If you're mad with Danny Ainge....don't be. Give him a chance.

[Chris]

I feel bad for Danny.  He is getting railroaded by a tremendous job of using the media by the Clippers. 

In reality, if Danny can trade an aging (and perhaps breaking down) center, and a coach who they probably don't want to pay through a rebuilding process anyways, for a young, talented (even if overpaid) big man, and 2 first round picks, that is really pretty great value in a vacuum. 

The problem is, the Clippers have been leaking the "negotiations" (or what they want people to think the negotiations have been) constantly, making it look like Danny has been bending over for them, as they just hold firm.  It has made him look weak, and in their mind, it also probably kills his negotiating power.

If he takes a deal at this point, he is going to look bad, even if, in reality, it is a pretty good deal. 

I just wonder though, if the Clippers are playing with fire here.  I wonder if they are pushing him too far, and if maybe he will just walk away.

Great points

Except for the "pretty good deal" part.

I think in a vaccuum, it is a pretty good deal.  KG could break down any second now, and isn't all that valuable, and like Jordan or not, he is a 24 year old legit center who blocks shots and rebounds.  He is coming off a tough season, but I think if you put him on a bad team that won't sit him every 4th quarter, he will put up some eye popping numbers, and build a lot of value quickly.  And draft picks are always valuable.

The problem is, when you are in the mindset that they "almost" got Bledsoe (which I don't believe he was ever actually on the table), or even that they had a chance to dump salaries (which also probably was never the case, because the Clippers need Caron to get another piece), then it is hard to accept this deal.

Ultimately, this is probably better value than we could expect given KG's age.

[danglertx]

I've explained in other spots why I feel Jordon is worse than giving KG away so I won't do that again.  But if the option is KG retiring before July 1st or at any point next year, you jump all over that.  It helps us infinitely more than Jordon for two years who I'd argue is actually a negative to both our team and our salary cap.

[wdleehi]

If you're afraid to make a move to acquire a talented player because you'll be pressured into overpaying him at a later date then you should just quit your job as a GM already.

8



If you are afraid to allow a player to leave with getting something, no matter how bad the deal is, quit your job.



I have noticed good, long term GMs allow this to happen with their aging stars.  Sure, it can take a while to get good again. 


If the Celtics are going into "rebuilding" mode, then patience is the key.


This deals screams of impatience.

Why?

If it doesn't make our cap/tax situation worse (it doesn't because KG's contract matches the length of Jordan's and we have other salary tying us up) how is impatience?

Because you are taking back the lesser player.  (much lesser) 


You are taking the lesser player who will actually be looking for a new contract at the end of that time. 




This is the NY Knicks plan when Ewing was at the end of his career. 

[wdleehi]

I feel bad for Danny.  He is getting railroaded by a tremendous job of using the media by the Clippers. 

In reality, if Danny can trade an aging (and perhaps breaking down) center, and a coach who they probably don't want to pay through a rebuilding process anyways, for a young, talented (even if overpaid) big man, and 2 first round picks, that is really pretty great value in a vacuum. 

The problem is, the Clippers have been leaking the "negotiations" (or what they want people to think the negotiations have been) constantly, making it look like Danny has been bending over for them, as they just hold firm.  It has made him look weak, and in their mind, it also probably kills his negotiating power.

If he takes a deal at this point, he is going to look bad, even if, in reality, it is a pretty good deal. 

I just wonder though, if the Clippers are playing with fire here.  I wonder if they are pushing him too far, and if maybe he will just walk away.

Great points

Except for the "pretty good deal" part.

I think in a vaccuum, it is a pretty good deal.  KG could break down any second now, and isn't all that valuable, and like Jordan or not, he is a 24 year old legit center who blocks shots and rebounds.  He is coming off a tough season, but I think if you put him on a bad team that won't sit him every 4th quarter, he will put up some eye popping numbers, and build a lot of value quickly.  And draft picks are always valuable.

The problem is, when you are in the mindset that they "almost" got Bledsoe (which I don't believe he was ever actually on the table), or even that they had a chance to dump salaries (which also probably was never the case, because the Clippers need Caron to get another piece), then it is hard to accept this deal.

Ultimately, this is probably better value than we could expect given KG's age.

I didn't like the deal when Bledsoe was involved either. 

[Chris]

I feel bad for Danny.  He is getting railroaded by a tremendous job of using the media by the Clippers. 

In reality, if Danny can trade an aging (and perhaps breaking down) center, and a coach who they probably don't want to pay through a rebuilding process anyways, for a young, talented (even if overpaid) big man, and 2 first round picks, that is really pretty great value in a vacuum. 

The problem is, the Clippers have been leaking the "negotiations" (or what they want people to think the negotiations have been) constantly, making it look like Danny has been bending over for them, as they just hold firm.  It has made him look weak, and in their mind, it also probably kills his negotiating power.

If he takes a deal at this point, he is going to look bad, even if, in reality, it is a pretty good deal. 

