy
1989   Joe Dumars*
1990   Isiah Thomas
1991   Michael Jordan
1992   Michael Jordan
1993   Michael Jordan
1994   Hakeem Olajuwon
1995   Hakeem Olajuwon
1996   Michael Jordan
1997   Michael Jordan
1998   Michael Jordan
1999   Tim Duncan
2000   Shaquille O'Neal
2001   Shaquille O'Neal
2002   Shaquille O'Neal
2003   Tim Duncan
2004   Chauncey Billups
2005   Tim Duncan
2006   Dwyane Wade
2007   Tony Parker
2008   Paul Pierce
2009   Kobe Bryant
2010   Kobe Bryant
2011   Dirk Nowitzki
2012   LeBron James
2013   LeBron James

So, no, while you don't need a superstar, it appears that they certainly help win championships.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #96 on: June 28, 2013, 02:25:36 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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That's why they have a lottery, because even the worst team in the league (which we likely won't be) has a lower than 50% chance of landing the top pick in the draft.

The worst team in the league has a better chance of picking fourth ($35.7%) than it does of picking first (25%).

oh my gosh...thank you...someone that finally gets it...

The #5 pick in 2014 will be a better asset than ANYTHING we currently have on our team including Rondo and his busted ACL.

Fact
#5 pick? Teams with a lot less talent than Rondo, Green, Sullinger and Bradley will be tanking from game 1 next year. The C's will be lucky to get pick 9.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #97 on: June 28, 2013, 02:32:11 AM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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One last note on the tanking method:

Where is Cleveland now? Washington? Minnesota?

Chicago's fortunes changed when they drafted Rose, but how did they fare last year without him? They had solid contributions from across the board. Everybody on the team contributed.

Why are the Warriors suddenly a dangerous team? They traded for Lee and Bogut. Again, another skilled frontcourt. They also made shrewd free agent signings with Jack and Landry. Yes, Barnes was a lottery pick, but it's not like he was the main catalyst of the reversal of fortune in the Bay Area.

How about the Nuggets? How did they manage to get even better following the departure of their best draft pick ever? Solid team ball. They technically got from free agency Chandler. They traded for McGee who undeniably will have a bigger role next year. They landed Iguodala from Philly. They made solid non-lotto draft picks with Lawson (from MIN) and Faried.

I can keep on going. The point I'm trying to make here is that success from the draft is already a gamble, and even if you are lucky enough to strike it rich, then you have to deal with the fact that you still aren't necessarily better than teams who DON'T get high draft picks, but instead make smart trades, FA signings, and uncovering draft gems in later picks.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #98 on: June 28, 2013, 02:36:36 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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One last note on the tanking method:

Where is Cleveland now? Washington? Minnesota?

Chicago's fortunes changed when they drafted Rose, but how did they fare last year without him? They had solid contributions from across the board. Everybody on the team contributed.

Why are the Warriors suddenly a dangerous team? They traded for Lee and Bogut. Again, another skilled frontcourt. They also made shrewd free agent signings with Jack and Landry. Yes, Barnes was a lottery pick, but it's not like he was the main catalyst of the reversal of fortune in the Bay Area.

How about the Nuggets? How did they manage to get even better following the departure of their best draft pick ever? Solid team ball. They technically got from free agency Chandler. They traded for McGee who undeniably will have a bigger role next year. They landed Iguodala from Philly. They made solid non-lotto draft picks with Lawson (from MIN) and Faried.

I can keep on going. The point I'm trying to make here is that success from the draft is already a gamble, and even if you are lucky enough to strike it rich, then you have to deal with the fact that you still aren't necessarily better than teams who DON'T get high draft picks, but instead make smart trades, FA signings, and uncovering draft gems in later picks.

Somehow I don't think you'd hear anyone complaining if Danny ended up assets for an 1A type free agent that complimented Jeff Green and Rondo. Personally, I'd love to snag LaMarcus Aldridge in that roll.

On the other hand, there's nothing stopping us from showcasing and stockpiling our trade assets this year while tanking for the draft and allowing Rondo to come back healthy for 2014. What if we end up with a top 10 draft pick and a guy like LA?
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #99 on: June 28, 2013, 02:40:16 AM »

Offline The Playmaker

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I don't see rebuilding as a longterm process for us.  As long as we keep our core players (Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sully) and somehow move Wallace then we should be sitting nicely by the next draft and have enough money to make a splash in the FA class.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #100 on: June 28, 2013, 02:44:35 AM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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@Dos: I never denied superstars help win titles. In fact, I specifically said they help win championships. I'm just saying with the way Stern has shifted the league, with the new CBA, we're beginning to see a new era in the NBA where stars aren't EVERYTHING. Teams like the '04 Pistons are going to really be successful. Of course, back then, they were most definitely a fluke with guys like Kobe, TMac, and all of them just tearing up the league. But again, today's basketball culture is changing. I'd argue that's why Dirk didn't win until a few years back. It's why the landscape today has a team like Indiana so successful.

