How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

[PhoSita]

I'll say this --

John Wall is currently having a better regular season than Rondo's ever had.  The level Wall is at right now is higher than any level Rondo's been at during the regular season.

But the playoffs is a different story, and we'll have to wait at least until next season to see whether or not Wall can play like this in the post-season.

  His level of scoring is better than we've seen from Rondo in the regular season. Is his level of anything else higher, or even close to as high?

Wall is helping his team win.  The Wiz were a low lottery team without him, now they are playing above 0.500

He must be doing something right and that isn't a particularly good team he is carrying.

He may not keep it up; he may not ever get a chance to show what he can do leading a good team, but I think it is fair to give him his due for what he is doing with this team this season.

  I didn't say that he was playing poorly or that he wasn't helping his team win.

  Edit: Rondo's gone through stretches during the regular season when many consider him to be playing better than any other pg in the game. Are you saying he's playing at a level higher than that?

Yeah, I'm saying if you look at Wall's numbers in the past month or two, he's playing like MVP-season Derrick Rose.  For the season, he's 18 pts 7.6 ast 4 reb 1.3 stl .8 blk in 32 minutes a game on .466 / .303 / .819 shooting. 

That's an All-Star season, and carrying a crappy team that lacks any real secondary scoring options those are remarkable numbers.  Rondo could not do it.

Again, I'm not saying he's better than the Rondo we've seen in the playoffs.  Playoffs Rondo is another story.  And Rondo has had games (or stretches of 3-4 games) in the regular season where he's been as good or better.  But over the course of months, or over an entire regular season?  No, Rondo has not performed at that level, shouldering that level of responsibility. 

To be fair, Rondo's always had teammates like Pierce, Allen, and Garnett, so he hasn't been forced to take on that kind of responsibility.

[nickagneta]

Wall's season this year isn't even as good as Rondo's season this season. 4 more assists per game means 8 additional points scored by his team. Wall is only averaging a little more than 4 PPG more than Rondo. Then factor in Rondo rebounds more, steals more, and shoots better and that Rondo had to carry this team for most of the beginning of this year and I think Rondo's year this year is much better than Wall's.

Rondo has led the league in assists for three years with over 11 per game. He's led the league in steals. He is a constant double double guy and has been a perennial top 1-3 in the league in triple doubles for years. He's been on the All-Defense team  4 times and been a third team All-NBA.

Sorry, nothing Wall has done in one season has exceeded what Rondo has done for 2-3 of Rondo's seasons.

[SHAQATTACK]

absolutely not.

[pearljammer10]

He's great and has done wonders for his team but he is not a better point guard than Rondo.

[Django]

Wall's season this year isn't even as good as Rondo's season this season. 4 more assists per game means 8 additional points scored by his team. Wall is only averaging a little more than 4 PPG more than Rondo. Then factor in Rondo rebounds more, steals more, and shoots better and that Rondo had to carry this team for most of the beginning of this year and I think Rondo's year this year is much better than Wall's.

Rondo has led the league in assists for three years with over 11 per game. He's led the league in steals. He is a constant double double guy and has been a perennial top 1-3 in the league in triple doubles for years. He's been on the All-Defense team  4 times and been a third team All-NBA.

Sorry, nothing Wall has done in one season has exceeded what Rondo has done for 2-3 of Rondo's seasons.

The thing you're missing is...

Rondo the past few years has been groomed on a team with 3 HOF players. He was brought up in a different environment. Even with them no longer at their prime it still made/makes life easy for Rondo. Sure there is no Allen this year. But Rondo has had MUCH better support than Wall. Lets compare this year with more detailed analysis. Because Wall's team (just guessing) has a better record with him starting than when Rondo started this year with the C's. Now that alone doesnt make Wall better but that lets you know of his impact. Wall isnt in a Derrick Rose like situation where team performs very well WITHOUT him.  Lets look at the #s Per 36 mins. Remember Wall only plays 32 mins this year because they eased him back in off his knee injury.

Wall per 36
20.2 pts 8.5 asts 4.4 bds 1.5stls

Rondo per 36 this year
13.2 pts 10.6 asts 5.4 bds 1.8 stls


Wall's stats are 21/9/5 if he played Rondo's minutes of 37.4 a night (rounded up a few)

Now factor in the fact that Wall is just 22 years old. Lets take a look at 22 year Rondo when he was on a team with the Big 3 while they were younger and better.

22 year old Rondo per 36 mins (he actually played 33 mpg that year)
13/9/6/2....

 vs. Wall's 20/9/4 at 22.

