Author Topic: Offseason blowup scenario, trading KG and PP (Read 6782 times)

connor · « **on:** April 07, 2013, 09:52:53 AM »

Please do not respond to this thread with "I don't want to trade either", "I'd trade KG for KG". "I don't want to trade the Captain" etc. etc. This is just a FUN "what if" scenario. It is NOT a topic to discuss whether we should or shouldn't blow it up. Just assume the decision has been made and now you are just trying to get the best return possible.

I think the Celtics seriously need to consider all of their options this offseason and decide how this team is going to proceed going forward. Even with Rondo and Sully coming back I don't know how we will be able to get through four 7 game series to win a champtionship. It just seems like they would take too much out of us to be able to beat the Heat and then whoever is coming out of the west. And on top of that it'll be a miracle if we manage to make it to the playoffs with our roster intact. KG and PP will be a year older, Rondo just coming off of knee surgery, Sully's got a back issue, Bradley has suffered some major injuries and Terry is just plain old as well.

I'm not saying we can't do it, but it doesn't seem all that likely. I'm warming to the idea of trading for some young assets while we still can (especially since I'm not sure how many stars will choose to come here in FA).

So assuming we go to KG and say we want to blow it up will you let us trade you to a legit contender and he says yes: What realistic and specific trades would you make for KG and PP?

connor · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2013, 10:01:24 AM »

Realistically I think there is only one location we could send KG and that is to the Clippers. I'm not too interested in Bledsoe or Jordan, but I think if a third team is involved they could be the trading chips that net the Celtics a great return:

Boston receive:
Demarcus Cousins, Isaiah Thomas and John Salmons

Clippers receive:
Kevin Garnett, Fab Melo, Jordan Crawford, 2013 first from Celtics

Kings Receive:
Eric Bledsoe, Deandre Jordan

OR

Boston receive:
Cousins, Caron Butler, Isaiah Thomas

Clippers receive:
KG

Kings receive:
Bledsoe, Fab Melo, Clippers 2013 and 2014first rounders and Celtics 2013 first rounder.

The Celtics move KG for a 20/10 guy in Cousins who comes with baggage, but thats the only reason he's available anyway. Along with Cousins they bring in a young promising pg to help run the point until Rondo is back (would also take Jimmer instead). Plus salary filler in Salmons or Butler depending on the scenario. Adding DMC nets the Celtics the inside presence they've been without for far too long and gets them much younger.

Adding KG makes the Clips one of the most dangerous teams in the West. I think if KG picked up the phone and told Chris Paul that he wanted to play together and win a championship, Paul would make that deal get done. This year they balked at moving Deandre Jordan, but I think they are going to really feel the impact of his limitations come the playoffs when he can't even be on the floor in the fourth quarter and will be willing to deal his 10m contract. Sweetening the deal with Melo, Crawford and pick should put it over the top (I even think the pick might be too much). Otherwise, if they are still intent on keeping Jordan, they should be willing to include their next 2 first, which should be late picks anyway, in order to bring in KG.

The Kings have considered moving Cousins for much less on several occasions. This is a solid return for DMC. With Bledsoe and Jordan as their new C/PG combo they've got a decent lineup already. Add in their lottery pick and they are a good young team. If they don't get Jordan, picking up 3 firsts is a nice consolation prize, especially since they're so cheap and they get their PG of the future.

Other options I would consider: flipping Bledsoe in a sign and trade (if the Celtics are far enough under the apron to do so) for Millsap or Jefferson and keeping the picks from LA or KG straight up to the Spurs for a package involving Kawhi Leonard.

connor · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2013, 10:08:53 AM »

I think Golden State makes the most sense on several levels for Pierce. We'd still be doing right by Paul by sending him back to California and to a contender and they have enough bad contracts and young assets to make a deal work.

Boston Receive:
Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, Richard Jefferson and Andris Biedrins

Warriors Receive:
Paul Pierce and Courtney Lee

Boston gets the former 7th overall pick in Barnes who has shown some promise in his first year in the NBA and could eventually develop into an All-Star SF. They have to take on the expiring contracts/reclamation projects of Biedrins and Jefferson in exchange, but Biedrins once was a 10/10 guy, and his size (7 footer) makes him valuable to the Celtics despite the numbers. Jefferson is a solid vet who could either be a steady veteran presence or amnestied for the 10m cap space. Ezeli would probably be a sticking point for the Warriors, but if I were the Celtics I'd push for him to be included as a guy to develop.