Furthermore, I certainly hope you're right with the idea of Ainge somehow still surrounding Rondo and Green with talent. I'm just very skeptical right now with Wallace's contract, and the fact that Rondo is too competitive to pull a Rose this season. Of course, anything is possible, and that's why never once in this whole process have I called for Ainge's firing. I really disapproved of the Nets trade, but I can't make any brash judgments until all the dust finally settles.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #101 on: June 28, 2013, 02:48:23 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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One last note on the tanking method:

Where is Cleveland now? Washington? Minnesota?

Chicago's fortunes changed when they drafted Rose, but how did they fare last year without him? They had solid contributions from across the board. Everybody on the team contributed.

Why are the Warriors suddenly a dangerous team? They traded for Lee and Bogut. Again, another skilled frontcourt. They also made shrewd free agent signings with Jack and Landry. Yes, Barnes was a lottery pick, but it's not like he was the main catalyst of the reversal of fortune in the Bay Area.

How about the Nuggets? How did they manage to get even better following the departure of their best draft pick ever? Solid team ball. They technically got from free agency Chandler. They traded for McGee who undeniably will have a bigger role next year. They landed Iguodala from Philly. They made solid non-lotto draft picks with Lawson (from MIN) and Faried.

I can keep on going. The point I'm trying to make here is that success from the draft is already a gamble, and even if you are lucky enough to strike it rich, then you have to deal with the fact that you still aren't necessarily better than teams who DON'T get high draft picks, but instead make smart trades, FA signings, and uncovering draft gems in later picks.

Which is why this is a cowardly move, as I said from the beginning. Great post, TP.

Basically Danny is saying he does not trust his GM skills to land a solid player to help Rondo and Green even with the cap space that he has.

He does not trust his GM skills to be able to pull a trade involving our assets like picks, Bradley, Sullinger, Bass and Lee, all are solid players to get a another solid guy or a pick.

He does not trust his GM skills that he can find a gem in the mid rounds of the draft, or late round even though he showed already that he could.

We could rebuild the team by not really trying to suck and hope to get a high draft pick, but by, as Vince McMahon said, taking calculated risk signing players, drafting right, making smart trades and making sure we have a coaching staff that could very well mesh the players we have. We don't have to suck to be able to win in the future.

Instead Danny took the easy and cowardly way out and risk being mediocre for a lot of years, waste away the prime years of Rondo and Green, risk the development of the young assets we have now because we're not going for the win, for a CHANCE to land a star in this draft or to trade for one.


I was defending Danny a while ago, now I'm flipping. This tells me that he does not trust himself as a very good GM and his only solution to be winners in the future is to be losers first and get lucky with the ping pong balls. He doesn't trust the job his scouts are doing, nor the coaches he will hire. That's someone who should not be running the team, he needs to get axed.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 03:02:59 AM by Yoki_IsTheName »
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #102 on: June 28, 2013, 02:48:52 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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That's why they have a lottery, because even the worst team in the league (which we likely won't be) has a lower than 50% chance of landing the top pick in the draft.

The worst team in the league has a better chance of picking fourth ($35.7%) than it does of picking first (25%).

oh my gosh...thank you...someone that finally gets it...

The #5 pick in 2014 will be a better asset than ANYTHING we currently have on our team including Rondo and his busted ACL.

Fact

For the record, dude's not saying the #5 pick will be a better player, he's saying that he'll be a better asset.

And he's right. Top five pick leads to a long-term rookie deal--the best value in the NBA. That's either the guy you build around, or the guy you trade for the guy you build around.

I'm sorry, but that's not necessarily true.  Having a perennial all-star, superstar player at $11 million per year is a fairly strong asset.  There's absolutely no guarantee that a kid on a rookie contract can be anywhere near as valuable as either an asset or, more importantly, as a player than Rajon Rondo.

Rondo's biggest value as an asset in 2014 will be that he's an expiring contract.

Because after the 2014 offseason, there's no way he'll be making just/only 11 million dollars a year any more.

