« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Why won't Doc try going big?  (Read 4115 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Why won't Doc try going big?
« on: April 29, 2013, 10:54:13 AM »

Offline danglertx

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2015
  • Tommy Points: 210
Going small plays right into the hands of the Knicks.  We have no rim protection and frankly, their small players are better than ours.

It seems to make perfect sense to me, you force Carmello to play defense on a Celtic big or you force NY to use Martin and Chandler who are both less than great offensively at the same time. 

Say Garnett and God forbid Randolph gets to play come in together.  Start a play with both of them on the low block on opposite sides.  Chandler is going to guard Garnett.  Run Garnett off a Shav pick to the top of the key and have Shavlik pin his man.  Garnett is a good enough passer and Shavlik is a good enough guy getting position that he could get the ball in a really good post up spot within 6 or so feet of the basket.  Make Melo defend him or Martin for that matter.

If the wing defenders sink in, it should open up corner 3's. 

If the Knicks stick Melo on Shav or Wilcox, let either of those guys guard Kidd or whoever is a spot up shooter the Knicks have out there.  I'm not worried about any of their guys driving other than Melo, Felton, and JR.

One more thing, down the stretch of regulation Sunday the Knicks were playing Kidd on Green and the Celtics didn't post him up once.  The Celtics should have forced the Knicks to get Kidd off the floor by posting up whoever he was guarding. 
Logged
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2013, 11:08:09 AM »

Offline Chief

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21259
  • Tommy Points: 2451
This type of thinking is why Clifford Ray was ran out of town. :'(

TP, I 100% agree.
Logged
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
Larry Bird
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2013, 11:41:56 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5227
  • Tommy Points: 1065
Quote from: danglertx on April 29, 2013, 10:54:13 AM
Going small plays right into the hands of the Knicks.  We have no rim protection and frankly, their small players are better than ours.

It seems to make perfect sense to me, you force Carmello to play defense on a Celtic big or you force NY to use Martin and Chandler who are both less than great offensively at the same time. 

Say Garnett and God forbid Randolph gets to play come in together. 

The primary issue isn't on offense, it's on defense. Do you want Wilcox or Randolph guarding Carmelo?

And while "forcing Carmelo to play defense on a Celtic big" is a good idea in principle, Wilcox and Randolph are so limited offensively that this doesn't buy us much.
Logged
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2013, 11:43:11 AM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
Lack of quality big men. Randolph/Wilcox aren't the types who can punish teams in the post. Furthermore neither are offensive threats who can beat up on smaller defenders reliably.

We'd get a few more rebounds but the spacing would make it harder for the C's to score or even generate quality shots. Then on the other end the Knicks would happily either generate 3s or layups/fouls due to Wilcox/Randolph/KG not being comfortable rotating around and playing a perimeter threat.
Logged
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2013, 11:44:21 AM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
Quote from: Boris Badenov on April 29, 2013, 11:41:56 AM
Quote from: danglertx on April 29, 2013, 10:54:13 AM
Going small plays right into the hands of the Knicks.  We have no rim protection and frankly, their small players are better than ours.

It seems to make perfect sense to me, you force Carmello to play defense on a Celtic big or you force NY to use Martin and Chandler who are both less than great offensively at the same time. 

Say Garnett and God forbid Randolph gets to play come in together. 

The primary issue isn't on offense, it's on defense. Do you want Wilcox or Randolph guarding Carmelo?

And while "forcing Carmelo to play defense on a Celtic big" is a good idea in principle, Wilcox and Randolph are so limited offensively that this doesn't buy us much.
+1

Plus defensively we've done an okay job on the Knicks, the C's just haven't been able to get enough buckets. We've easily played good enough defense for this to be an even series.

That's why Lee is out of the rotation for Terry/Crawfor who are more of a threat offensively.
Logged
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2013, 11:47:22 AM »

Offline clover

  • Front Page Moderator
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6130
  • Tommy Points: 315
There are some teams where I'd be curious to have seen KG and Shav out there together, but against the Knicks I'd just rather have Shav or Wilcox in some of the time that KG sits.  Having Bass on Melo is another reason not to move him to center when Melo is in and KG is out.
Logged
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 11:57:00 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37794
  • Tommy Points: 3030
he is hard headed and does;t want to admit his small ball plan is foolishness .

