The Case for Running it Back

[LarBrd33]

Nah.  Rondo's stats this season were the best of his entire career.   How quickly we forget the assist streak.

Maybe had they played him 44 minutes a night in nationally televised games, only had him play against 2011 Philly, Horford-less Atlanta and Miami, he'd put up superstar numbers nightly. 

I'm not a believer in this "playoff rondo = superstar" myth.  He had a few good series, but his per-minute stats that year were about even with his regular season stats.  He just was playing an obscene 44 minutes a night.  All it takes is one whipping in the 1st round without KG and Pierce for the "playoff rondo = superstar" myth to die a gruesome death. 

Running it back is silly.  Acquiring assets isn't really that risky if you know what you are doing as a GM.

Bad GM - Kahn/Jordan
Good GM - Moray/Ainge

"Superstar Playoff Rondo" is not a myth.  The fact that your argument relies on future hypothetical events as opposed to what has actually happened  doesn't lend it much credibility.

Again, Rondo has been a superstar in the playoffs.  That's undeniable. 

You're waiting until he has a playoff series where he's not a superstar to prove your point.  That's funny.

It's debatable.  Even his crazy year last year... KG's per minute numbers were better.  The year before that, there were 25 players in the playoffs who put up better per-minute numbers than him (that only includes players who averaged at least 30 minutes).

His stats in the playoffs last year were fantastic, though.  Averaging 43 minutes a night helped inflate them, but the kid was a beast.  He was a beast in 2009 too.  You have to wonder how much of that is due to matchups, Boston's solid gameplan and a heightened sense of focus by the vets around Rondo during those series. 

I guess some people assume Rondo is a "superstar" if he wants to.  Like he just flips a switch and plays better. If that's your reasoning, you're essentially saying that Rondo is a player who dogs it 90% of the time and refuses to play to his potential unless he has to.  That's a terrible person to build a team around.  If that's your reasoning, then you can't blame Ainge for trying to trade Rondo every year.

[action781]

Here's my case for running it back.  Here are 4 cases actually.

Sacramento, Charlotte, New Orleans, Washington.  Those are what teams look like that try to "rebuild" from scratch.

But wait, we are the celtics.  We are going to get lucky.  We are going to get a #1 pick.  And not only will we get the #1 pick but that number 1 pick will be much better than Wall or Davis.  This #1 pick will be able to single-handedly save our franchise and make us contenders.  All we have to do is sit back and wait.  It's going to be so awesome.

[WeMadeIt17]

Here's my case for running it back.  Here are 4 cases actually.

Sacramento, Charlotte, New Orleans, Washington.  Those are what teams look like that try to "rebuild" from scratch.

But wait, we are the celtics.  We are going to get lucky.  We are going to get a #1 pick.  And not only will we get the #1 pick but that number 1 pick will be much better than Wall or Davis.  This #1 pick will be able to single-handedly save our franchise and make us contenders.  All we have to do is sit back and wait.  It's going to be so awesome.

The only hole in your argument is that the wizards,bobcats, and other teams you have named haven't made wise choices are players personal. You cant have it both ways. We have to either run it back which mean we gather no assets, we get a year older and make the playoffs as a what 4-8th seed? We lose in the 2nd round and then have to hit a home run with a pick somewhere between 15-22. I just think you sometimes have to cut your losses.

If we re-build now we have to have a chance at a high pick if not we get lotto picks and move them in a trade in which we got KG and Ray.

This is coming from someone who is willing to run it back. But either way we aren't winning a ring this next season or after that. So you choose which one gets us quicker to our next ring. Unfortunately its probably the one where we trade our old guys for multiple picks and stink for a few years, and hope Danny makes the right moves.

[Celtics18]

Nah.  Rondo's stats this season were the best of his entire career.   How quickly we forget the assist streak.

Maybe had they played him 44 minutes a night in nationally televised games, only had him play against 2011 Philly, Horford-less Atlanta and Miami, he'd put up superstar numbers nightly. 

I'm not a believer in this "playoff rondo = superstar" myth.  He had a few good series, but his per-minute stats that year were about even with his regular season stats.  He just was playing an obscene 44 minutes a night.  All it takes is one whipping in the 1st round without KG and Pierce for the "playoff rondo = superstar" myth to die a gruesome death. 

Running it back is silly.  Acquiring assets isn't really that risky if you know what you are doing as a GM.

Bad GM - Kahn/Jordan
Good GM - Moray/Ainge

"Superstar Playoff Rondo" is not a myth.  The fact that your argument relies on future hypothetical events as opposed to what has actually happened  doesn't lend it much credibility.

Again, Rondo has been a superstar in the playoffs.  That's undeniable. 

You're waiting until he has a playoff series where he's not a superstar to prove your point.  That's funny.

