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Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« on: April 02, 2013, 11:00:45 AM »

Offline thenotoriousjts

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I've realized that my biases as a Celtics fan have influenced my expectations for this team a bit too much. Let's look at this kind of situation through another lens.
This can apply to any team, but I'll use the Hawks, because why not. Lou Williams is already out for them, right? Let's say Smith and Horford suddenly go down with injuries. A week later, Korver goes down, too. Would we really expect this Hawks team to win many ball games? Sure, they have some talent left over but not much to work with.
Why can't we look at the Celtics with this mentality? 4 out of our 5 starters are currently hurt, our most clutch shooter jumped ship to play for the Heat and Barbosa went down too. Can we really realistically expect this team to cruise to be a top 4 or 5 team in the east like this? You can blame Doc and you can blame the lack of effort if you want but if you're looking for answers, it really is the injuries. If it was any other team that was this beat up you all would say "Yeah, those guys are toast".

Edit: I know, typos typos typos. I'm sick as a dog, cut me some slack.
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 11:12:44 AM »

Offline clover

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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 11:16:55 AM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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Quote from: thenotoriousjts on April 02, 2013, 11:00:45 AM
I've realized that my biases as a Celtics fan have influenced my expectations for this team a bit too much. Let's look at this kind of situation through another lens.
This can apply to any team, but I'll use the Hawks, because why not. Lou Williams is already out for them, right? Let's say Smith and Horford suddenly go down with injuries. A week later, Korver goes down, too. Would we really expect this Hawks team to win many ball games? Sure, they have some talent left over but not much to work with.
Why can't we look at the Celtics with this mentality? 4 out of our 5 starters are currently hurt, our most clutch shooter jumped ship to play for the Heat and Barbosa went down too. Can we really realistically expect this team to cruise to be a top 4 or 5 team in the east like this? You can blame Doc and you can blame the lack of effort if you want but if you're looking for answers, it really is the injuries. If it was any other team that was this beat up you all would say "Yeah, those guys are toast".

Edit: I know, typos typos typos. I'm sick as a dog, cut me some slack.

I think you're right—though I'm still tempted to say, "But come on, these guys are professionals! Even the third-stringers should be able to play fundamentally sound defense." But that's probably just my perfectionist nature.

I know that I hold these guys to too high a standard and am too hard on them and too cynical about them, and I try to not be, but it's hard for me.

I don't know. Yeah, they're missing 4 starters, which should significantly lower my expectations, but a lot of this team's problems are still present even when those starters are there (committing lots of turnovers, settling for too many outside shots, giving up too many offensive rebounds).

As you can see, I'm bipolar about these guys.
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2013, 11:52:43 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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The lineup of guys not playing is better than the lineup of guys playing.  That's a recipe for losses.

Most of our bench is made up of guys who couldn't get a job in the NBA at the start of this season.

Even with Pierce playing, our current team without Rondo, KG, or Sullinger would win maybe 25 games over the course of a full season.
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, 11:54:53 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Quote from: rocknrollforyoursoul on April 02, 2013, 11:16:55 AM
Quote from: thenotoriousjts on April 02, 2013, 11:00:45 AM
I've realized that my biases as a Celtics fan have influenced my expectations for this team a bit too much. Let's look at this kind of situation through another lens.
This can apply to any team, but I'll use the Hawks, because why not. Lou Williams is already out for them, right? Let's say Smith and Horford suddenly go down with injuries. A week later, Korver goes down, too. Would we really expect this Hawks team to win many ball games? Sure, they have some talent left over but not much to work with.
Why can't we look at the Celtics with this mentality? 4 out of our 5 starters are currently hurt, our most clutch shooter jumped ship to play for the Heat and Barbosa went down too. Can we really realistically expect this team to cruise to be a top 4 or 5 team in the east like this? You can blame Doc and you can blame the lack of effort if you want but if you're looking for answers, it really is the injuries. If it was any other team that was this beat up you all would say "Yeah, those guys are toast".

Edit: I know, typos typos typos. I'm sick as a dog, cut me some slack.

I think you're right—though I'm still tempted to say, "But come on, these guys are professionals! Even the third-stringers should be able to play fundamentally sound defense." But that's probably just my perfectionist nature.

  It took the guys playing regular minutes most of 2 months to figure out how to play good defense together.
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2013, 12:21:21 PM »

Offline quidinqui33

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I was just looking at the standings today and despite how up and down this season has been, we are only 4 games out of 4th place in the conference (imagine where we would be if healthy).  Which makes me believe, that yes, as fans of this team, we are too hard on our own guys sometimes. 

I am guessing fans of the the bulls, nets, and hawks all have the same frustrations as well.