I just wonder though, if the Clippers are playing with fire here.  I wonder if they are pushing him too far, and if maybe he will just walk away.

Great points

Except for the "pretty good deal" part.

I think in a vaccuum, it is a pretty good deal.  KG could break down any second now, and isn't all that valuable, and like Jordan or not, he is a 24 year old legit center who blocks shots and rebounds.  He is coming off a tough season, but I think if you put him on a bad team that won't sit him every 4th quarter, he will put up some eye popping numbers, and build a lot of value quickly.  And draft picks are always valuable.

The problem is, when you are in the mindset that they "almost" got Bledsoe (which I don't believe he was ever actually on the table), or even that they had a chance to dump salaries (which also probably was never the case, because the Clippers need Caron to get another piece), then it is hard to accept this deal.

Ultimately, this is probably better value than we could expect given KG's age.

I didn't like the deal when Bledsoe was involved either.

Fair enough.  I was never a huge fan either.  But my perspective has changed now that I have realized this team IS moving on, and I really just don't think you can get better value.

I think this deal would put the team in a better position moving forward.  They need assets.  This gets them assets.

Although, I wait to see what the final deal is (if there is one) before truly giving judgement.

[feckless]

I feel bad for Danny.  He is getting railroaded by a tremendous job of using the media by the Clippers. 

In reality, if Danny can trade an aging (and perhaps breaking down) center, and a coach who they probably don't want to pay through a rebuilding process anyways, for a young, talented (even if overpaid) big man, and 2 first round picks, that is really pretty great value in a vacuum. 

The problem is, the Clippers have been leaking the "negotiations" (or what they want people to think the negotiations have been) constantly, making it look like Danny has been bending over for them, as they just hold firm.  It has made him look weak, and in their mind, it also probably kills his negotiating power.

If he takes a deal at this point, he is going to look bad, even if, in reality, it is a pretty good deal. 

I just wonder though, if the Clippers are playing with fire here.  I wonder if they are pushing him too far, and if maybe he will just walk away.

If Danny is getting out maneuvered by the Clippers he has no business keeping his job!

[chambers]

I've explained in other spots why I feel Jordon is worse than giving KG away so I won't do that again.  But if the option is KG retiring before July 1st or at any point next year, you jump all over that.  It helps us infinitely more than Jordon for two years who I'd argue is actually a negative to both our team and our salary cap.

But KG wants to play. He wants the 20 million dollars he's signed up for.
Do we cut him and pay him his money while getting nothing?
Or do we let him go play for a trophy after everything he's done for our organization and the assets he'll net us in return in the process?
I'm not saying one or the other is right, but it's a tough spot to be in.
6 months ago we thought 'KG has a no trade clause- he will retire and the only real asset we'll have is Pierce's expiring deal'.
Why not let him go play ball for 2 more years and get something potentially good for our future in Jordan and his potential? Not to mention the two draft picks.
What would be funny is if they did this trade and then CP3 left or KG got injured. Those late first rounders just turned into 10-20 picks lol.

[Fafnir]

This is the NY Knicks plan when Ewing was at the end of his career.

No its not, not unless you assume that Danny will automatically give Jordan a contract extension.

The Knicks recieved contracts that extended beyond what Ewing's contract was in Glen Rice and Luc Longley.

Again if you assume that you as a GM are going overpay whatever talent you acquire then you might as well resign.

[wdleehi]

I've explained in other spots why I feel Jordon is worse than giving KG away so I won't do that again.  But if the option is KG retiring before July 1st or at any point next year, you jump all over that.  It helps us infinitely more than Jordon for two years who I'd argue is actually a negative to both our team and our salary cap.

But KG wants to play. He wants the 20 million dollars he's signed up for.
Do we cut him and pay him his money while getting nothing?
Or do we let him go play for a trophy after everything he's done for our organization and the assets he'll net us in return in the process?
I'm not saying one or the other is right, but it's a tough spot to be in.
6 months ago we thought 'KG has a no trade clause- he will retire and the only real asset we'll have is Pierce's expiring deal'.
Why not let him go play ball for 2 more years and get something potentially good for our future in Jordan and his potential? Not to mention the two draft picks.
What would be funny is if they did this trade and then CP3 left or KG got injured. Those late first rounders just turned into 10-20 picks lol.

If KG is happy playing with the Celtics, I am happy watching him.


If he wants to move on, he will have to be willing to waive his no-trade offer with a team that offers at least a decent deal. 

[Fafnir]

I've explained in other spots why I feel Jordon is worse than giving KG away so I won't do that again.  But if the option is KG retiring before July 1st or at any point next year, you jump all over that.  It helps us infinitely more than Jordon for two years who I'd argue is actually a negative to both our team and our salary cap.