They've just become relevant again and Pierce would make the Warriors very dangerous out West and immediately improve their team. Pierce adds consistent scoring and strong overall play as well as veteran leadership. Giving up Barnes is tough, but a 19m salary dump of Biedrins and Jefferson is a huge and they get an All-Star in Pierce. Plus they will lose Jack and Landry this summer when they opt out and they won't be able to replace that production for similar money so the upgrade SF is big. Courtney Lee's versatility and defense will fill a big hole for decent money. I'd be surprised if they included Ezeli, but if they decide to go into win now mode they might be willing.

For the Warriors the deal all depends on how patient they are willing to be. It is a tough sell to pull off since the they could just wait until that 19m comes off the books and use it to go after a big name and still retain Barnes, but if I'm the Warriors I'm done waiting. I want to win now and when Pierce comes off the books they still have the money to chase a big name free agent.

Other deals I would consider for Pierce: Klay Thompson from the Warriors, but I would definitely want Ezeli included. Sign and trade (if possible) with Utah for Millsap or Jefferson (PP is a huge upgrade over Mo Williams). The highest pick possible in the first round (preferably lottery guaranteed) and filler. Or some deal that nets us Josh Smith (at less than the max) in a Mavs-Atlanta type deal or Atlanta straight up if they are so inclined.

If you combine the two trades I mention our roster looks like:

Cousins, Biedrins (Ezeli?)
Sullinger, Bass, Randolph
Green, Barnes, Salmons (Jefferson if not amnestied)
Bradley, Terry
Rondo, Thomas, Williams

Young, talented, fairly deep, and fun to watch.

chambers · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2013, 10:25:00 AM »

Quote from: connor on April 07, 2013, 10:08:53 AM

I think Golden State makes the most sense on several levels for Pierce. We'd still be doing right by Paul by sending him back to California and to a contender and they have enough bad contracts and young assets to make a deal work.

Boston Receive:
Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, Richard Jefferson and Andris Biedrins

Warriors Receive:
Paul Pierce and Courtney Lee

Boston gets the former 7th overall pick in Barnes who has shown some promise in his first year in the NBA and could eventually develop into an All-Star SF. They have to take on the expiring contracts/reclamation projects of Biedrins and Jefferson in exchange, but Biedrins once was a 10/10 guy, and his size (7 footer) makes him valuable to the Celtics despite the numbers. Jefferson is a solid vet who could either be a steady veteran presence or amnestied for the 10m cap space. Ezeli would probably be a sticking point for the Warriors, but if I were the Celtics I'd push for him to be included as a guy to develop.

They've just become relevant again and Pierce would make the Warriors very dangerous out West and immediately improve their team. Pierce adds consistent scoring and strong overall play as well as veteran leadership. Giving up Barnes is tough, but a 19m salary dump of Biedrins and Jefferson is a huge and they get an All-Star in Pierce. Plus they will lose Jack and Landry this summer when they opt out and they won't be able to replace that production for similar money so the upgrade SF is big. Courtney Lee's versatility and defense will fill a big hole for decent money. I'd be surprised if they included Ezeli, but if they decide to go into win now mode they might be willing.

For the Warriors the deal all depends on how patient they are willing to be. It is a tough sell to pull off since the they could just wait until that 19m comes off the books and use it to go after a big name and still retain Barnes, but if I'm the Warriors I'm done waiting. I want to win now and when Pierce comes off the books they still have the money to chase a big name free agent.

Other deals I would consider for Pierce: Klay Thompson from the Warriors, but I would definitely want Ezeli included. Sign and trade (if possible) with Utah for Millsap or Jefferson (PP is a huge upgrade over Mo Williams). The highest pick possible in the first round (preferably lottery guaranteed) and filler. Or some deal that nets us Josh Smith (at less than the max) in a Mavs-Atlanta type deal or Atlanta straight up if they are so inclined.

If you combine the two trades I mention our roster looks like:

Cousins, Biedrins (Ezeli?)
Sullinger, Bass, Randolph
Green, Barnes, Salmons (Jefferson if not amnestied)
Bradley, Terry
Rondo, Thomas, Williams

Young, talented, fairly deep, and fun to watch.

I like the idea but there's zero chance of getting Barnes from GSW. He's got a good 7 years there if things work. Pierce has 1 or 2 left in him at most. They just wouldn't consider it.

Best option for us with Pierce is to send him to the Clippers with KG. They'd have to clear room but Bledsloe, Jordan, Crawford, fillers (ie Barnes or Odom) and 2 first round picks is somewhat realistic.(Unless I'm way off with the salaries/money on Clippers side)
Clippers with KG,Griffin, Pierce, Chauncey and Chris Paul are a dynamite team that could go for a nice 2-3 year run in the West.