Look at what we have dealt with though.  Other than Pierce, KG and Rondo, essentially a completely new roster at the beggining of the year.  Bringing back three guys from season ending injuries last year (two open hearts and one double shoulder!!!).  In season-ending injuries to Rondo, Sullinger, and Barbosa (all key rotation guys and one our main man).  And now we are bringing in four new guys, with three of them playing in china a little less than a month ago.  And finally KG sitting the past few weeks.

Yes, agreed, everybody needs to cut this team some slack.  As long as this team plays hard enough to hold onto that 7 seed, and the team is not lieing about the KG injury, you know this team will make us proud in the playoffs and will go down swinging.  They always have.
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2013, 12:26:33 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Wait, what? I thought all we needed to be a great defensive team was Bradley? Wasn't he inspiring everyone to play great d and his overall presence was causing teams fits on offense a few months ago? What happened?
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2013, 12:43:45 PM »

Offline blink

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Quote from: PhoSita on April 02, 2013, 11:52:43 AM
The lineup of guys not playing is better than the lineup of guys playing.  That's a recipe for losses.

Most of our bench is made up of guys who couldn't get a job in the NBA at the start of this season.

Even with Pierce playing, our current team without Rondo, KG, or Sullinger would win maybe 25 games over the course of a full season.

I honestly think it might be worse than 25 wins.  Who do you have left? Avery, C Lee, Green, Bass, Jet and maybe wilcox.   

Without Rondo, KG, PP, Sully, and LB we just lost way too much talent to really even be competitive.  I agree with the OP thoughts.  A credit to our guys that we are still being competitive.
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2013, 12:59:21 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm confused, Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo I get, but who is this mystery 4th starter that is out?
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2013, 01:02:11 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Quote from: Moranis on April 02, 2013, 12:59:21 PM
I'm confused, Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo I get, but who is this mystery 4th starter that is out?

Sullinger?
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2013, 01:03:12 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Quote from: Rondo2287 on April 02, 2013, 01:02:11 PM
Quote from: Moranis on April 02, 2013, 12:59:21 PM
I'm confused, Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo I get, but who is this mystery 4th starter that is out?

Sullinger?
Has to be who he meant, but to call Sullinger a starter is kind of silly.

EDIT: Plus, KG and PP have only missed a few games.  It isn't like they were out most of the year.
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2013, 01:06:47 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Quote from: Moranis on April 02, 2013, 01:03:12 PM
Quote from: Rondo2287 on April 02, 2013, 01:02:11 PM
Quote from: Moranis on April 02, 2013, 12:59:21 PM
I'm confused, Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo I get, but who is this mystery 4th starter that is out?

Sullinger?
Has to be who he meant, but to call Sullinger a starter is kind of silly.

EDIT: Plus, KG and PP have only missed a few games.  It isn't like they were out most of the year.

Im thinking if you add up the Bradley, Courtney Lee, and Sullinger injuries you have the equivalent of missing 1 starter.  Since they have all started games for us at some point this year.
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2013, 01:07:26 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Quote from: Moranis on April 02, 2013, 01:03:12 PM
Quote from: Rondo2287 on April 02, 2013, 01:02:11 PM
Quote from: Moranis on April 02, 2013, 12:59:21 PM
I'm confused, Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo I get, but who is this mystery 4th starter that is out?

Sullinger?
Has to be who he meant, but to call Sullinger a starter is kind of silly.

No, it's not.

Sullinger had earned the starting role before he went out.  Doc had acknowledged he was too good not to start. 

Whether or not you think of him as a starter, Sullinger was one of the 5 best players on the team (Pierce, Rondo, KG, Green being the others).

Then you have to add to the equation that the 6th best player, Bradley, was out for most of the first half of the season.
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2013, 01:12:19 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote from: hpantazo on April 02, 2013, 12:26:33 PM
Wait, what? I thought all we needed to be a great defensive team was Bradley? Wasn't he inspiring everyone to play great d and his overall presence was causing teams fits on offense a few months ago? What happened?

KG's injury?

I don't care how good your SG is defensively.  If there aren't legit bigs to defend the interior, your team is going to struggle on D.
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Re: Look at the current situation with a clear mind
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2013, 01:14:21 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Quote from: PhoSita on April 02, 2013, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Moranis on April 02, 2013, 01:03:12 PM
Quote from: Rondo2287 on April 02, 2013, 01:02:11 PM
Quote from: Moranis on April 02, 2013, 12:59:21 PM
I'm confused, Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo I get, but who is this mystery 4th starter that is out?

Sullinger?
Has to be who he meant, but to call Sullinger a starter is kind of silly.

No, it's not.

Sullinger had earned the starting role before he went out.  Doc had acknowledged he was too good not to start. 

Whether or not you think of him as a starter, Sullinger was one of the 5 best players on the team (Pierce, Rondo, KG, Green being the others).

Then you have to add to the equation that the 6th best player, Bradley, was out for most of the first half of the season.
He started 5 of 45 games and the 5 starts were not the last 5 games before he got hurt (just the last 2).  Sullinger was not a starter. 
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