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Author Topic: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG  (Read 5389 times)

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Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« on: June 12, 2013, 01:54:28 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 I used to argue that if Kevin was a Spur from day one and got to play with Parker, Ginobli, David Robinson, Etc. That he would have won as many titles. Now I think not quite he's just never been the low post go to guy that Tim has been since his rookie year. Mostly due to the big fundamentals strength and weight advantage.

 So how many titles would you guess Kevin would have one if he played for the Spurs with the exact same teammates.
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2013, 02:19:47 AM »

Offline Yogi

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Quote from: KG Living Legend on June 12, 2013, 01:54:28 AM

 I used to argue that if Kevin was a Spur from day one and got to play with Parker, Ginobli, David Robinson, Etc. That he would have won as many titles. Now I think not quite he's just never been the low post go to guy that Tim has been since his rookie year. Mostly due to the big fundamentals strength and weight advantage.

 So how many titles would you guess Kevin would have one if he played for the Spurs with the exact same teammates.

KG started off as a super athletic 3-4.  Tim Duncan was a highly skilled 4-5.  They both changed the power forward position in different ways.  Timmy paved the way for guys like Marc Gasol, Greg Monroe etc.  Big guys who operate in the high post.  KG paved the way for Joakim Noah, Lamarcus Aldridge etc. Stretch 4s with the ability to play and guard in the perimeter.  The Spurs would've won just as many rings with KG instead of Timmy, but in different ways. 
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2013, 02:23:37 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Agree with Yogi.

On top of that, I think Timmy D is more consistent but KG could make the team play beyond its potential in a pinch.

KG would have made the team, say, beat the Grizz the time the Grizzlies made that crazy run.

Different, just as good as each other, KG would have won a similar amount of championships.
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 02:25:02 AM »

Offline Smutzy#9

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they are arguably the 2 best PF's to ever play the game. Kevin was considered more of a defensive anchor than tim ever was. Tim is probably the better scorer and rebounder than Kevin was. But you look at the stats and Kevin is the more complete player. Only dude in league history with

25000 points
10000 rebounds
5000 assists
1500 steals
1500 blocks

I honestly dont know how many rings he would have won if he was a spur. You could ask how many rings would he have won if he had more support and a coach like pop over the years that tim had.

They are #1 and 2 on my list with malone 3
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 02:30:26 AM »

Offline ianboyextreme

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I have always been of the opinion that had KG been in SA, he would have had just as many if not more rings.

Arguably the most versatile player to ever play the game and one of the most well rounded as well. Both are so close in comparison (Duncan and KG).
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2013, 03:16:39 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Quote from: KG Living Legend on June 12, 2013, 01:54:28 AM

 I used to argue that if Kevin was a Spur from day one and got to play with Parker, Ginobli, David Robinson, Etc. That he would have won as many titles. Now I think not quite he's just never been the low post go to guy that Tim has been since his rookie year. Mostly due to the big fundamentals strength and weight advantage.

 So how many titles would you guess Kevin would have one if he played for the Spurs with the exact same teammates.

Career-wise, they both come out scarily close together as far as the post-season goes:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=duncati01&y1=2013&p2=garneke01&y2=2013

But when you leave it to the pre-Celtics trade KG, which is really who we're thinking about when we hypothesize:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=duncati01&y1=2007&p2=garneke01&y2=2007


Ultimately, I think one fewer: I don't think KG has ever elevated his game as much as played at a consistent balls-out level, and he was, shall we say, gunshy of the big moment in his early playoff years. No way we see a 45-15 point game from him when it matters.
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2013, 03:55:54 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Quote from: D.o.s. on June 12, 2013, 03:16:39 AM
Quote from: KG Living Legend on June 12, 2013, 01:54:28 AM

 I used to argue that if Kevin was a Spur from day one and got to play with Parker, Ginobli, David Robinson, Etc. That he would have won as many titles. Now I think not quite he's just never been the low post go to guy that Tim has been since his rookie year. Mostly due to the big fundamentals strength and weight advantage.

 So how many titles would you guess Kevin would have one if he played for the Spurs with the exact same teammates.

Career-wise, they both come out scarily close together as far as the post-season goes:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=duncati01&y1=2013&p2=garneke01&y2=2013

But when you leave it to the pre-Celtics trade KG, which is really who we're thinking about when we hypothesize:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=duncati01&y1=2007&p2=garneke01&y2=2007


Ultimately, I think one fewer: I don't think KG has ever elevated his game as much as played at a consistent balls-out level, and he was, shall we say, gunshy of the big moment in his early playoff years. No way we see a 45-15 point game from him when it matters.

He's not a volume scorer, but still capable of knocking down huge shots down the stretch of playoff games. That was the knock on him in Minnesota, and he has not shown that here in Boston that it's clearly not true. Unselfish and gunshy are different. He doesn't force shots often, but also rarely passes up good ones.