I do like the first idea of KG for Demarcus Cousins and the 3 way Clippers/Kings trade.

Other than that I can't see anywhere else for Pierce.
Perhaps send KG and Pierce to Chicago for their Bobcats lottery pick,Boozer and Luol Deng?

KGs Knee · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2013, 10:39:17 AM »

Good luck trading KG during the off-season. What makes you think he would waive his no-trade clause?

Even if Pierce is traded/waived, KG would likely just retire. The only scenario in which I can see KG actually get traded, would be if he came back for next season, but the C's ended up sucking. Maybe by the trade deadline he'd finally be willing to accept a trade.

BballTim · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2013, 10:47:41 AM »

Quote from: connor on April 07, 2013, 09:52:53 AM

I think the Celtics seriously need to consider all of their options this offseason and decide how this team is going to proceed going forward. Even with Rondo and Sully coming back I don't know how we will be able to get through four 7 game series to win a champtionship. It just seems like they would take too much out of us to be able to beat the Heat and then whoever is coming out of the west. And on top of that it'll be a miracle if we manage to make it to the playoffs with our roster intact. KG and PP will be a year older, Rondo just coming off of knee surgery, Sully's got a back issue, Bradley has suffered some major injuries and Terry is just plain old as well.

Not to spoil your thread but if RR and Sully come back healthy and Sully and Green are playing like Green is and Sully was before he got injured then RR/PP/Green/Sully/KG would be a formidable starting lineup.

SHAQATTACK · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2013, 10:55:30 AM »

Quote from: connor on April 07, 2013, 09:52:53 AM

Please do not respond to this thread with "I don't want to trade either", "I'd trade KG for KG". "I don't want to trade the Captain" etc. etc. This is just a FUN "what if" scenario. It is NOT a topic to discuss whether we should or shouldn't blow it up. Just assume the decision has been made and now you are just trying to get the best return possible.

I think the Celtics seriously need to consider all of their options this offseason and decide how this team is going to proceed going forward. Even with Rondo and Sully coming back I don't know how we will be able to get through four 7 game series to win a champtionship. It just seems like they would take too much out of us to be able to beat the Heat and then whoever is coming out of the west. And on top of that it'll be a miracle if we manage to make it to the playoffs with our roster intact. KG and PP will be a year older, Rondo just coming off of knee surgery, Sully's got a back issue, Bradley has suffered some major injuries and Terry is just plain old as well.

I'm not saying we can't do it, but it doesn't seem all that likely. I'm warming to the idea of trading for some young assets while we still can (especially since I'm not sure how many stars will choose to come here in FA).

So assuming we go to KG and say we want to blow it up will you let us trade you to a legit contender and he says yes: What realistic and specific trades would you make for KG and PP?

there are no realistic options , to do so would be very foolish

I would trade neither , KG will not want to be traded, BOTH guys care about their legacy , and that means staying at Boston to complete their careers.

Teenie fantasy over.

boscel33 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 07, 2013, 11:18:42 AM »

i think the offseason blow up scenario revolves more around trading rondo than it does these two. i don't know where or for what, but that's who i believe is gone. then, in the draft, a caldwell or a hardaway to play sg and bradley moves permanently to pg.

bobbyv · « **Reply #8 on:** April 07, 2013, 12:09:00 PM »

Quote from: boscel33 on April 07, 2013, 11:18:42 AM

i think the offseason blow up scenario revolves more around trading rondo than it does these two. i don't know where or for what, but that's who i believe is gone. then, in the draft, a caldwell or a hardaway to play sg and bradley moves permanently to pg.

Avery Bradley is not a PG.

connor · « **Reply #9 on:** April 07, 2013, 12:10:18 PM »

Quote from: KGs Knee on April 07, 2013, 10:39:17 AM

Good luck trading KG during the off-season. What makes you think he would waive his no-trade clause?

Even if Pierce is traded/waived, KG would likely just retire. The only scenario in which I can see KG actually get traded, would be if he came back for next season, but the C's ended up sucking. Maybe by the trade deadline he'd finally be willing to accept a trade.

I don't have anything that makes me think KG would wave his no-trade clause. I'm dealing in purely hypotheticals just for the sake of it. But if Danny was in talks with the Clippers for so long, obviously he thought there might be a chance. Maybe getting swept in this year's playoffs would make him think about it.

Quote from: SHAQATTACK on April 07, 2013, 10:55:30 AM

I would trade neither , KG will not want to be traded, BOTH guys care about their legacy , and that means staying at Boston to complete their careers.

Teenie fantasy over.