Again, this isnt to say Wall is better than Rondo. He's not. But you have to factor in situation, environment and development. I'm just thankful Wall didnt get drafted by a team like the Pacers or Nets or they'd be even more tough imo. (Yea I'd take Wall over Deron Williams)

[BballTim]

I'll say this --

John Wall is currently having a better regular season than Rondo's ever had.  The level Wall is at right now is higher than any level Rondo's been at during the regular season.

But the playoffs is a different story, and we'll have to wait at least until next season to see whether or not Wall can play like this in the post-season.

  His level of scoring is better than we've seen from Rondo in the regular season. Is his level of anything else higher, or even close to as high?

Wall is helping his team win.  The Wiz were a low lottery team without him, now they are playing above 0.500

He must be doing something right and that isn't a particularly good team he is carrying.

He may not keep it up; he may not ever get a chance to show what he can do leading a good team, but I think it is fair to give him his due for what he is doing with this team this season.

  I didn't say that he was playing poorly or that he wasn't helping his team win.

  Edit: Rondo's gone through stretches during the regular season when many consider him to be playing better than any other pg in the game. Are you saying he's playing at a level higher than that?

Yeah, I'm saying if you look at Wall's numbers in the past month or two, he's playing like MVP-season Derrick Rose.  For the season, he's 18 pts 7.6 ast 4 reb 1.3 stl .8 blk in 32 minutes a game on .466 / .303 / .819 shooting. 

That's an All-Star season, and carrying a crappy team that lacks any real secondary scoring options those are remarkable numbers.  Rondo could not do it.

Again, I'm not saying he's better than the Rondo we've seen in the playoffs.  Playoffs Rondo is another story.  And Rondo has had games (or stretches of 3-4 games) in the regular season where he's been as good or better.  But over the course of months, or over an entire regular season?  No, Rondo has not performed at that level, shouldering that level of responsibility. 

To be fair, Rondo's always had teammates like Pierce, Allen, and Garnett, so he hasn't been forced to take on that kind of responsibility.

  Again, over the last month+ of the season many people were saying Rondo was the best pg in the league, I don't think Wall's eclipsed that level of play. Saying that Rondo never has stretches of play longer than 3-4 games when he plays at Wall's level is silly.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Nope.

He has the talent, but does not have Rondo's intangibles (or have not seen it yet).

[Django]

I'll say this --

John Wall is currently having a better regular season than Rondo's ever had.  The level Wall is at right now is higher than any level Rondo's been at during the regular season.

But the playoffs is a different story, and we'll have to wait at least until next season to see whether or not Wall can play like this in the post-season.

  His level of scoring is better than we've seen from Rondo in the regular season. Is his level of anything else higher, or even close to as high?

Wall is helping his team win.  The Wiz were a low lottery team without him, now they are playing above 0.500

He must be doing something right and that isn't a particularly good team he is carrying.

He may not keep it up; he may not ever get a chance to show what he can do leading a good team, but I think it is fair to give him his due for what he is doing with this team this season.

  I didn't say that he was playing poorly or that he wasn't helping his team win.

  Edit: Rondo's gone through stretches during the regular season when many consider him to be playing better than any other pg in the game. Are you saying he's playing at a level higher than that?

Yeah, I'm saying if you look at Wall's numbers in the past month or two, he's playing like MVP-season Derrick Rose.  For the season, he's 18 pts 7.6 ast 4 reb 1.3 stl .8 blk in 32 minutes a game on .466 / .303 / .819 shooting. 

That's an All-Star season, and carrying a crappy team that lacks any real secondary scoring options those are remarkable numbers.  Rondo could not do it.

Again, I'm not saying he's better than the Rondo we've seen in the playoffs.  Playoffs Rondo is another story.  And Rondo has had games (or stretches of 3-4 games) in the regular season where he's been as good or better.  But over the course of months, or over an entire regular season?  No, Rondo has not performed at that level, shouldering that level of responsibility. 

To be fair, Rondo's always had teammates like Pierce, Allen, and Garnett, so he hasn't been forced to take on that kind of responsibility.

  Again, over the last month+ of the season many people were saying Rondo was the best pg in the league, I don't think Wall's eclipsed that level of play. Saying that Rondo never has stretches of play longer than 3-4 games when he plays at Wall's level is silly.

Wall has had the 2nd best PER for PG's behind Chris Paul the past month.

He's had 3rd best PER for ALL PLAYERS the last two weeks (behind Melo/LeBron) 

Who is the 2nd best player on that team. Nene? Okafor? Ariza?