But KG wants to play. He wants the 20 million dollars he's signed up for.
Do we cut him and pay him his money while getting nothing?
Or do we let him go play for a trophy after everything he's done for our organization and the assets he'll net us in return in the process?
I'm not saying one or the other is right, but it's a tough spot to be in.
6 months ago we thought 'KG has a no trade clause- he will retire and the only real asset we'll have is Pierce's expiring deal'.
Why not let him go play ball for 2 more years and get something potentially good for our future in Jordan and his potential? Not to mention the two draft picks.
What would be funny is if they did this trade and then CP3 left or KG got injured. Those late first rounders just turned into 10-20 picks lol.

If KG is happy playing with the Celtics, I am happy watching him.


If he wants to move on, he will have to be willing to waive his no-trade offer with a team that offers at least a decent deal.

Do you just want an expiring contract for him?

[wdleehi]

This is the NY Knicks plan when Ewing was at the end of his career.

No its not, not unless you assume that Danny will automatically give Jordan a contract extension.

The Knicks recieved contracts that extended beyond what Ewing's contract was in Glen Rice and Luc Longley.

Again if you assume that you as a GM are going overpay whatever talent you acquire then you might as well resign.

And they kept trading those pieces into the future.


It wasn't until they got someone like Walsh who wasn't afraid to wait out contracts that they improved.  (something he did with the Pacers as well)

[eugen]

Be mad of DA? Of course. Except 2007 when he made a great job, after that he made catastrophic moves and decision. In my opinion he is not the right GM in order to lead you to great future. Nothing personal against him but is matter of professionalism that he does not have. Sorry.

[wdleehi]

I've explained in other spots why I feel Jordon is worse than giving KG away so I won't do that again.  But if the option is KG retiring before July 1st or at any point next year, you jump all over that.  It helps us infinitely more than Jordon for two years who I'd argue is actually a negative to both our team and our salary cap.

But KG wants to play. He wants the 20 million dollars he's signed up for.
Do we cut him and pay him his money while getting nothing?
Or do we let him go play for a trophy after everything he's done for our organization and the assets he'll net us in return in the process?
I'm not saying one or the other is right, but it's a tough spot to be in.
6 months ago we thought 'KG has a no trade clause- he will retire and the only real asset we'll have is Pierce's expiring deal'.
Why not let him go play ball for 2 more years and get something potentially good for our future in Jordan and his potential? Not to mention the two draft picks.
What would be funny is if they did this trade and then CP3 left or KG got injured. Those late first rounders just turned into 10-20 picks lol.

If KG is happy playing with the Celtics, I am happy watching him.


If he wants to move on, he will have to be willing to waive his no-trade offer with a team that offers at least a decent deal.

Do you just want an expiring contract for him?

Not really. 


I rather just let him retire with the Celtics. 

[chambers]

Of course he has a choice.  If the offers for your players are terrible, don't trade.

So let KG retire? Cut Pierce and pay him 5 million and don't get any picks, assets or anything? Don't let them compete for a championship now that we can't get one for them?
That helps us down the road doesn't it? Sometimes you have to forego pride for common sense and to give your future the best opportunity to be successful.
It's a tough pill to swallow and it consists of taking the majority of emotion out of your decision. This is almost impossible though as a sports fan because trades like this are a metaphor for 'the end' of an era.
All good things come to an end. Lets get something for a 37 year old KG while we can. Consider this a blessing that we'll get some picks and a young guy who we might be able to turn into a decent asset down the line.

Cap flexibility helps more the Jordon. 



The Celtics would have traded KG for him.  They will not let him just "expire"


They will either have to trade him (and his trade value is hurt by that contract) or extend him (with the likely raise)





What is this fear of guys leaving with out getting back something?  Draft picks teams have traded in the past for just money?

You've mentioned cap flexibility a few times. Where do we get this flexibility from? We can't force KG to retire. We owe him 20 million. he's not giving up 20 million because Danny decided to blow it up. The money's gotta be paid either way and there's no one else that wants KG's 20 million and KG won't let anyone but the Clippers pay that 20 million if it's not the Celtics.
The point of getting Jordan is that he either gets better in 2 years playing with Rondo at 35 minutes a night as the number one big man option, or he stays about the same and we trade his expiring deal when 2015 free agency comes along- getting the 'cap flexibility' that you're talking about.

[Fafnir]

This is the NY Knicks plan when Ewing was at the end of his career.

No its not, not unless you assume that Danny will automatically give Jordan a contract extension.

The Knicks recieved contracts that extended beyond what Ewing's contract was in Glen Rice and Luc Longley.

Again if you assume that you as a GM are going overpay whatever talent you acquire then you might as well resign.

And they kept trading those pieces into the future.


It wasn't until they got someone like Walsh who wasn't afraid to wait out contracts that they improved.  (something he did with the Pacers as well)

Exactly which is why this isn't the same deal at all, Jordan's deal runs as long as KGs. You get two seasons to try and get him to reach his potential.

If you're assuming that the C's are going to be run like the Knicks in the early 2000s then you should just advocate firing Danny.