Still, he can be a beast in the playoffs. His numbers in Minny were crazy. 2008 he was obviously excellent. 2012 he was a monster.

And if you don't think he is capable of taking over an important game, you'd be wrong:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200405190MIN.html

Scored 14 (and only player on team to make a FG) in the 4th quarter of a game 7.
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2013, 04:03:28 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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In case it got buried, I'm talking about switching Minny KG and that era's Duncan.

That said, I was unaware of that playoff game. Nice bit of digging, and I (happily) stand corrected!
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2013, 07:35:36 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Tim is definitely the better post player.   I think KG might be a better defender.  I think they both are good shooters.  Tim is the better rebounder.
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2013, 07:49:39 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Duncan is still the best PF to ever play the game. 



Just about every award or honor KG got, Duncan got it more.

KG 1 time champ
Duncan 4 time (with three final MVPs)

KG MVP
Duncan 2 time MVP

KG all-nba team 9 times (4 times 1st team)
Duncan all-nba team 14 times (10 times 1st team)

KG all-def team 12 times (9 first teams)
Duncan all def 14 times (8 first teams)

KG does have a def player of the year Duncan does not.




And remember, KG made his 1st all-star game the year before Duncan entered the league.
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2013, 08:20:29 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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KG is an all-time great.  Duncan is better.

Duncan has had more individual success, and more team success.  He's had an equal peak, and a longer period of dominance.  This season should have ended whatever argument there might have been.
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2013, 08:44:28 AM »

Offline moiso

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Quote from: D.o.s. on June 12, 2013, 03:16:39 AM
Quote from: KG Living Legend on June 12, 2013, 01:54:28 AM

 I used to argue that if Kevin was a Spur from day one and got to play with Parker, Ginobli, David Robinson, Etc. That he would have won as many titles. Now I think not quite he's just never been the low post go to guy that Tim has been since his rookie year. Mostly due to the big fundamentals strength and weight advantage.

 So how many titles would you guess Kevin would have one if he played for the Spurs with the exact same teammates.

Career-wise, they both come out scarily close together as far as the post-season goes:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=duncati01&y1=2013&p2=garneke01&y2=2013

But when you leave it to the pre-Celtics trade KG, which is really who we're thinking about when we hypothesize:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=duncati01&y1=2007&p2=garneke01&y2=2007


Ultimately, I think one fewer: I don't think KG has ever elevated his game as much as played at a consistent balls-out level, and he was, shall we say, gunshy of the big moment in his early playoff years. No way we see a 45-15 point game from him when it matters.
The last statement kind of sums it up for me.  KG was equally if not more talented than Tim, but Duncan used to step up big time when it mattered.  I recall several fourth quarters in playoff games when KG kept relying on Wally Szcerbiak to win the games.  Those games really stand out in my mind when I look at KG's career vs Duncan's.
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2013, 09:06:24 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Quote from: Roy H. on June 12, 2013, 08:20:29 AM
KG is an all-time great.  Duncan is better.

Duncan has had more individual success, and more team success.  He's had an equal peak, and a longer period of dominance.  This season should have ended whatever argument there might have been.

Gotta go with this too. Duncan is still a bonafide superstar in this league and has the numbers and game play to back it up. Making the all nba team at this point in his career is silly. KG has greatly decreased at this point while Duncan continues to shine.
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2013, 07:17:57 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Duncan is still the best PF to ever play the game. 

I think Kevin McHale had he not been playing with Larry and behind Max and Chief at times might have been just as good if not better.

Isn't Kevin McHale the only guy to take meaningful amount of shots and shoot 60% from the field and 80% from the line?

From what I have read about him from Larry, they guy didn't even give it his all either.   He was a joker and not as serious as b ball as Larry.   

If I had to pick one guy to score in the low post with my life on the line, I am picking McHale.
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Re: Does anyone not think Tim is better than KG
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2013, 07:27:29 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Quote from: Celtics4ever on June 12, 2013, 07:17:57 PM
Quote
Duncan is still the best PF to ever play the game. 

I think Kevin McHale had he not been playing with Larry and behind Max and Chief at times might have been just as good if not better.

Isn't Kevin McHale the only guy to take meaningful amount of shots and shoot 60% from the field and 80% from the line?

From what I have read about him from Larry, they guy didn't even give it his all either.   He was a joker and not as serious as b ball as Larry.   

If I had to pick one guy to score in the low post with my life on the line, I am picking McHale.

McHale, my fav Celtic during the 80's, and of all time.

Duncan could never touch him in my book.

Of that "type" of PF, though, they're 1-2 in my book.

Of the more all-around, non-back to basket PF's, I gotta give the top spot all-time to...

TOMMY BABY!



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