Martell Webster is back relevant in the NBA because of Wall.

[BballTim]

Wall's season this year isn't even as good as Rondo's season this season. 4 more assists per game means 8 additional points scored by his team. Wall is only averaging a little more than 4 PPG more than Rondo. Then factor in Rondo rebounds more, steals more, and shoots better and that Rondo had to carry this team for most of the beginning of this year and I think Rondo's year this year is much better than Wall's.

Rondo has led the league in assists for three years with over 11 per game. He's led the league in steals. He is a constant double double guy and has been a perennial top 1-3 in the league in triple doubles for years. He's been on the All-Defense team  4 times and been a third team All-NBA.

Sorry, nothing Wall has done in one season has exceeded what Rondo has done for 2-3 of Rondo's seasons.

The thing you're missing is...

Rondo the past few years has been groomed on a team with 3 HOF players. He was brought up in a different environment. Even with them no longer at their prime it still made/makes life easy for Rondo. Sure there is no Allen this year. But Rondo has had MUCH better support than Wall. Lets compare this year with more detailed analysis. Because Wall's team (just guessing) has a better record with him starting than when Rondo started this year with the C's. Now that alone doesnt make Wall better but that lets you know of his impact. Wall isnt in a Derrick Rose like situation where team performs very well WITHOUT him.  Lets look at the #s Per 36 mins. Remember Wall only plays 32 mins this year because they eased him back in off his knee injury.

Wall per 36
20.2 pts 8.5 asts 4.4 bds 1.5stls

Rondo per 36 this year
13.2 pts 10.6 asts 5.4 bds 1.8 stls


Wall's stats are 21/9/5 if he played Rondo's minutes of 37.4 a night (rounded up a few)

Now factor in the fact that Wall is just 22 years old. Lets take a look at 22 year Rondo when he was on a team with the Big 3 while they were younger and better.

22 year old Rondo per 36 mins (he actually played 33 mpg that year)
13/9/6/2....

 vs. Wall's 20/9/4 at 22.

Again, this isnt to say Wall is better than Rondo. He's not. But you have to factor in situation, environment and development. I'm just thankful Wall didnt get drafted by a team like the Pacers or Nets or they'd be even more tough imo. (Yea I'd take Wall over Deron Williams)

  The thing you're missing is that playing with weaker teammates leads to better individual stats. That's why Ray and Paul average 5-6 more ppg playing separately than they did playing together. And I wouldn't read too much into Wall at 22 vs Rondo at 22. Rondo took longer to develop than most of the better point guards, that's why he was drafted in the 20s and not the top 2-3 players in his draft. You see a lot less improvement after year 3 in top picks like Paul/Williams/Rose/Westbrook than you did with Rondo.

[moiso]

Wall is much better at generating and hitting free throws- that's about it at this point.

[chambers]

Wall's season this year isn't even as good as Rondo's season this season. 4 more assists per game means 8 additional points scored by his team. Wall is only averaging a little more than 4 PPG more than Rondo. Then factor in Rondo rebounds more, steals more, and shoots better and that Rondo had to carry this team for most of the beginning of this year and I think Rondo's year this year is much better than Wall's.

Rondo has led the league in assists for three years with over 11 per game. He's led the league in steals. He is a constant double double guy and has been a perennial top 1-3 in the league in triple doubles for years. He's been on the All-Defense team  4 times and been a third team All-NBA.

Sorry, nothing Wall has done in one season has exceeded what Rondo has done for 2-3 of Rondo's seasons.

The thing you're missing is...

Rondo the past few years has been groomed on a team with 3 HOF players. He was brought up in a different environment. Even with them no longer at their prime it still made/makes life easy for Rondo. Sure there is no Allen this year. But Rondo has had MUCH better support than Wall. Lets compare this year with more detailed analysis. Because Wall's team (just guessing) has a better record with him starting than when Rondo started this year with the C's. Now that alone doesnt make Wall better but that lets you know of his impact. Wall isnt in a Derrick Rose like situation where team performs very well WITHOUT him.  Lets look at the #s Per 36 mins. Remember Wall only plays 32 mins this year because they eased him back in off his knee injury.

Wall per 36
20.2 pts 8.5 asts 4.4 bds 1.5stls

Rondo per 36 this year
13.2 pts 10.6 asts 5.4 bds 1.8 stls


Wall's stats are 21/9/5 if he played Rondo's minutes of 37.4 a night (rounded up a few)

Now factor in the fact that Wall is just 22 years old. Lets take a look at 22 year Rondo when he was on a team with the Big 3 while they were younger and better.