Specifically asked people not to post answers like this. Please actually read the topic of the thread before posting in the future, thanks.

Quote from: BballTim on April 07, 2013, 10:47:41 AM

Not to spoil your thread but if RR and Sully come back healthy and Sully and Green are playing like Green is and Sully was before he got injured then RR/PP/Green/Sully/KG would be a formidable starting lineup.

Completely agree that that would be a very formidable starting lineup, but will they all be there come playoff time? PP and KG both are defying the odds playing this well at this age and either could easily break down at any time. Sully's back issue could be a recurring thing. I don't think we are going to make any major moves this offseason and I'm excited to see our squad back at full strength, but I just don't see them all making it to the finish line. And if KG or PP go down our chances of beating the heat and a team from the west to win it all decrease dramatically.

connor · « **Reply #10 on:** April 07, 2013, 12:22:01 PM »

Quote from: chambers on April 07, 2013, 10:25:00 AM

I like the idea but there's zero chance of getting Barnes from GSW. He's got a good 7 years there if things work. Pierce has 1 or 2 left in him at most. They just wouldn't consider it.

Best option for us with Pierce is to send him to the Clippers with KG. They'd have to clear room but Bledsloe, Jordan, Crawford, fillers (ie Barnes or Odom) and 2 first round picks is somewhat realistic.(Unless I'm way off with the salaries/money on Clippers side)
Clippers with KG,Griffin, Pierce, Chauncey and Chris Paul are a dynamite team that could go for a nice 2-3 year run in the West.

I do like the first idea of KG for Demarcus Cousins and the 3 way Clippers/Kings trade.

Other than that I can't see anywhere else for Pierce.
Perhaps send KG and Pierce to Chicago for their Bobcats lottery pick,Boozer and Luol Deng?

I think the likely hood of the Warrior's trade is very low, but it was one of the rumors that was out there around the trade deadline so I don't think its totally out of the question. Mostly it was Klay Thompson for Pierce with the Celtics taking on one of the two bad contracts mentioned. And my logic was that if the Celtics were to take on both of the bad contracts and include a replacement for one of the key cogs they are losing this offseason with Lee theres a chance (admittedly small) that a Warrior team in "win-now mode" would be willing to take a chance.

KG for Cousins is the real winner in terms of the two. I don't think Pierce's value isas high unless a team needs to replace an injury or is going for broke.

I think a more realistic scenario would be Pierce going for a pick and filler or to a team with their eyes set on a 2014 FA that wants to move salary now and find Pierce's 16m contract appealing enough to give up value.

As for Chicago, I don't know if Danny would be willing to trade our two HOF's to Chicago to watch them demolish us. It'd be pretty upsetting watching them and D-Rose dominate the Celtics.

Evantime34 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 07, 2013, 12:30:07 PM »

I think the only way Kg and Pierce are traded, is if they decided to retire. They could wait to file their paperwork with the league and a team trying to create cap space could send us back an unwanted contract as well as a young player or a draft pick.

gar · « **Reply #12 on:** April 07, 2013, 12:40:30 PM »

no trades at this point. should be clear after last season. diminishing returns, plus KG would not allow it.

boscel33 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 09, 2013, 09:29:31 AM »

Quote from: bobbyv on April 07, 2013, 12:09:00 PM

Quote from: boscel33 on April 07, 2013, 11:18:42 AM
i think the offseason blow up scenario revolves more around trading rondo than it does these two. i don't know where or for what, but that's who i believe is gone. then, in the draft, a caldwell or a hardaway to play sg and bradley moves permanently to pg.

Avery Bradley is not a PG.

Seems to be playing an awful lot of PG right now and is listed as a PG on numerous sites. Is he a natural PG, no, but neither was Chauncy Billups.

dark_lord · « **Reply #14 on:** April 09, 2013, 09:33:56 AM »

i wouldn't trade either one. i think if rondo comes back the same player, as well as sully (with room to further develop his game), along with jeff green playing at his current level consistently......that pp and kg are great fit with them. not to mention kg's no trade clause, along with my personal desire to see pp retire a celtic.

pp,kg,rondo,green,sully,bradley,lee.....i like that core, if everything pans out the way i hope.

Author Topic: Offseason blowup scenario, trading KG and PP (Read 6782 times)

Offseason blowup scenario, trading KG and PP

connor

Re: Offseason blowup scenario, trading KG and PP

connor

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connor

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chambers

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KGs Knee

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BballTim

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SHAQATTACK

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boscel33

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bobbyv

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connor

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connor

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Evantime34

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gar

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boscel33

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dark_lord

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