Thing about decent bigs are they are RARE(ones than can actually play)  and EXPENSIVE.

I 'd rather have a a pair of excellent bigs than 6 swing men who can't play consistent, shoot consistent or play lockdown defense.

We need some tuff  guys to guard the paint ,  trying to out score the HEAT is foolish ,  but you might beat them up enough to win.



Logged
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 11:58:55 AM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34114
  • Tommy Points: 1612
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
No big talent.  It is just that simple.



When Doc had big talent, he played big talent. 
Logged
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 12:27:50 PM »

Offline danglertx

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2015
  • Tommy Points: 210
Quote from: Boris Badenov on April 29, 2013, 11:41:56 AM
Quote from: danglertx on April 29, 2013, 10:54:13 AM
Going small plays right into the hands of the Knicks.  We have no rim protection and frankly, their small players are better than ours.

It seems to make perfect sense to me, you force Carmello to play defense on a Celtic big or you force NY to use Martin and Chandler who are both less than great offensively at the same time. 

Say Garnett and God forbid Randolph gets to play come in together. 

The primary issue isn't on offense, it's on defense. Do you want Wilcox or Randolph guarding Carmelo?

And while "forcing Carmelo to play defense on a Celtic big" is a good idea in principle, Wilcox and Randolph are so limited offensively that this doesn't buy us much.

No I wouldn't put Shav or Garnett on Melo.  I'd leave that to Bass on our smaller line ups and Pierce and Green when we have two bigs playing.  I'd put one of Shav or Garnett on Chandler who you really don't have to guard and the other on Kidd who you just have to be close enough to keep from shooting a 3.  If Kidd wants to drive on Garnett, I'd live with that for their offense all day every day.

Like I said earlier, you really only have to worry about three of their players driving, Melo, Felton and JR and even JR would rather shoot a fall away 18ft shot than drive.  Everyone else can drive and I'm OK with our chances of defending them. So at any one time the Celtics can hide two players defensively.
Logged
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2013, 12:32:08 PM »

Online slamtheking

  • NCE
  • Walter Brown
  • ********************************
  • Posts: 32330
  • Tommy Points: 10099
Why won't Doc try going big?

he misunderstood his wife when she said "size doesn't matter"  ;)
Logged
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2013, 12:37:03 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13129
  • Tommy Points: 885
Quote from: wdleehi on April 29, 2013, 11:58:55 AM
No big talent.  It is just that simple.



When Doc had big talent, he played big talent.

I mean, this exactly...

Who are we going to play to "go big". KG is our only big man.
Logged
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2013, 12:41:27 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
Quote from: danglertx on April 29, 2013, 12:27:50 PM
Quote from: Boris Badenov on April 29, 2013, 11:41:56 AM
Quote from: danglertx on April 29, 2013, 10:54:13 AM
Going small plays right into the hands of the Knicks.  We have no rim protection and frankly, their small players are better than ours.

It seems to make perfect sense to me, you force Carmello to play defense on a Celtic big or you force NY to use Martin and Chandler who are both less than great offensively at the same time. 

Say Garnett and God forbid Randolph gets to play come in together. 

The primary issue isn't on offense, it's on defense. Do you want Wilcox or Randolph guarding Carmelo?

And while "forcing Carmelo to play defense on a Celtic big" is a good idea in principle, Wilcox and Randolph are so limited offensively that this doesn't buy us much.

No I wouldn't put Shav or Garnett on Melo.  I'd leave that to Bass on our smaller line ups and Pierce and Green when we have two bigs playing.  I'd put one of Shav or Garnett on Chandler who you really don't have to guard and the other on Kidd who you just have to be close enough to keep from shooting a 3.  If Kidd wants to drive on Garnett, I'd live with that for their offense all day every day.