22 year old Rondo per 36 mins (he actually played 33 mpg that year)
13/9/6/2....

 vs. Wall's 20/9/4 at 22.

Again, this isnt to say Wall is better than Rondo. He's not. But you have to factor in situation, environment and development. I'm just thankful Wall didnt get drafted by a team like the Pacers or Nets or they'd be even more tough imo. (Yea I'd take Wall over Deron Williams)

I agree that at 22 he's looking better than rondo, although remember that when you include the big 3 as benefits to rondo, also remember he's had less opportunity to score with so many elite scoring options around him...so yeah it's very hard to say who's going to be the better player.
Put rondo on a lottery team and he may better walls stats so ....

[bobbyv]

Wall's season this year isn't even as good as Rondo's season this season. 4 more assists per game means 8 additional points scored by his team. Wall is only averaging a little more than 4 PPG more than Rondo. Then factor in Rondo rebounds more, steals more, and shoots better and that Rondo had to carry this team for most of the beginning of this year and I think Rondo's year this year is much better than Wall's.

Rondo has led the league in assists for three years with over 11 per game. He's led the league in steals. He is a constant double double guy and has been a perennial top 1-3 in the league in triple doubles for years. He's been on the All-Defense team  4 times and been a third team All-NBA.

Sorry, nothing Wall has done in one season has exceeded what Rondo has done for 2-3 of Rondo's seasons.

The thing you're missing is...

Rondo the past few years has been groomed on a team with 3 HOF players. He was brought up in a different environment. Even with them no longer at their prime it still made/makes life easy for Rondo. Sure there is no Allen this year. But Rondo has had MUCH better support than Wall. Lets compare this year with more detailed analysis. Because Wall's team (just guessing) has a better record with him starting than when Rondo started this year with the C's. Now that alone doesnt make Wall better but that lets you know of his impact. Wall isnt in a Derrick Rose like situation where team performs very well WITHOUT him.  Lets look at the #s Per 36 mins. Remember Wall only plays 32 mins this year because they eased him back in off his knee injury.

Wall per 36
20.2 pts 8.5 asts 4.4 bds 1.5stls

Rondo per 36 this year
13.2 pts 10.6 asts 5.4 bds 1.8 stls


Wall's stats are 21/9/5 if he played Rondo's minutes of 37.4 a night (rounded up a few)

Now factor in the fact that Wall is just 22 years old. Lets take a look at 22 year Rondo when he was on a team with the Big 3 while they were younger and better.

22 year old Rondo per 36 mins (he actually played 33 mpg that year)
13/9/6/2....

 vs. Wall's 20/9/4 at 22.

Again, this isnt to say Wall is better than Rondo. He's not. But you have to factor in situation, environment and development. I'm just thankful Wall didnt get drafted by a team like the Pacers or Nets or they'd be even more tough imo. (Yea I'd take Wall over Deron Williams)

I agree that at 22 he's looking better than rondo, although remember that when you include the big 3 as benefits to rondo, also remember he's had less opportunity to score with so many elite scoring options around him...so yeah it's very hard to say who's going to be the better player.
Put rondo on a lottery team and he may better walls stats so ....

Also to be fair to Rondo, Wall's game is pretty much attacking the basket due to his weak jumper. He's also more of a scorer like Rose than Rondo. I think Rondo could average close to 20 a game (like he did in last years playoffs) if he was a first option like Wall is in Washington while keeping the same number of assists and rebounds.

[PhoSita]

Wall's season this year isn't even as good as Rondo's season this season. 4 more assists per game means 8 additional points scored by his team. Wall is only averaging a little more than 4 PPG more than Rondo. Then factor in Rondo rebounds more, steals more, and shoots better and that Rondo had to carry this team for most of the beginning of this year and I think Rondo's year this year is much better than Wall's.

Rondo has led the league in assists for three years with over 11 per game. He's led the league in steals. He is a constant double double guy and has been a perennial top 1-3 in the league in triple doubles for years. He's been on the All-Defense team  4 times and been a third team All-NBA.

Sorry, nothing Wall has done in one season has exceeded what Rondo has done for 2-3 of Rondo's seasons.

I guess my feeling on this is that Wall could average close to 10-11 assists per game if he had teammates who could make buckets.  In fact I think there was a statistical study done a season or two ago that suggested that the main difference in assist total between Rondo and Wall is that Rondo's teammates finish the looks he gives them more often.

