Author Topic: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo? (Read 9319 times)

Vermont Green · « **on:** April 07, 2013, 11:30:14 AM »

With John Wall coming to town tonight, I thought it would be a good time to start a thread on him and Rondo. Wall seems to be that new breed of scoring PG; kind of a cross between Rose and Westbrook.

The simple way to pose this is would you trade Rondo for Wall right now, straight up? Do you think the Wiz would view Rondo as an upgrade over Wall?

This question is purely rhetorical of course becasue no way Washington would trade Wall in my opinion, at least not for Rondo. Not sure they would trade him for any other PG.

Consider also that Wall's return has clearly impacted the bottom line (wins and losses) success of the Wiz whereas losing Rondo didn't really change the Celtics W-L,if anything, they played better. So what does this tell you about the two players?

CelticsFan9 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2013, 11:50:00 AM »

I think Rondo is better than Wall.

However, Wall has really impressed me in the games he's played this year. His jump shot is much improved, his defense is superb, and he is REALLY fast. Great quickness and size (the guy is 6'4"!) for a PG.

Before Wall injured his knee in August (?) I had Washington as a playoff team. Their record since Wall has returned is one that is worthy of a playoff spot in the East. Their starting unit of Wall/Beal/Ariza/Nene/Okafor is very good defensively and offensively it's been pretty good.

Expect the Wizards to be in the postseason next year.

zimbo · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2013, 11:59:06 AM »

Quote from: Vermont Green

Consider also that Wall's return has clearly impacted the bottom line (wins and losses) success of the Wiz whereas losing Rondo didn't really change the Celtics W-L,if anything, they played better. So what does this tell you about the two players?

Do you think a healthy Rondo wouldn't have a positive impact on this team right now?

I think Wall is a very good PG and has tools to be among the top 5 (but still ways to go). I do think he is better than Irving (who has been hyped up all year). I expect to see the Wizards in the playoffs (replacing the Buck or Hawks) next year.

Right now, I don't think he is better than Rondo. Next season will show his(Wall) worth.

bobbyv · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2013, 12:05:58 PM »

He's playing great right now, but I'd like to see what he does over a full season. I think Rondo overall is a more complete and better player than him still.

Vermont Green · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2013, 12:12:57 PM »

Quote from: zimbo on April 07, 2013, 11:59:06 AM

Quote from: Vermont Green
Consider also that Wall's return has clearly impacted the bottom line (wins and losses) success of the Wiz whereas losing Rondo didn't really change the Celtics W-L,if anything, they played better. So what does this tell you about the two players?

Do you think a healthy Rondo wouldn't have a positive impact on this team right now?

I personally don't think that a return of a healthy Rondo would have nearly the impact on the Celtics that the return of Wall had on the Wiz. I base this opinion largely on seeing the imapact that losing Rondo had on the team.

KGs Knee · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2013, 12:31:04 PM »

Quote from: Vermont Green on April 07, 2013, 12:12:57 PM

Quote from: zimbo on April 07, 2013, 11:59:06 AM
Quote from: Vermont Green
Consider also that Wall's return has clearly impacted the bottom line (wins and losses) success of the Wiz whereas losing Rondo didn't really change the Celtics W-L,if anything, they played better. So what does this tell you about the two players?

Do you think a healthy Rondo wouldn't have a positive impact on this team right now?

I personally don't think that a return of a healthy Rondo would have nearly the impact on the Celtics that the return of Wall had on the Wiz. I base this opinion largely on seeing the imapact that losing Rondo had on the team.

This is framing the debate in the completely wrong manner. Stating Rondo doesn't have as much of an effect on the Celtics as Wall does on the Wizards is meaningless. The rosters of each team are completely different.

A better way to frame the debate would be to ask which player would effect either team more. Would the Wizards be better with a healthy Rondo as opposed to Wall, or would the Celtics be better with Wall as opposed to Rondo.

Personally, I think Rondo is better, hands down, but Wall has seemed to make great strides this year in becoming a more consistent and complete player. In a year or two it could actually be a close debate.

BigAlTheFuture · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2013, 12:48:16 PM »

Right now, Rondo is better. With that being said, I'd still trade Rondo for Wall. He's really starting to live up to his potential. I expect him to be an All-Star next season.

timobusa · « **Reply #7 on:** April 07, 2013, 12:58:44 PM »

John Wall is WAAAAY better than Rondo, at doing the "dougie" but basketball, nah, Rondo all day.

scaryjerry · « **Reply #8 on:** April 07, 2013, 12:59:48 PM »

Yikes.

Convenient time for a wall argument considering rondo has been out for the season.

Rondo is better, proved and accomplished twice as much in the league.

Vermont Green · « **Reply #9 on:** April 07, 2013, 01:02:24 PM »

Quote from: KGs Knee on April 07, 2013, 12:31:04 PM

Quote from: Vermont Green on April 07, 2013, 12:12:57 PM
Quote from: zimbo on April 07, 2013, 11:59:06 AM
Quote from: Vermont Green
Consider also that Wall's return has clearly impacted the bottom line (wins and losses) success of the Wiz whereas losing Rondo didn't really change the Celtics W-L,if anything, they played better. So what does this tell you about the two players?

Do you think a healthy Rondo wouldn't have a positive impact on this team right now?

I personally don't think that a return of a healthy Rondo would have nearly the impact on the Celtics that the return of Wall had on the Wiz. I base this opinion largely on seeing the imapact that losing Rondo had on the team.