Not to mention point guard is the deepest position in the league, by leaps and bounds.

Here's an imperfect equation for you.
In 2003, Jason Kidd was 30 and was a top flight point guard coming off a Finals trip.

In 2003, if you redrafted it, the top five picks would be LeBron, 'Melo, Bosh, Wade, and David West.

Do you want to pay Jason Kidd 11 million dollars for one year and probably have to sign him to a max contract after that, or do you want four years of LeBron/Melo/Wade/Bosh/West for a rookie deal?

It's a no brainer.


Allowing, of course, that there will always be sleepers and busts.

Of course I would want 2003 Jason Kidd over rookie contract David West. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #103 on: June 28, 2013, 02:54:33 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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That's why they have a lottery, because even the worst team in the league (which we likely won't be) has a lower than 50% chance of landing the top pick in the draft.

The worst team in the league has a better chance of picking fourth ($35.7%) than it does of picking first (25%).

oh my gosh...thank you...someone that finally gets it...

The #5 pick in 2014 will be a better asset than ANYTHING we currently have on our team including Rondo and his busted ACL.

Fact
#5 pick? Teams with a lot less talent than Rondo, Green, Sullinger and Bradley will be tanking from game 1 next year. The C's will be lucky to get pick 9.

That's why I'll just be rooting for pick 15 or lower.  Not only will that be better for the short term, but it will be better for the long term as well.  I'm a firm believer that when you are trying to build assets it makes them better players if they are actually competing for something, and them being better players, in turn, makes them better assets. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #104 on: June 28, 2013, 03:01:29 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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@Dos: I never denied superstars help win titles. In fact, I specifically said they help win championships. I'm just saying with the way Stern has shifted the league, with the new CBA, we're beginning to see a new era in the NBA where stars aren't EVERYTHING. Teams like the '04 Pistons are going to really be successful. Of course, back then, they were most definitely a fluke with guys like Kobe, TMac, and all of them just tearing up the league. But again, today's basketball culture is changing. I'd argue that's why Dirk didn't win until a few years back. It's why the landscape today has a team like Indiana so successful.

Furthermore, I certainly hope you're right with the idea of Ainge somehow still surrounding Rondo and Green with talent. I'm just very skeptical right now with Wallace's contract, and the fact that Rondo is too competitive to pull a Rose this season. Of course, anything is possible, and that's why never once in this whole process have I called for Ainge's firing. I really disapproved of the Nets trade, but I can't make any brash judgments until all the dust finally settles.
Right on. It's late. I'm tired and this trade has me all hopped up. Sorry for misreading your post.

That's why they have a lottery, because even the worst team in the league (which we likely won't be) has a lower than 50% chance of landing the top pick in the draft.

The worst team in the league has a better chance of picking fourth ($35.7%) than it does of picking first (25%).

oh my gosh...thank you...someone that finally gets it...

The #5 pick in 2014 will be a better asset than ANYTHING we currently have on our team including Rondo and his busted ACL.

Fact

For the record, dude's not saying the #5 pick will be a better player, he's saying that he'll be a better asset.

And he's right. Top five pick leads to a long-term rookie deal--the best value in the NBA. That's either the guy you build around, or the guy you trade for the guy you build around.

I'm sorry, but that's not necessarily true.  Having a perennial all-star, superstar player at $11 million per year is a fairly strong asset.  There's absolutely no guarantee that a kid on a rookie contract can be anywhere near as valuable as either an asset or, more importantly, as a player than Rajon Rondo.

Rondo's biggest value as an asset in 2014 will be that he's an expiring contract.

Because after the 2014 offseason, there's no way he'll be making just/only 11 million dollars a year any more.

Not to mention point guard is the deepest position in the league, by leaps and bounds.

Here's an imperfect equation for you.
In 2003, Jason Kidd was 30 and was a top flight point guard coming off a Finals trip.

In 2003, if you redrafted it, the top five picks would be LeBron, 'Melo, Bosh, Wade, and David West.

Do you want to pay Jason Kidd 11 million dollars for one year and probably have to sign him to a max contract after that, or do you want four years of LeBron/Melo/Wade/Bosh/West for a rookie deal?

It's a no brainer.


Allowing, of course, that there will always be sleepers and busts.

Of course I would want 2003 Jason Kidd over rookie contract David West. 

Even when that meant that 2003 Jason Kidd (on a near-max contract, don't forget) was going to eat up all of your cap space and make building around him almost impossible?

Well I certainly admire your enthusiasm.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.