It's debatable.  Even his crazy year last year... KG's per minute numbers were better.  The year before that, there were 25 players in the playoffs who put up better per-minute numbers than him (that only includes players who averaged at least 30 minutes).

His stats in the playoffs last year were fantastic, though.  Averaging 43 minutes a night helped inflate them, but the kid was a beast.  He was a beast in 2009 too.  You have to wonder how much of that is due to matchups, Boston's solid gameplan and a heightened sense of focus by the vets around Rondo during those series. 

I guess some people assume Rondo is a "superstar" if he wants to.  Like he just flips a switch and plays better. If that's your reasoning, you're essentially saying that Rondo is a player who dogs it 90% of the time and refuses to play to his potential unless he has to.  That's a terrible person to build a team around.  If that's your reasoning, then you can't blame Ainge for trying to trade Rondo every year.

That's not what I'm saying or assuming.  I don't think it's a matter of "flipping a switch."  I do think that a part of it is recognizing that at 6'1" 190, he'd break down if he went full speed for all the minutes he's required to play over the long haul of an NBA season.  I don't think that's lazy.  I think that's smart. 

I also believe that his skill set is tailor made for a multiple game series against the same opponent.  His craftiness and his BBIQ are what set him apart.  He's really good at adjusting, and he's really hard to game plan against over the course of a series because he is so unpredictable.  Rondo is a master at reading ahead to the next play or the next game.  When the next game is against the same opponent, that's advantage Rondo.

I think that's why he's been so good in the playoffs. 

I know you think he's going to suck once KG and Paul aren't there to "carry him" anymore.  I don't think that's the case.    Let's, at least, wait and see. 

Also, let's address this idea that "he dogs it 90% of the time."  It's certainly not like he's sucked during the regular season.  For the 2012 regular season, he was an All Star, 3rd team all NBA, second team all defense, and top ten in MVP votes.  That's hardly the resume of a scrub.

To start the 2013 season, he was playing some very good ball, as well, good enough to get him voted as a starter in the All Star game.  At the time, I don't remember even his most ardent detractors having any disagreement with that selection.  Unfortunately, he happened to be the best player on a team that was underperforming.  He got much of the blame for that underperformance.  Fair or unfair, that's the lot of a superstar.  The anti-Rondo crowd jumped all over the team's record when he went down for the season and a good subsequent run without him as incontrovertible proof that the team was better off without him.

There were others of us who knew that the team would likely struggle without him when the playoffs rolled around.  We did, putting up one of the worst offensive performances ever against the Knicks in the first round without our playoff star point guard.

I don't think he's such a "terrible person to build a team around."

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

But there is such a thing as building the wrong type of team around somebody

[Celtics4ever]

Wishful thinking, our old guys are not the Spurs.  Even at his best ,  KG has never outperfomed Tim Duncan in the playoffs.

[2short]

I have no problem with keeping kg and paul but we would need to add a quality big, okafor lets say and move paul to the bench.  Pierce can come in for green and at the same time his play making on the floor gives rondo a break.

[BballTim]

Nah.  Rondo's stats this season were the best of his entire career.   How quickly we forget the assist streak.

Maybe had they played him 44 minutes a night in nationally televised games, only had him play against 2011 Philly, Horford-less Atlanta and Miami, he'd put up superstar numbers nightly. 

  You look fairly silly every time you try and downplay his 2012 playoffs because he only did it against the Heat, the Hawks and the Sixers. They were 3rd, 4th and 6th in defense that year. You obviously don't realize this but it's actually harder to put up good numbers against the best defensive teams, not easier.

I'm not a believer in this "playoff rondo = superstar" myth.  He had a few good series, but his per-minute stats that year were about even with his regular season stats.  He just was playing an obscene 44 minutes a night.  All it takes is one whipping in the 1st round without KG and Pierce for the "playoff rondo = superstar" myth to die a gruesome death. 

  Half right. All it took was one whipping in the first round without Rondo for all of your ridiculous proclamations about how unimportant Rondo is to the Celtics to die a gruesome death, you just don't realize it yet. I guess in your "gruesome death" scenario you're expecting Rondo's supporters to be much more adept at drawing conclusions from what happened on the court than you obviously are.

  As for all of your claims that Rondo doesn't up his game in the playoffs and only ups his minutes, why don't you put that to the test. For his career, Rondo's averaged 12.1 points per36 during the regular season and 13.6 points per36 during the playoffs. So pick the 5-10 current players (with at least 25 or so career playoff games) who have been the best playoff performers. Maybe guys like Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, LeBron, PP/KG, Wade, whoever you think have been the best. Let me know who you pick and then let me know how many of them up their per minute scoring averages more that Rondo, or even as much.