I don't think Rondo could ever do what Wall has done this season, especially what he's done in the past month or two.

I know people who defend Rondo at all costs disagree with this notion, but in today's league a point guard who scores 18-25 points a game while still picking up at least 6 or 7 assists and a healthy number of rebounds is much more valuable than a 10-10-2 sort of player, unless the latter is on a team with a handful of top shelf scoring options.

The Celtics would have been better this season with Wall than Rondo, in my opinion, because the Celtics really need a Wall-like athletic scorer more than they need a distributor.  If we were talking about a team like the Clippers or the Spurs or the Grizzlies, I would probably feel differently. 

Also, those who talk about Rondo's edge as a defender over Wall should think back to Rondo's defensive play earlier this season and really question whether that helps their argument all that much.

[nickagneta]

Wall's season this year isn't even as good as Rondo's season this season. 4 more assists per game means 8 additional points scored by his team. Wall is only averaging a little more than 4 PPG more than Rondo. Then factor in Rondo rebounds more, steals more, and shoots better and that Rondo had to carry this team for most of the beginning of this year and I think Rondo's year this year is much better than Wall's.

Rondo has led the league in assists for three years with over 11 per game. He's led the league in steals. He is a constant double double guy and has been a perennial top 1-3 in the league in triple doubles for years. He's been on the All-Defense team  4 times and been a third team All-NBA.

Sorry, nothing Wall has done in one season has exceeded what Rondo has done for 2-3 of Rondo's seasons.

I guess my feeling on this is that Wall could average close to 10-11 assists per game if he had teammates who could make buckets.  In fact I think there was a statistical study done a season or two ago that suggested that the main difference in assist total between Rondo and Wall is that Rondo's teammates finish the looks he gives them more often.

I don't think Rondo could ever do what Wall has done this season, especially what he's done in the past month or two.

I know people who defend Rondo at all costs disagree with this notion, but in today's league a point guard who scores 18-25 points a game while still picking up at least 6 or 7 assists and a healthy number of rebounds is much more valuable than a 10-10-2 sort of player, unless the latter is on a team with a handful of top shelf scoring options.

The Celtics would have been better this season with Wall than Rondo, in my opinion, because the Celtics really need a Wall-like athletic scorer more than they need a distributor.  If we were talking about a team like the Clippers or the Spurs or the Grizzlies, I would probably feel differently. 

Also, those who talk about Rondo's edge as a defender over Wall should think back to Rondo's defensive play earlier this season and really question whether that helps their argument all that much.

Except Rondo isnt 10/10/2. He is 14/11.5/5.5/2.5. And the only reason his PER doesnt go higher is because he doesnt shoot a lot, something that is usually very important to obtaining a PER over 20 if you are a PG.

[BballTim]

Wall's season this year isn't even as good as Rondo's season this season. 4 more assists per game means 8 additional points scored by his team. Wall is only averaging a little more than 4 PPG more than Rondo. Then factor in Rondo rebounds more, steals more, and shoots better and that Rondo had to carry this team for most of the beginning of this year and I think Rondo's year this year is much better than Wall's.

Rondo has led the league in assists for three years with over 11 per game. He's led the league in steals. He is a constant double double guy and has been a perennial top 1-3 in the league in triple doubles for years. He's been on the All-Defense team  4 times and been a third team All-NBA.

Sorry, nothing Wall has done in one season has exceeded what Rondo has done for 2-3 of Rondo's seasons.

I guess my feeling on this is that Wall could average close to 10-11 assists per game if he had teammates who could make buckets.  In fact I think there was a statistical study done a season or two ago that suggested that the main difference in assist total between Rondo and Wall is that Rondo's teammates finish the looks he gives them more often.

  What the study showed was that Rondo's teammates finish the looks he gives them because he's a far superior passer to Wall. The Celts and Wizards finishing rate (off all plays that weren't passes from Rondo or Wall) were close to identical, the Wizards rate went up about 8% when the chances came from passes from Wall, the Celts went up by 20% when the chance came from a pass from Rondo.

I don't think Rondo could ever do what Wall has done this season, especially what he's done in the past month or two.

  I don't see why a player who can average 17/7/12 playing all of his games against top defenses that are focused on their play couldn't average 20/5/8 during a stretch of the regular season.

Also, those who talk about Rondo's edge as a defender over Wall should think back to Rondo's defensive play earlier this season and really question whether that helps their argument all that much.

  According to synergy sports Rondo's 42nd in the league in opponents ppp, Wall is 240th. Good luck with that argument.