This is framing the debate in the completely wrong manner. Stating Rondo doesn't have as much of an effect on the Celtics as Wall does on the Wizards is meaningless. The rosters of each team are completely different.

A better way to frame the debate would be to ask which player would effect either team more. Would the Wizards be better with a healthy Rondo as opposed to Wall, or would the Celtics be better with Wall as opposed to Rondo.

Personally, I think Rondo is better, hands down, but Wall has seemed to make great strides this year in becoming a more consistent and complete player. In a year or two it could actually be a close debate.

I wasn't framing a debate, I was simply answering a question "Do you think a healthy Rondo wouldn't have a positive impact on this team right now?".

Of course getting any player has a positive impact. Getting Shav Randolph has had a positive impact. I would love to have a healthy Rondo for the playoffs but I don't think it would change things in terms of where we are in the pecking order so much. I think a healthy KG is far more important and can have an impact that would be more similar to the impact Wall had on the Wiz.

All kinds of things play into what a player coming or going does to a team. Most important is how good they are but team depth and other things are factors too.

CelticConcourse · « **Reply #10 on:** April 07, 2013, 01:32:51 PM »

John Wall is able to single-handedly turn the Wizards into a playoff team. They're 18-4 at home when he plays. That's amazing and he's a very underrated player. Some still say he's a bust

zimbo · « **Reply #11 on:** April 07, 2013, 01:35:30 PM »

Quote from: Vermont Green on April 07, 2013, 01:02:24 PM

Quote from: KGs Knee on April 07, 2013, 12:31:04 PM
Quote from: Vermont Green on April 07, 2013, 12:12:57 PM
Quote from: zimbo on April 07, 2013, 11:59:06 AM
Quote from: Vermont Green
Consider also that Wall's return has clearly impacted the bottom line (wins and losses) success of the Wiz whereas losing Rondo didn't really change the Celtics W-L,if anything, they played better. So what does this tell you about the two players?

Do you think a healthy Rondo wouldn't have a positive impact on this team right now?

I personally don't think that a return of a healthy Rondo would have nearly the impact on the Celtics that the return of Wall had on the Wiz. I base this opinion largely on seeing the imapact that losing Rondo had on the team.

This is framing the debate in the completely wrong manner. Stating Rondo doesn't have as much of an effect on the Celtics as Wall does on the Wizards is meaningless. The rosters of each team are completely different.

A better way to frame the debate would be to ask which player would effect either team more. Would the Wizards be better with a healthy Rondo as opposed to Wall, or would the Celtics be better with Wall as opposed to Rondo.

Personally, I think Rondo is better, hands down, but Wall has seemed to make great strides this year in becoming a more consistent and complete player. In a year or two it could actually be a close debate.
I wasn't framing a debate, I was simply answering a question "Do you think a healthy Rondo wouldn't have a positive impact on this team right now?".

Of course getting any player has a positive impact.

That is not true. Some players might have a negative impact or no impact as you claim Rondo has had.

BballTim · « **Reply #12 on:** April 07, 2013, 02:18:46 PM »

Quote from: Vermont Green on April 07, 2013, 11:30:14 AM

Consider also that Wall's return has clearly impacted the bottom line (wins and losses) success of the Wiz whereas losing Rondo didn't really change the Celtics W-L,if anything, they played better. So what does this tell you about the two players?

I think it says more about your method of evaluating players than it does about Rondo and Wall. Is losing Rondo the only difference that you noticed between our play in Dec/Jan and Feb/Mar? How about the play of Pierce and Terry? How about the play of Green? How about the play of the defense, especially when KG was off the court? What impact did all of those factors have on our record? How would the team look with Rondo if he had all of those players playing well and a strong defense most nights?

In the 11-12 season the team also got off to a poor start, mainly because PP and KG were playing like below average players (although JO was hardly blameless). KG and PP began playing better when Rondo was out with an injury for a couple of weeks and the team went on a run. Did the team improving while Rondo was out mean that they wouldn't play like a top team *with* Rondo later that season? Clearly not. Did the team playing better with Rondo on the bench mean that he wouldn't play like a star in the playoffs and lead a depleted team to within a game of the finals? Clearly not.

In the grand scheme of things, what did the team playing better with Rondo out last year say about him? What leads you to believe that this year is any different?

sofutomygaha · « **Reply #13 on:** April 07, 2013, 02:32:02 PM »

Wall is about to become a max player, so the question is moot. Rondo is clearly more valuable on his present contract.

It would be really hard to gamble on the upside of a potential superstar who hasn't done anything yet against an all-star in his prime who is also a known quantity. I'm not saying Wall can't be better than Rondo, but no serious person is taking that bet at even odds.

Atzar · « **Reply #14 on:** April 07, 2013, 02:32:28 PM »

Among PG's, I have Rondo ranked 3-5. I have Wall ranked around 11-13.

Rondo is much better at this point, but Wall is playing well right now and has a very high ceiling.

Author Topic: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo? (Read 9319 times)

How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

Vermont Green

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

CelticsFan9

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

zimbo

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

bobbyv

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

Vermont Green

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

KGs Knee

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

BigAlTheFuture

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

timobusa

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

scaryjerry

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

Vermont Green

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

CelticConcourse

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

zimbo

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

BballTim

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

sofutomygaha

Re: How Good is John Wall? Better than Rondo?

Atzar

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