Like I said earlier, you really only have to worry about three of their players driving, Melo, Felton and JR and even JR would rather shoot a fall away 18ft shot than drive.  Everyone else can drive and I'm OK with our chances of defending them. So at any one time the Celtics can hide two players defensively.
Garnett on Jason Kidd... ok then, moving right along.
Logged
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2013, 12:55:35 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5227
  • Tommy Points: 1065
Quote from: danglertx on April 29, 2013, 12:27:50 PM
Quote from: Boris Badenov on April 29, 2013, 11:41:56 AM
Quote from: danglertx on April 29, 2013, 10:54:13 AM
Going small plays right into the hands of the Knicks.  We have no rim protection and frankly, their small players are better than ours.

It seems to make perfect sense to me, you force Carmello to play defense on a Celtic big or you force NY to use Martin and Chandler who are both less than great offensively at the same time. 

Say Garnett and God forbid Randolph gets to play come in together. 

The primary issue isn't on offense, it's on defense. Do you want Wilcox or Randolph guarding Carmelo?

And while "forcing Carmelo to play defense on a Celtic big" is a good idea in principle, Wilcox and Randolph are so limited offensively that this doesn't buy us much.

No I wouldn't put Shav or Garnett on Melo.  I'd leave that to Bass on our smaller line ups and Pierce and Green when we have two bigs playing.  I'd put one of Shav or Garnett on Chandler who you really don't have to guard and the other on Kidd who you just have to be close enough to keep from shooting a 3.  If Kidd wants to drive on Garnett, I'd live with that for their offense all day every day.

Like I said earlier, you really only have to worry about three of their players driving, Melo, Felton and JR and even JR would rather shoot a fall away 18ft shot than drive.  Everyone else can drive and I'm OK with our chances of defending them. So at any one time the Celtics can hide two players defensively.

OK, so you either put our best (only?) interior defender and rebounder, KG, on the perimeter guarding a PG?

Or, you have Shavlik Randolph on Kidd? You don't see that as just a devastating mismatch for the Knicks? For one, it completely negates Randolph's rebounding - which is, as far as I can tell, the only reason you'd want him on the floor. Second, Kidd could score at will.

Logged
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2013, 12:57:51 PM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7022
  • Tommy Points: 468
Quote from: kozlodoev on April 29, 2013, 12:41:27 PM
Quote from: danglertx on April 29, 2013, 12:27:50 PM
Quote from: Boris Badenov on April 29, 2013, 11:41:56 AM
Quote from: danglertx on April 29, 2013, 10:54:13 AM
Going small plays right into the hands of the Knicks.  We have no rim protection and frankly, their small players are better than ours.

It seems to make perfect sense to me, you force Carmello to play defense on a Celtic big or you force NY to use Martin and Chandler who are both less than great offensively at the same time. 

Say Garnett and God forbid Randolph gets to play come in together. 

The primary issue isn't on offense, it's on defense. Do you want Wilcox or Randolph guarding Carmelo?

And while "forcing Carmelo to play defense on a Celtic big" is a good idea in principle, Wilcox and Randolph are so limited offensively that this doesn't buy us much.

No I wouldn't put Shav or Garnett on Melo.  I'd leave that to Bass on our smaller line ups and Pierce and Green when we have two bigs playing.  I'd put one of Shav or Garnett on Chandler who you really don't have to guard and the other on Kidd who you just have to be close enough to keep from shooting a 3.  If Kidd wants to drive on Garnett, I'd live with that for their offense all day every day.

Like I said earlier, you really only have to worry about three of their players driving, Melo, Felton and JR and even JR would rather shoot a fall away 18ft shot than drive.  Everyone else can drive and I'm OK with our chances of defending them. So at any one time the Celtics can hide two players defensively.
Garnett on Jason Kidd... ok then, moving right along.
Seriously, because having Garnett out on the perimeter is going to help our rebounding.
Logged
Re: Why won't Doc try going big?
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2013, 01:08:39 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
I would assume it's because Doc believes that the best chance of winning the game comes from putting our best players on the floor.
Logged
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »